Chisoxfn Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 He'd bench have of the starting lineup and give the guys that really play hard the starts from here on out. Now is the time to make the statement that the Sox won't put up with that crap. This is a statement that should of been made long ago...but now that JM is on his final straw...he might as well get the guys out their that try and get the september callups a lot more action. Heck if it were up to me...I'd tell quite a few of the regulars to pack their bags and I'd replace them with some of the minor leaguers. THINGS have got to change next year. I love the Sox but the more I think about it...the more I get pissed about how pathetic they played and more importantly how pathetic they are finishing. I look at the Dodgers and see that they are likely out of it (Now 2/1/2 back) yet they are playing their butts off and are gonna do what they can to end it on a positive note. In contrast...look at the Sox...they've mailed this in. While the season may be over...play for the fans and your own respect and kick some ass and make strides. The fans have really backed the Sox as of late and the Sox went out heartless. Now I'm not calling everyone out...but a lot of changes need to be made. They start at the top with Jerry...but he isn't the lone problem. I refuse to soley blame the manager for the teams lack of heart. Players at this stage of the game should be able to motivate themselves and be willing to play hard all the time. Rowand isn't the best player in the league...but everytime I watch him I know he's giving it his best and bottom line thats what matters. So Jerry...and the Sox...show some freaking heart the rest of the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 If he has any guts and he's not fired he sould resign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Thomas, Everett, Lee, Marte and Gordon are the only players I really wanna see back next year. These guys play all out and I love that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 Thomas, Everett, Lee, Marte and Gordon are the only players I really wanna see back next year. These guys play all out and I love that... Sorry roman...Thomas should be nowhere near the Sox next year. I am not gonna call him heartless but he is way too one dimensional and paying him wouldn't be the best option, imo. I'd much rather have someone like Scott Spiezo wihle the Sox invest the money that would be paid to Thomas towards Matsui or Tejada as well as reupping with Colon. Thomas laid down, down the strecth. I'm not gonna blame him cause you could see he wanted to win so bad...unlike some on the team. Like I say if I were GM, the #1 goal would be to dump: Jose Valentin (Only way he should be back is as a utility guy; Don't see that happening because Graffy, unlike him isn't incredibly one dimensional...ie can't hit lefties; Plus Miles will likely be around) Frank Thomas (I am not a fan of full time DH's) Paul Konerko (Possible; Depending on what you get; I wouldn't care cause he's overpaid so the money invested elsewhere would be enough value for me) Bill Koch (Impossible) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Bill Koch (Impossible) That's William to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Guaranteeing that Jose Valentin is not on the 2004 roster should be priority #1, IMO. Thomas and/or Konerko should be gone also. We need the $$$$ that those guys are taking up, and we seriously need to not be paying Maggs $14 mil, sorry, its true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 Guaranteeing that Jose Valentin is not on the 2004 roster should be priority #1, IMO. Thomas and/or Konerko should be gone also. We need the $$$$ that those guys are taking up, and we seriously need to not be paying Maggs $14 mil, sorry, its true. Maggs definately makes a lot...but if you can sign him longterm at 8 mill (I think he wants to stay in Chicago and thats a fair price, imo). The market isn't what it was in the past. Right now Garret Anderson, whose a better player makes 5 mill a year. He's gonna get a raise, but he'll probably get 10-12 mill. If you can'tget Maggs signed by the beginning of the season cut a deal where you get Peavy, Khalil Greene, Xavier Nady and another prospect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 If you can'tget Maggs signed by the beginning of the season cut a deal where you get Peavy, Khalil Greene, Xavier Nady and another prospect Do you really think the Padres would be willing to give that much up? They already have Giles and Nevin to play the corner outfield positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Well, IMO, they should do what they can to restructure that 2004 deal with Maggs, thats more than 20% of our payroll right there. And about the Padres deal, I can't see them trading away Khalil and Nady, much less for someone they don't really need now, like WS99 said, they have 2 corner OFers now. I'd have trouble rooting for Khalil in Chi-Town, but I'd get over it. The kid has talent, just have my reasons for not liking him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Maggs definately makes a lot...but if you can sign him longterm at 8 mill (I think he wants to stay in Chicago and thats a fair price, imo). The market isn't what it was in the past. Right now Garret Anderson, whose a better player makes 5 mill a year. He's gonna get a raise, but he'll probably get 10-12 mill. If you can'tget Maggs signed by the beginning of the season cut a deal where you get Peavy, Khalil Greene, Xavier Nady and another prospect Someone who's getting 14 million for one year will not renegotiate to a long term contract at 8 million a year. Why would he? Hell, the players union would crucify him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 Do you really think the Padres would be willing to give that much up? They already have Giles and Nevin to play the corner outfield positions. Not saying they'd do it...but they are supposedly very interested in Maggs via FA after this year. But thats what I'd ask for. They originally agreed to send Nady, Perez and that other prospect for Giles and Maggs is a better player then Brian. I'd prefer to get Maggs signed to an extension. Take that 14 mill and break it down a bit and give him an extra 3 years after next year at 30 mill or so. so basically its a 4 yr 40 mill deal with performance incentives. If he wins the MVP he gets another 2 or 3 mill and a 500 K for the all star game and stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 