USA Today: White Sox Will Retain Robin Ventura, If He Wants to Return

[Black_Jack29]

I'm not sure that it's an accountability problem. I'd say the problem is Reinsdorf being unwilling to do a rebuild (full or partial) because of his age. Dude wants to win now and can't wait another four or five years to properly construct a winner. Detroit has the same problem with Mike Ilitch.

 

[chitownsportsfan]

Do you even watch the games? Ventura is easily one of the worst in game managers in the league. And his team choked away a 23-10 start after one bad loss. After a start like that there is no excuse to not be in the wild card hunt until the last day of the season at a minimum.

 

I can honestly say that I forgot all about the hot start. That is how disconnected I am. When I read your post just now I remembered how I felt during that start and how excited I was for the season. SOB.

 

[SCCWS]

Off the top of my head, I found Connie Mack whose teams lost 610 games over a six season span... in a 154 game schedule.

 

Agree but poster said "recent memory"

 

[chitownsportsfan]

I'm not sure that it's an accountability problem. I'd say the problem is Reinsdorf being unwilling to do a rebuild (full or partial) because of his age. Dude wants to win now and can't wait another four or five years to properly construct a winner. Detroit has the same problem with Mike Ilitch.

 

Except the Tigers have consistently made it close. They aren't just sniffing .500 every year they are consistently in the playoffs or in the hunt until the last week of the season. Their superstars are incredibly aged compared to the Sox' as well. It's hard to tell Miguel Cabrera to wait a couple years for a rebuild. Easier sell to twentysomethings like Sale and Q.

 

The Sox have little in common with the Tigers other than division. One is a well run club that puts out a consistently solid, if not elite product. The other, is well, the White Sox.

[soxforlife05]

I can honestly say that I forgot all about the hot start. That is how disconnected I am. When I read your post just now I remembered how I felt during that start and how excited I was for the season. SOB.

 

I hope you're not being sarcastic but I can't tell. No reason a team with Sale, Q, and Rodon can't play .500 ball the rest of the season from that point.

[RockRaines]

I hope you're not being sarcastic but I can't tell. No reason a team with Sale, Q, and Rodon can't play .500 ball the rest of the season from that point.

It also didnt help our best hitter decided to show up when we were well out of the race.

[Black_Jack29]

Except the Tigers have consistently made it close. They aren't just sniffing .500 every year they are consistently in the playoffs or in the hunt until the last week of the season. Their superstars are incredibly aged compared to the Sox' as well. It's hard to tell Miguel Cabrera to wait a couple years for a rebuild. Easier sell to twentysomethings like Sale and Q.

 

The Sox have little in common with the Tigers other than division. One is a well run club that puts out a consistently solid, if not elite product. The other, is well, the White Sox.

 

My guess is that Tigers fans don't share your assessment. They haven't won a championship in 32 years and have an aging, declining roster. Ilitch is worse than JR, wasting $100M+ money on good-but-not great players like Justin Upton and firing a highly competent executive like Dombrowski. And they have no ring to show for it. Life as a Tigers fan will likely be worse over the next five years than life as a Sox fan.

 

[southsider2k5]

My guess is that Tigers fans don't share your assessment. They haven't won a championship in 32 years and have an aging, declining roster. Ilitch is worse than JR, wasting $100M+ money on good-but-not great players like Justin Upton and firing a highly competent executive like Dombrowski. And they have no ring to show for it. Life as a Tigers fan will likely be worse over the next five years than life as a Sox fan.

 

The Tigers collapse is going to be prolonged and ugly. The dead contracts are going to just kill them.

[elrockinMT]

The Tigers collapse is going to be prolonged and ugly. The dead contracts are going to just kill them.

 

Agreed. They are an aging team and holes are appearing

[chitownsportsfan]

I hope you're not being sarcastic but I can't tell. No reason a team with Sale, Q, and Rodon can't play .500 ball the rest of the season from that point.

 

I honestly forgot the team was once 14 or whatever over .500. Like that memory has not crept into my consciousness for months until I read that post. I'm with you I think with better leadership the Sox would never have cratered like they did. Maybe they wouldn't have won 90 games but they'd have made it closer to a wildcard with a better manager IMO.

[chitownsportsfan]

My guess is that Tigers fans don't share your assessment. They haven't won a championship in 32 years and have an aging, declining roster. Ilitch is worse than JR, wasting $100M+ money on good-but-not great players like Justin Upton and firing a highly competent executive like Dombrowski. And they have no ring to show for it. Life as a Tigers fan will likely be worse over the next five years than life as a Sox fan.

 

I know quite a few Tigers fans as I grew up in MI. They aren't thrilled with the constant doubling down but overall they've had a lot of fun. Most of them I know acknowledge that without the WS ring their run feels incomplete but most of them are also pretty happy with how the club has performed over those years with a consistently winning team and watching great players like Miggy and Verlander compete.

[fathom]

The Tigers collapse is going to be prolonged and ugly. The dead contracts are going to just kill them.

 

Some great moves last season has really helped their pitching future.

[Black_Jack29]

I know quite a few Tigers fans as I grew up in MI. They aren't thrilled with the constant doubling down but overall they've had a lot of fun. Most of them I know acknowledge that without the WS ring their run feels incomplete but most of them are also pretty happy with how the club has performed over those years with a consistently winning team and watching great players like Miggy and Verlander compete.

 

They're not going to be feeling that way a couple of years from now. Tigers message boards will be just as whiny as Soxtalk by then.

