Was Terry Bevington a better manager than Robin Ventura?

[GreenSox]

Um, talent? How is that not obvious.

Yep.

[Greg Hibbard]

Yep.

 

Except we just proved that the talent in '97 performed worse then he talent in '16 and still won more games. So what gives?

[southsider2k5]

Except we just proved that the talent in '97 performed worse then he talent in '16 and still won more games. So what gives?

 

Except you are the only one who believes that.

[Two-Gun Pete]

I tend to agree that talent wins above all else.

 

That said, whether [as a manager] you have the 1927 Yankees, or the 2016 White Sox, a good manager knows how to maximize whatever talent he's given. [or at a minimum, LEARNS how to do so]

 

Just this year:

 

The desiccated remains Jimmy Rollins as DH this year? Yep, RV gave that to us.

Using Rollins' and his craptacular .483 OPS vs RHP over and over again? Yep, we saw that, too.

Keeping Abreu "locked in" at 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in the lineup while his .657 OPS held up the entire lineup early on this season? Check.

How about Matt Albers as a high-leverage reliever? I bet you guys loved that, too.

 

And we could go on and on with mind-numbing idiocy by a guy who supposedly "knows the game," yet has made little to no improvement as a manager over his tenure.

 

 

Again, I AGREE that RV needed better players in the roster. But, the superior managerial mind uses whatever players he has to better effect. Have we seen that with RV here? I'm not too sure.

 

In any case, Bevington may have been the worse manager, but the comparison between he and RV is much closer than you think.

[greg775]

The desiccated remains Jimmy Rollins as DH this year? Yep, RV gave that to us.

Using Rollins' and his craptacular .483 OPS vs RHP over and over again? Yep, we saw that, too.

Keeping Abreu "locked in" at 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in the lineup while his .657 OPS held up the entire lineup early on this season? Check.

How about Matt Albers as a high-leverage reliever? I bet you guys loved that, too.

 

And we could go on and on with mind-numbing idiocy by a guy who supposedly "knows the game," yet has made little to no improvement as a manager over his tenure.

 

 

Again, I AGREE that RV needed better players in the roster. But, the superior managerial mind uses whatever players he has to better effect. Have we seen that with RV here? I'm not too sure.

 

In any case, Bevington may have been the worse manager, but the comparison between he and RV is much closer than you think.

Thing is, Robin wasn't the only guy who was excited about Rollins. Once again our people got fooled by spring training as if it means anything. He hit over .300 and Hawk was going crazy about Rollins and the Hall of Fame, etc. It actually looked like a reasonable acquisition to replace Lexi. He also was getting credit for our fast start cause of his experience and clubhouse presence. Same with Albers. Albers had that good first month as well.

The only guy everybody gave up on early was Danks.

Yeah, batting Abreu where he did was dumb and Rollins should have been ninth every game but again, bevington was so bad he was the embarrassment of baseball. I feel Robin actually knows the game and right now might be a good choice for some other team. Hell, he's now got experience.But he has to go. His Sox teams need to learn how to win. You'd think they had exorcised all demons at 23-10 but nooooooooo.

Again, I'm not a supporter. I give Robin a 3 out of 10 for his body of work with the Sox. A 3 for this season as well.

[Two-Gun Pete]

Thing is, Robin wasn't the only guy who was excited about Rollins.

 

Same with Albers. Albers had that good first month as well.

 

Yeah, batting Abreu where he did was dumb and Rollins should have been ninth every game but again,

 

There's this phenomenon of "stimulus-response" in most living organisms, including human beings.

 

What is amazing to me is that Ventura's response to the "stimulus" of Rollins sucking out loud at baseball was to do exactly jack and s!_t about it. His response to the stimulus of Abreu holding the entire team hostage was to do jack and s!_t about it. How much "stimulus" does a reasonable person really NEED, before he takes action about some of these things? 40 PA? 80 PA? 200 PA? A whole wasted year?

