USA Today: White Sox Will Retain Robin Ventura, If He Wants to Return

[caulfield12]

My version is that JR has created a system where there is no accountability at any level and as a consequence everyone tried to keep things just as they are so that their jobs never are put under pressure. No one in the org is willing to challenge their current formula as fundamentally flawed because they would be the disloyal one if they did so. So everyone just insists they did a good job and there's no problem. If Hahn changes managers then someone did something wrong by hiring and extending him - can't admit that.

 

The one place where this started breaking out was having two players come out and say that this team didn't care about winning, in various ways.

 

They've brought in Haber, Hostetler and Paddy. Basically the only evidence of ANY attempt at changing.

 

That said, keeping KW, Hahn and Buddy Bell in charge of this whole debacle almost begs belief.

 

My first reaction was more along the lines of Thad Bosley, that it was just a "graceful" exit, but the vitriol being expressed at different websites where this story is being carried is worse than I've ever seen it...it feels like the mid to late 80's as a White Sox fan again, when the team was tottering on the abyss of moving to another city.

 

 

Hahn has said there was going to be a careful analysis of ALL THE REASONS FOR THE MEDIOCRE PLAY, and since none of them are apparently the major league coaching staff, that means we essentially have to trust a front office that can't even see its nose in front of its face to fix the talent mix in the face of the worst free agency class in recent history.

 

Unbelievable. My only joy this off-season again will come from rooting AGAINST the Cubs and rooting for the Rangers/Banister to win the World Series finally...and moments like the Dee Gordon homer off Colon, that any baseball fan can appreciate regardless of their allegiance.

Edited September 29, 2016 by caulfield12

[Lip Man 1]

I'm not sure that it's an accountability problem. I'd say the problem is Reinsdorf being unwilling to do a rebuild (full or partial) because of his age. Dude wants to win now and can't wait another four or five years to properly construct a winner. Detroit has the same problem with Mike Ilitch.

 

The difference is money is no object for Ilitch. It seems to be an issue for the White Sox.

 

Mark

 

 

[Dizzy Sox]

Usually my hopes for the Sox are dashed every season by late May or early June. At least the club has let me write off 2017 a good 9 months early now that we know Ventura will be back. Saves me a lot of time and effort.

[greg775]

I had a feeling they might keep him as we stayed 'near' .500 but really thought the performance vs. our Central Division brethren would cause his ouster.

I mean ... they don't even INTERVIEW Robin after the season to see how he wishes to FIX this problem? We basically went winless on the road vs. the Central. Four measly fricking wins!!! Somebody ask Hahn about this at Soxfest. "With all due respect, Mr. Hahn, we won four games on the road vs. Central Division teams. That is an abnormally low total for a team that finished near .500. Sir, how could we keep our manager with such a record of ineptitude. Thank you."

 

I have nothing against Robin. I think he knows baseball. But THERE IS A PATTERN here. Dysfunctional losses that we do not bounce back from; horrific play vs. the Central; refusal to acknowledge our guys CANNOT lay down a bunt and overall pretty bad performances on the road. We are a pretty lousy road team.

 

If I felt Robin could correct these flaws I'd be OK with him coming back. But folks, I just don't think he can fix these issues. My main beef is not even meeting with him after the season. We're just gonna sign him for 2 more years or something???? Ridiculous.

Edited September 29, 2016 by greg775

[jamesdiego]

Idea of JR "caring" so much about winning right now, is him only caring about making his wallet fat while hanging with his buddies(KW, Hahn, Ventura), who have no clue on how to create a winning organization.

 

This f'n clown show joke of an organization. The Chicago Sting is run better than these guys. Go ahead and bring back Ventura and you will completely lose the southside........as if that hasn't already happened.

[Chicago White Sox]

Looks like I didn't miss much. JR loyal to a fault, sox fans (understandably including myself) outraged and DA defending any manager/coach.

Unless that coach is Don Cooper!

[LittleHurt05]

If Reinsdorf were so desperate to win, then he'd be after the manager's head after being told he had a competitive team 2 years in a row and then winding up a 4th place afterthought. At the worst he'd be saying "why not, we're desperate to win, try someone else"

 

Having the organization made of the guys he wants there is a bigger priority for him. Winning is lower on the list than that.

 

Those final two sentences sum up everything about the organization in my opinion. It'sthe same reason Kenny got "fired" into a promotion.

[Dunt]

If you want an idea how the White Sox FO really feels about the fanbase, read that follow up Nightengale piece. f*** this organization.

