USA Today: White Sox Will Retain Robin Ventura, If He Wants to Return

[Dick Allen]

The cubz bandwagon started filling up when Harry Carey moved from the White Sox to the Cubs in 1981. That was huge. It exposed much of the country to Harry and the Cubs via Super station WGN. How cute those Cubbies were to toothless bumpkins in Iowa and throughout the WGN viewing area, and how comfortable grandparents were with folksy Harry, starting his broadcasts, "Hello everybaddy.." Yea, Cubz picked up a lot of fans, especially in remote cities and towns lacking a MLB franchise.

 

There is not question though that Sox ownership were foolish with that nonsense paid Sportsvision. And that came on the heels of substandard WSNS UHF TV broadcasts of Sox games. Dumb and dumber.

 

The thing that turned the dynamic of Cubs/Sox fandom around in a substantial way was how cubs fans were viewed after their behavior at and following the infamous 2003 Bartman game. Then on the heels of that debacle, the surprise World Series Championship that was waiting for our City in 2005. Shock (2003) and Awe (2005).

It would be hilarious if the Cubs choked in the playoffs and something like that happened again.

The bandwagon filled up in 1984' Harry's 3rd season, and their attendance didn't top the Sox until 1985 after Sportvision was sold.. Besides the Sox exclusively on WGN wasn't going to happen. There would have been too many scheduling conflicts and WGN was owned by the same people who owned the Cubs.

 

It is cute to say the Sox got rid of Harry but they did offer him a deal, and reports say more money than WGN. Not exactly a firing. And Harry has been dead over 18 years. Many of the people in the stands probably never remember him calling a game.

[SI1020]

Except the White Sox leanest attendance years happened while Carry was still here.

Harry wasn't broadcasting for the Sox from 1968-70. Compared to attendance before him and losing records the Sox had most seasons he was there, you could make the case that Harry was a definite plus as far as attendance goes. I remember the era well and I can tell you that Harry and later Harry and Jimmy Piersall kept interest in the team as high as possible, considering the ineptitude on the field.

[SI1020]

The bandwagon filled up in 1984' Harry's 3rd season, and their attendance didn't top the Sox until 1985 after Sportvision was sold.. Besides the Sox exclusively on WGN wasn't going to happen. There would have been too many scheduling conflicts and WGN was owned by the same people who owned the Cubs.

 

It is cute to say the Sox got rid of Harry but they did offer him a deal, and reports say more money than WGN. Not exactly a firing. And Harry has been dead over 18 years. Many of the people in the stands probably never remember him calling a game.

Harry left because of SportsVision. He compared the number of viewers he would have there with the national power that WGN was. Don't forget that in the midst of the champagne soaked celebration when the Sox clinched in 1983. instead of just enjoying the euphoria of the moment Jerry Reinsdorf had to take time out to insult Harry Caray and Jimmy Piersall. So believe it, the Sox did no hand wringing when Harry Caray declined their offer and signed with the Cubs.

[captain54]

And Harry has been dead over 18 years. Many of the people in the stands probably never remember him calling a game.

 

that's oh so true and sometimes, important for old farts like me to remember. The 80's don't seem that long ago to some of us

 

But in the context of the original topic, I think it's interesting to look back at the history of Chicago sports.. At the managers, players, announcers, coaches, etc...that drew and attracted the most fan interest. Mike Ditka, Caray, etc.. those types of personalities personify a sort of knock around, working class, hard drinking kind of town.

 

 

[caulfield12]

The cubz bandwagon started filling up when Harry Carey moved from the White Sox to the Cubs in 1981. That was huge. It exposed much of the country to Harry and the Cubs via Super station WGN. How cute those Cubbies were to toothless bumpkins in Iowa and throughout the WGN viewing area, and how comfortable grandparents were with folksy Harry, starting his broadcasts, "Hello everybaddy.." Yea, Cubz picked up a lot of fans, especially in remote cities and towns lacking a MLB franchise.

 

There is not question though that Sox ownership were foolish with that nonsense paid Sportsvision. And that came on the heels of substandard WSNS UHF TV broadcasts of Sox games. Dumb and dumber.

 

The thing that turned the dynamic of Cubs/Sox fandom around in a substantial way was how cubs fans were viewed after their behavior at and following the infamous 2003 Bartman game. Then on the heels of that debacle, the surprise World Series Championship that was waiting for our City in 2005. Shock (2003) and Awe (2005).

It would be hilarious if the Cubs choked in the playoffs and something like that happened again.

 

What would Illinois be without Chicago?

 

More toothless bumpkins. And half the people who come to games are 50+ year old fans from Des Moines who have had a relationship with the Iowa Cubs for years and years.