 

[Soxfest]

If the White Sox are not blaming Ventura for the past five seasons but rather "roster deficiencies", then I wonder when we can expect heads to roll in the FO?

Status Quo as usual.............bad luck ask KW.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Soxfest

[GreatScott82]

I could not believe this report when I saw it this afternoon. If it's true. How the hell do expect me to take JR seriously when he says 'I really want to win now" The lack of consequences within this organization is unbearable to witness as a die hard White Sox fan. I stand by my original hypothesis that this team is run like a country club. A bunch of friends hanging out and no matter if you win or lose, they are making money and having fun together. It's obvious they don't care about winning anymore. If they did, Robin would have been fired after the 2015 season. If JR cared about winning, he would have fired KW after the Ozzie-KW divorce of 2011. If he cared about winning, he would have fired Hahn after putting together another bad MLB roster in 2016. What other organization retains a manager after 4 consecutive losing seasons? Has there ever been a MLB manager over the last 50 years keep his job after failing to make the postseason in his first 5 seasons as manager?

 

We deserve better as White Sox fans. It's pretty sad that ownership and upper management have no clue and can truly care less about the fanbase's desire for necessary change. The White Sox have fallen into the land of irrelevance when their crosstown arch rival has become a very relevant baseball monster of a team. The Robin-Hahn-KW triumvirate of stupidity era has been the worst of my lifetime. I'd gladly take the Bevington days back over this crap.

Edited September 29, 2016 by GreatScott82

[Thad Bosley]

I'm not sure that it's an accountability problem. I'd say the problem is Reinsdorf being unwilling to do a rebuild (full or partial) because of his age. Dude wants to win now and can't wait another four or five years to properly construct a winner. Detroit has the same problem with Mike Ilitch.

So an entire fan base that some feel lack some perceived level of loyalty, is denied having the team do what they SHOULD do to "properly construct a winner" solely because of decisions the 80 year old owner is arguably recklessly making to accommodate his personal time line? What about that screams WRONG!

[OmarComing25]

Some great moves last season has really helped their pitching future.

Fulmer is going to regress, Boyd is bad, and Zimmermann can't strike out anyone anymore, that deal isn't going to look good.

[Black_Jack29]

So an entire fan base that some feel lack some perceived level of loyalty, is denied having the team do what they SHOULD do to "properly construct a winner" solely because of decisions the 80 year old owner is arguably recklessly making to accommodate his personal time line? What about that screams WRONG!

 

Yep, that's pretty much what's going on. Same thing in Detroit.

 

[Balta1701]

I'm not sure that it's an accountability problem. I'd say the problem is Reinsdorf being unwilling to do a rebuild (full or partial) because of his age. Dude wants to win now and can't wait another four or five years to properly construct a winner. Detroit has the same problem with Mike Ilitch.

If Reinsdorf were so desperate to win, then he'd be after the manager's head after being told he had a competitive team 2 years in a row and then winding up a 4th place afterthought. At the worst he'd be saying "why not, we're desperate to win, try someone else"

 

Having the organization made of the guys he wants there is a bigger priority for him. Winning is lower on the list than that.

[kitekrazy]

WRONG. That honor would probably go to Buddy Bell who had a .418 winning percentage with 3 different teams. Maybe that is why he has a lofty position with the White Sox.

 

That winning percentage seems to transfer with him running the farm systems. f*** THIS ORGANIZATION.

 

[fathom]

Fulmer is going to regress, Boyd is bad, and Zimmermann can't strike out anyone anymore, that deal isn't going to look good.

 

Norris also

[Black_Jack29]

If Reinsdorf were so desperate to win, then he'd be after the manager's head after being told he had a competitive team 2 years in a row and then winding up a 4th place afterthought. At the worst he'd be saying "why not, we're desperate to win, try someone else"

 

Having the organization made of the guys he wants there is a bigger priority for him. Winning is lower on the list than that.

 

Reinsdorf supposedly wanted Renteria to take over mid-season, but Renteria supposedly said that he didn't want to do that to Ventura. (That's a rumor that somebody posted here a day or two ago.)

 

I agree that Reinsdorf giving his guys too much job security is a huge problem, but I think it's really cynical to say that Reinsdorf doesn't prioritize winning. The truth seems to be that he wants it both ways. That *can* work out (like in 2005), but ultimately creates problems.

 

[Thad Bosley]

Reinsdorf supposedly wanted Renteria to take over mid-season, but Renteria supposedly said that he didn't want to do that to Ventura. (That's a rumor that somebody posted here a day or two ago.)

 

I agree that Reinsdorf giving his guys too much job security is a huge problem, but I think it's really cynical to say that Reinsdorf doesn't prioritize winning. The truth seems to be that he wants it both ways. That *can* work out (like in 2005), but ultimately creates problems.

What can you point to that would remove this cynicism of which you speak that would demonstrate how Reinsdorf prioritizes winning?

[kitekrazy]

From the Sun-Times web site:

 

"While most speculation about Ventura’s status leaned toward the Sox going in a different direction, the front office believes the Sox’ record is more a reflection of roster deficiencies than Ventura’s managerial skills."

 

Sure every manager always brings in a relief pitcher before the opponents pinch hitter is officially announced!

 

But seriously, if the front office doesn't think Ventura is at fault then who exactly is? (Hint: They probably don't think it's them...all they do is the evaluations, the trades and sign the free agents right? LOL)

 

Mark

 

Weren't we always told the solution was for fans to show up at the ball park?

 

[SoxAce]

Looks like I didn't miss much. JR loyal to a fault, sox fans (understandably including myself) outraged and DA defending any manager/coach.