[greg775]

Does anybody on soxtalk agree with the move to keep Robin? Does anybody think Robin is capable of fixing the recurring problems prevalent in his Sox teams? I love Robin Ventura and would love in a perfect world for him to return and lead us to pennants. I just don't see logically how he can reverse these areas of s***tiness that plague his teams.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'm only not going to rage about this if they decide to sell this offseason and 2017 becomes a punt-year anyway. Then it doesn't matter WHO the sacrificial lamb is.

This was my thought when reading so many negative reactions. If the fan base, on here at least, is pretty much in favor of a rebuild then what difference does it make who is managing ?

 

I was one of the first ones on here to bad mouth Robin as a manager, but clearly the onus of the Sox situation is on Hahn, Williams and Reinsdorf. Ventura comes in a distant 4th after them.

A change should be made because it is due, hell it's past due but Robin never had the horses to be in the race.

[Baron]

Nice of Bob in his latest article update to put White Sox fans on blast for not accepting poor results.

[fathom]

If you want an idea how the White Sox FO really feels about the fanbase, read that follow up Nightengale piece. f*** this organization.

 

Yep, what a joke. They have done everything in their power to push away their fan base this season. The reaction I have seen online by Sox fans today might as well have made this White Flag 2.0 in terms of upsetting Sox fans.

Edited September 29, 2016 by fathom

[caulfield12]

If you want an idea how the White Sox FO really feels about the fanbase, read that follow up Nightengale piece. f*** this organization.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...-hale/91226072/

 

Apparently, Nightengale had a certain SoxTalk poster ghostwrite the second half of that article. Or his account was hacked.

 

The irony is that even college football programs like LSU and maybe Oklahoma are in the process of firing guys who make MANY multiples of Ventura's $1.5 million salary before the halfway mark in the season.

 

 

The last five seasons would make a perfect case study/textbook for any business school's "EXACTLY WHAT NOT TO DO IF YOU'RE IN PUBLIC RELATIONS."

 

I suppose if the business side of things is completely irrelevant and you're satisfied with your profit margins and content that thousands were conned/tricked into buying partial season ticket plans in late April/early May only to end up eating most of those tickets...then you should go ahead and throw yourselves a "Mission Accomplished" party. Good job, JR!

Edited September 29, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dam8610]

A change should be made because it is due, hell it's past due but Robin never had the horses to be in the race.

 

Didn't the division champs lose practically half their team? That's the problem I have with that argument.

[fathom]

The Sox should have never leaked this. The optics look awful tonight with so many media members speculating that a manager no one wants here might not even want to stay here. If they were going to bring him back, then the deal should have been finalized before leaking anything.

[fathom]

One more thing to add...the quoted by Robin today look like someone who's not coming back. If he was, he would have reiterated what he said in August and that he is hopeful to work something out.

[caulfield12]

Arizona Diamondbacks manager Chip Hale is expected to be fired, with Phil Nevin the leading candidate to replace him.

 

 

Even the DBacks/LaRussa/Stewart are smart enough to fire their manager when they arguably have been the worst front office over an 18 month period in recent MLB history...

 

They could take the top 3-4 guys behind Theo/Hoyer/McLeod...starting with Bush and Rehman, randomly throw darts at their organizational chart and bring those guys over to the SouthSide, and undoubtedly have a heckuva lot better (and more cohesive/vision-oriented) organization than we currently do.

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=chc

[captain54]

If Reinsdorf were so desperate to win, then he'd be after the manager's head after being told he had a competitive team 2 years in a row and then winding up a 4th place afterthought. At the worst he'd be saying "why not, we're desperate to win, try someone else"

 

Having the organization made of the guys he wants there is a bigger priority for him. Winning is lower on the list than that.

 

Best post I've read on this board in a while.. this nails it..

 

I don't believe Reinsdorf is "desperate" and is willing to do anything, at any cost to bring another WS title to the South Side...He obviously is deeply committed to running a harmonious corporate environment, where he's got his finger on the pulse of everything... you won't see any renegades in a JR run outfit...

[Lip Man 1]

Feel free to send an e-mail to [email protected]

 

Here is what I wrote:

 

Hi Bob:

 

I write for the Chicago Baseball Museum, Sox Net and am a White Sox historian.

 

I just wanted to touch on your column about Robin Ventura.

 

Briefly it's this...about to have four straight losing seasons (last time that happened 1986-1989) and seven in the last 10 (you have to go back to 1968-1980 the last time the Sox had that long of a sustained stretch of bad baseball).

 

Attendance is poor, TV ratings for the regional cable network (Comcast Sports Chicago) have been among the lowest in baseball the past two years...and the franchise with the Cubs success is becoming more and more irrelevant in their own home market.