 

How many fans in Charlotte and Birmingham can conveniently attend Sox games?

 

It's called marketing and controlling your regional territory. Not to mention the team in Peoria for generations.

Once upon a time, the Sox at least had a team in South Bend.

 

Another example, the Royals with teams in Omaha and NW Arkansas. Before that, Wichita for AA. It's called building your fanbase. It also helps when there's lots of young and exciting players to follow before they even reach the majors.

[southsider2k5]

That was due to John Allyn and Veeck not being able to figure out (with the exception of 72' and 77') how to put a good product on the field, not Harry.

 

Yet even when the White Sox won, they still didn't do it on the south side in terms of turning turnstyles. The logic here is becoming circular.

[tray]

It's called marketing and controlling your regional territory. Not to mention the team in Peoria for generations.

Once upon a time, the Sox at least had a team in South Bend.

Another example, the Royals with teams in Omaha and NW Arkansas. Before that, Wichita for AA. It's called building your fanbase. It also helps when there's lots of young and exciting players to follow before they even reach the majors.

 

You complain about the Sox organization from the minor league affiliates on up to the front office and the owners, the stadium, and at times the fans and the players.

Is there anything about the White Sox that you can be positive about?

Building a fan base? Perhaps you might agree to simply stop trying to discourage fans.

[captain54]

Yet even when the White Sox won, they still didn't do it on the south side in terms of turning ". The logic here is becoming circular.

 

And round and round it goes.

 

Let's give the wheel another spin, shall we?

 

Let's see, where does it stop?

 

Yep! "Sox fans are bums for historically never showing up, and don't deserve the gifts this current ownership has brought to SoxLand"

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

And round and round it goes.

 

Let's give the wheel another spin, shall we?

 

Let's see, where does it stop?

 

Yep! "Sox fans are bums for historically never showing up, and don't deserve the gifts this current ownership has brought to SoxLand"

 

Yeah, EVERYTHING OWNERSHIP DOES IS WRONG, EVEN WHEN IT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT!

[Kyyle23]

The cubz bandwagon started filling up when Harry Carey moved from the White Sox to the Cubs in 1981. That was huge. It exposed much of the country to Harry and the Cubs via Super station WGN. How cute those Cubbies were to toothless bumpkins in Iowa and throughout the WGN viewing area, and how comfortable grandparents were with folksy Harry, starting his broadcasts, "Hello everybaddy.." Yea, Cubz picked up a lot of fans, especially in remote cities and towns lacking a MLB franchise.

 

There is not question though that Sox ownership were foolish with that nonsense paid Sportsvision. And that came on the heels of substandard WSNS UHF TV broadcasts of Sox games. Dumb and dumber.

 

The thing that turned the dynamic of Cubs/Sox fandom around in a substantial way was how cubs fans were viewed after their behavior at and following the infamous 2003 Bartman game. Then on the heels of that debacle, the surprise World Series Championship that was waiting for our City in 2005. Shock (2003) and Awe (2005).

It would be hilarious if the Cubs choked in the playoffs and something like that happened again.

 

I feel like eating spaghetti after this large meatball showed up

[Hatchetman]

Yep! "Sox fans are bums for historically never showing up, and don't deserve the gifts this current ownership has brought to SoxLand"

 

LOL you beat me to it.

[captain54]

Yeah, EVERYTHING OWNERSHIP DOES IS WRONG, EVEN WHEN IT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT!

 

Your usage of ALL CAPS is impressive, young man...it shows a strong conviction of your opinion, and does a lot to show us you feel very strongly about this..kudos to you

 

However, kindly give me an example of this ersatz, wacky hypothesis.. What exactly has this current ownership group done according to the exact wishes of the fans, that the fans later b****ed about?

Edited October 1, 2016 by captain54

[Thad Bosley]

Yeah, EVERYTHING OWNERSHIP DOES IS WRONG, EVEN WHEN IT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT!

Two things:

A.) Fans want a winner. In your opinion, how well has ownership done on delivering on that one and only request?

B.) In your opinion, what has ownership done that is right that apparently the rest of us are not properly appreciating?

[greg775]

Yeah, EVERYTHING OWNERSHIP DOES IS WRONG, EVEN WHEN IT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT!

Ownership got a lot of praise from the folks on soxtalk when the Sox won it in 05 and even for good seasons.

I have been against the type of players we've been acquiring like Melky, Lawrie, Avila, Navarro, LaRoche, all those mediocre to lousy bullpen arms and the like. But this Robin thing makes no sense and fans have to be mad if they are fans. JR is either incredibly loyal to nice guy Robin or he's stubborn and wants to prove the Sox brass knew what they were doing when they recruited him to manage when he was doing nothing but enjoying retirement.