 

Honestly, I wonder if Robin Ventura can read the results of his players' games, and then take the appropriate action to fix matters, whether it would be to bench a guy, platoon a guy, or adjust his spot up or down in the lineup. [And yes, a manager can do this with the Steroid Era Yankees, just as much as with this year's White Sox.] It takes ZERO PLAYER TALENT to make good decisions to get the best out of any team, whether talented or not.

 

 

 

bevington was so bad he was the embarrassment of baseball. I feel Robin actually knows the game and right now might be a good choice for some other team. Hell, he's now got experience.

As a fan of this team, I get embarrassed watching stupid bunts, bad lineup construction, an abject lack of command and control over his clubhouse, poor understanding of bullpen leverage, and other managerial failures all leading to a cavalcade of craptacular performances year after year. That aside, if in fact Robin "knows the game," he has a poor way to demonstrate his knowledge. If he had any integrity about himself, he would have resigned at least a year ago.

 

Insofar as his so-called "experience," I'll agree that KW set him up to fail by hiring him in the first place. But, one would anticipate that Ventura would have made some degree of improvement in his duties as manager. I struggle to think of one area in which Ventura has improved. His lineups lack imagination and understanding, his best players run roughshod over him. So exactly how has "experience" taught Ventura anything? How has he gotten any better at his job?

 

 

Ventura was one of my favorite SOX players of all time, but it was moronic to hire him and to retain him. He's a joke of a manager and honestly, a coward to not resign.

[greg775]

As a fan of this team, I get embarrassed watching stupid bunts, bad lineup construction, an abject lack of command and control over his clubhouse, poor understanding of bullpen leverage, and other managerial failures all leading to a cavalcade of craptacular performances year after year. That aside, if in fact Robin "knows the game," he has a poor way to demonstrate his knowledge. If he had any integrity about himself, he would have resigned at least a year ago.

 

Insofar as his so-called "experience," I'll agree that KW set him up to fail by hiring him in the first place. But, one would anticipate that Ventura would have made some degree of improvement in his duties as manager. I struggle to think of one area in which Ventura has improved. His lineups lack imagination and understanding, his best players run roughshod over him. So exactly how has "experience" taught Ventura anything? How has he gotten any better at his job?

 

 

Ventura was one of my favorite SOX players of all time, but it was moronic to hire him and to retain him. He's a joke of a manager and honestly, a coward to not resign.

Great post. First regarding the Rollins stimulus. That was difficult because the Sox were winning big despite him sucking. It's hard to remember that far back when we actually had a great team (at 23-10 the Sox looked very sharp and they actually were winning on the road) and it would have been difficult to get rid of Rollins. Cmon at that point even though Rollins sucked, the team looked like it was fulfilling the cliche -- "winners" and/or grinders like Lawrie and Rollins were helping the team win. The guys who won the LaRoche battle were leading us to victory! And a likely division title.

 

As far as being "embarrassed," me too in terms of blowing 7 run leads in the ninth inning, doing crazy stuff no other team seems to do. Stupid bunts? You win there. He'll never learn our guys CANNOT bunt. Bad lineup construction: I'd agree. Robin sucks there too. Control over clubhouse? I'd agree. The team has a very poor approach to baseball games. No life. No pride. Zombies. Poor understanding of bullpen: I'd agree again, though Mr. Grumpy, Cooper, probably has some input there. Cooper and Robin are as bad a duo as Seals and Croft. Break them up. Get rid of them both.

I do, however, stand by my comment that Robin knows the game. I think he does. I have no idea why he's made some of the decisions he's made, but a lot of this is purely having players suck. He didn't sign Albers. He doesn't make Nate or Jennings or Robertson look great one night, horses*** the next. He needn't take the blame for a starting rotation that is thorougly inconsistent.

My point is: Robin is no Bevington. Robin does deserve another managing job somewhere after the experience he's gained here.

Edited September 24, 2016 by greg775