 

Loyalty by ownership is a good thing today...loyalty WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY is dangerous and that is exactly the situation the franchise finds themselves in.

 

Name me another franchise that would put up with the type of results Sox fans have seen over the past decade.

 

Robin Ventura (the same manager who waived in his relief pitcher BEFORE the Brewers had officially announced their pinch hitter two years ago) simply is part of the problem to be sure. Granted the problem goes much higher, to a dysfunctional front office and an ossified owner...but don't blame the fan base who is left for being pissed and upset.

 

This franchise needs dramatic, radical, massive change...the fans can see it, why can't the front office / ownership?

 

Instead they'll probably "go for it" again in 2017...with a poor free agent class, a self imposed financial limit and a minor league system that still is in shambles (and has been for over a decade).

 

When the Sox finish with a losing record again next year, will it be the fans fault in your opinion?

 

I enjoy your work but you are way, WAY off base here in your conclusions.

 

 

Mark Liptak

Edited September 29, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[caulfield12]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...928-column.html

 

The juxtaposition between the Cubs' and Sox announcements was jarring, to say the least.

 

 

AS THEO EPSTEIN RECEIVES COMMITMENT ($50 million for 5 years), VENTURA TWISTS IN THE WIND

 

I'm pretty sure the White Sox haven't spent $50 million on the GM's salary over the history of the entire franchise.

[JoshPR]

The whole staff needs to go. Steverson should be first....

[caulfield12]

Theo Epstein would be the sixth biggest contract in Sox history.

 

Abreu, Danks, Buehrle, Ordonez and Konerko...

 

[Black_Jack29]

What can you point to that would remove this cynicism of which you speak that would demonstrate how Reinsdorf prioritizes winning?

 

Seriously? Uh, how about the money he's spent? In just the past two years, I'm counting about $150M in financial commitments to Melky, Robertson, Frazier, Shields, Samardzija, LaRoche, etc. Not to mention the long-term deals that he gave to Abreu, Eaton, Sale, Quintana, etc. That may not be George Steinbrenner money and one can question the intelligence of a couple of those moves (Shields, in particular). But it's pretty significant spending by somebody who doesn't have the Steinbrenner family's financial resources. If Reinsdorf doesn't care about winning, he wouldn't be spending like this. He could've saved a lot of money by fielding a team full of the Sox's crappy AA and AAA players.

 

Look, I realize that you're pissed about the way that the organization is being run and I don't disagree with you about that point. But the idea that winning isn't a high priority for Reinsdorf is just dumb.

 

[GGajewski18]

Nightengale said did anyone really think the Sox were gonna make the playoffs in any of the last 4 years. Didn't he pick the Sox to make the playoffs in 2015? Pretty sure Pedro Gomez picked them to win the WS. Also, pretty sure Rosenthal picked them to go to the playoffs too.

 

This article is straight from KW in my opinion. Fearless and unpopular decisions lol. My god, this is the worst piece I've seen from BN.

 

By the way, if Robin is the manager next year and we trade Sale, I'm not going to a single game.

[Chicago White Sox]

Seriously? Uh, how about the money he's spent? In just the past two years, I'm counting about $150M in financial commitments to Melky, Robertson, Frazier, Shields, Samardzija, LaRoche, etc. Not to mention the long-term deals that he gave to Abreu, Eaton, Sale, Quintana, etc. That may not be George Steinbrenner money and one can question the intelligence of a couple of those moves (Shields, in particular). But it's pretty significant spending by somebody who doesn't have the Steinbrenner family's financial resources. If Reinsdorf doesn't care about winning, he wouldn't be spending like this. He could've saved a lot of money by fielding a team full of the Sox's crappy AA and AAA players.

 

Look, I realize that you're pissed about the way that the organization is being run and I don't disagree with you about that point. But the idea that winning isn't a high priority for Reinsdorf is just dumb.

Reinsdorf no doubt wants to win, but it has to be done his way. And quite frankly, that's the problem. He's not willing to go above and beyond what's necessary to overcome our poor farm system in order to build a winner. Signing a bunch of B free agents and never going into the red isn't going to cut it when we get very little help from the minors. He doesn't like utilizing loopholes, such as refusing to go over slot for years in the draft, and he's generally never been a big supporter of investing large dollars into said minor league system (with a few exceptions). Worst of all, he's built an organization with no accountability. How Buddy Bell is still here after years of development failure is beyond belief. The same arguably applies to KW, Hahn, & Ventura. Combine these factors amongst others, and it's no wonder we're stuck in baseball hell right now.

 

I've never been a Reinsdorf hater, but we desperately need fresh blood at the top of this organzation.