It wouldn't even be mean to not extend Robin. His contract is running out.

If Robin eventually gets us to the playoffs a lot of us will be happy to eat our words.

But right now your post is misguided. We have the right to complain about the demise of the Sox with no apparent plan. I think deep down even Hawk would tell you Robin doesn't have what it takes to manage.

Edited October 1, 2016 by greg775

[Lip Man 1]

No everything ownership does is not wrong...however baseball is a results orientate business and the results the last four years and seven of the last 10 clearly show things aren't working.

 

Those are the unbiased facts...just look at the record, look at the TV ratings, look at the media coverage, look at the attendance.

 

On the topic at hand. I spoke with an individual for an hour Thursday before I left for Portland, have to broadcast a football game in a few hours. That person knows Robin well although I don't know if they have spoken with him lately.

 

After explaining the USA Today story and going over the possibilities this person said they think Robin will walk away from the job next week and return to California.

 

Now we'll see what happens.

 

I've got an all night trip back from Portland tonight into tomorrow but after I get some sleep when the last game is played Sunday I'll have some by the numbers for discussion purposes.

 

Mark

[southsider2k5]

Two things:

A.) Fans want a winner. In your opinion, how well has ownership done on delivering on that one and only request?

B.) In your opinion, what has ownership done that is right that apparently the rest of us are not properly appreciating?

 

Even when they have delivered a winner, fans didn't respond in the same way as Cub fans did. The difference wasn't Harry Carry, it was the fan bases. The Cubs fan base is more loyal.

[Reddy]

Even when they have delivered a winner, fans didn't respond in the same way as Cub fans did. The difference wasn't Harry Carry, it was the fan bases. The Cubs fan base is more loyal.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree that they're more loyal. I think they're just more popular because they're on the north side and they're trendy, and always have been. It has nothing to do with hardcore loyalty IMO.

[Hatchetman]

The Cubs fan base is more loyal.

 

Is this a genetic thing? Racial? Socioeconomic? What exactly are you talking about?

[captain54]

Even when they have delivered a winner, fans didn't respond in the same way as Cub fans did. The difference wasn't Harry Carry, it was the fan bases. The Cubs fan base is more loyal.

 

C'mon guy, now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing

 

I recall having a difficult time getting a ticket to a postseason game in 2005.. Also, check the Sox attendance numbers for 2006.. or did those numbers that year not quite meet your approval/criteria for fan loyalty in response to a winner.

 

The Cub fan base is entirely different than the Sox fan base..the great majority of those "loyal" Cub fans show up for the party at Addison and Clark, not the game… every Sox fan that I've known in my lifetime has learned this as they exited the womb...

Edited October 1, 2016 by captain54

[Dick Allen]

C'mon guy, now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing

 

I recall having a difficult time getting a ticket to a postseason game in 2005.. Also, check the Sox attendance numbers for 2006.. or did those numbers that year not quite meet your approval/criteria for fan loyalty in response to a winner.

 

The Cub fan base is entirely different than the Sox fan base..the great majority of those "loyal" Cub fans show up for the party at Addison and Clark, not the game… every Sox fan that I've known in my lifetime has learned this as they exited the womb...

Yeah, check the attendance numbers from 2006. The 66-96 Cubs drew almost 200k more than the White Sox.

 

It is 2 different realities. The Sox will not draw what the Cubs draw. For one thing, there are probably triple the amount of people living within 2 miles of Wrigley Field.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Reddy]

Yeah, check the attendance numbers from 2006. The 66-96 Cubs drew almost 200k more than the White Sox.

 

It is 2 different realities. The Sox will not draw what the Cubs draw. For one thing, there are probably triple the amount of people living within 2 miles of Wrigley Field.

 

Exactly. A whole lot easier when that many people can just walk to the ballpark

 

EDIT: and then to the bar

Edited October 1, 2016 by Reddy

[Thad Bosley]

Even when they have delivered a winner, fans didn't respond in the same way as Cub fans did. The difference wasn't Harry Carry, it was the fan bases. The Cubs fan base is more loyal.

You mean those five times in the last 56 years? I'm sorry, what was that you were saying something about loyalty?

Edited October 1, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[southsider2k5]

You mean those five times in the last 56 years? I'm sorry, what was that you were saying something about loyalty?

 

Here we go into the endless circle again, where I prove that even when they did, people still didn't show up nearly as much.

[Hatchetman]

Here we go into the endless circle again, where I prove that even when they did, people still didn't show up nearly as much.

 

You've never proven anything.

[southsider2k5]

You've never proven anything.

 

The numbers are there. You can continue to choose to ignore them if you like.