Maggs definately makes a lot...but if you can sign him longterm at 8 mill (I think he wants to stay in Chicago and thats a fair price, imo). The market isn't what it was in the past. Right now Garret Anderson, whose a better player makes 5 mill a year. He's gonna get a raise, but he'll probably get 10-12 mill. If you can'tget Maggs signed by the beginning of the season cut a deal where you get Peavy, Khalil Greene, Xavier Nady and another prospect Someone who's getting 14 million for one year will not renegotiate to a long term contract at 8 million a year. Why would he? Hell, the players union would crucify him. Cause you give him performance incentives and longterm guaranteed money. After signing that deal he could definately retire. And if he expects to get 12-14 mill...then see ya is what I'd tell him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 If you can'tget Maggs signed by the beginning of the season cut a deal where you get Peavy, Khalil Greene, Xavier Nady and another prospect Jason, are you smoking left-handed heaters again??? There is no way in hell SD makes that trade. Hell, maybe not even half of it. Sorry roman...Thomas should be nowhere near the Sox next year. Unfortunately, that is not completely of the Sox choice. I agree with the premise of your post Jason and think that changes do need to be made. However, I would start with a different manager (and GM if we can get that lucky), and tweak this team. I would keep as much intact as I could, yet would try and find a way to make 2-3 key moves. I do not think an overhaul of players is needed, the right manager with a fresh start can handle that. I do think payroll needs to be/will be kept at a reasonable level and not reduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 4 yrs at 40 mil, i could live with....when we get into the Teens in terms of millions for one player, considering this teams payroll will never exceed 70 mill, thats where I have a problem with it. BTW, abozichiu, even I can poke fun at my boy Koch, as evident by my sig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Maggs definately makes a lot...but if you can sign him longterm at 8 mill (I think he wants to stay in Chicago and thats a fair price, imo). The market isn't what it was in the past. Right now Garret Anderson, whose a better player makes 5 mill a year. He's gonna get a raise, but he'll probably get 10-12 mill. If you can'tget Maggs signed by the beginning of the season cut a deal where you get Peavy, Khalil Greene, Xavier Nady and another prospect Someone who's getting 14 million for one year will not renegotiate to a long term contract at 8 million a year. Why would he? Hell, the players union would crucify him. You're exactly right, which is why the Sox are probably not too happy now with the situation they're in with Konerko's salary next season in addition to the 14 million due to Mags. They overpaid for him, in my opinion, but I liked the deal at the time. Looking back on it, it wasn't a good deal. That's over 1/4 of our payroll for 2 players. There's no way they can afford to resign Colon, unless they plan to spend more money next season. In addition, we are going to have to pay Buehrle more after he rejects the deal we offer him (and he will if its a lowball offer) and go to arbitration. Buehrle will win the arbitration case and get a nice little salary. I think the route the Sox are gonna have to go is to sign a #3 or #4 starter for a relatively cheap price, try to re-sign Robbie and that will be about all in terms of moves. If they can unload Frank or Konerko, they will, but I don't see that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 4 yrs at 40 mil, i could live with....when we get into the Teens in terms of millions for one player, considering this teams payroll will never exceed 70 mill, thats where I have a problem with it. BTW, abozichiu, even I can poke fun at my boy Koch, as evident by my sig. capn12 what is your sig supposed to be. All I see is a fortune city add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 hmmm, is it that way for everyone? I checked the url, all looks ok, and I can go straight to it via url....not sure why it wouldnt be showing up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 hmmm, is it that way for everyone? I checked the url, all looks ok, and I can go straight to it via url....not sure why it wouldnt be showing up I see it just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 Jason, are you smoking left-handed heaters again??? There is no way in hell SD makes that trade. Hell, maybe not even half of it. Unfortunately, that is not completely of the Sox choice. I agree with the premise of your post Jason and think that changes do need to be made. However, I would start with a different manager (and GM if we can get that lucky), and tweak this team. I would keep as much intact as I could, yet would try and find a way to make 2-3 key moves. I do not think an overhaul of players is needed, the right manager with a fresh start can handle that. I do think payroll needs to be/will be kept at a reasonable level and not reduced. Oh I agree they wouldn't do it...but I'd ask for that. Sox are giving up their star player so I'd want a lot in return. They still would have Gatreu to be in the infield and then would likely sign a shortstop. As far as overhauling the team...I soley would like to see some new players that aren't one dimensional. Konerko, Thomas and Jose are one dimensional players. Replace them with guys that can play defense, run and do the little things. Put Maggs and Carlos in the middle of the order with Crede around him. I know it won't be prolific, but it will be able to get things done, especially with Alomar/Matsui at the top of the lineup. Then get Spiezo to play first (you can sign him for about 2 mill and he is a very solid hitter, a leader and a hell of a defensive player; he rarely strikes out and uses all parts of the field). At DH, you put Carl Everett who plays with heart and can eventually player center. Then you have Rowand/Reed/Borchard in center. Keep the pitching staff the same and give Rauch, Pacheco, Cotts, Diaz and maybe a free agent a shot at the 5th slot. Replace Gordon with Hawkins (Don't trust the fact that Gordon stays healthy). I would take Gordon back though. Keep Marte and Sho ( who also goes for the 5th slot) and mix him with Wright as well as Munoz/Sanders/Marte. I'd lean to keeping Sully if you can give him a 2 yr / 4 mill deal. Then you got your original staff (Sho probably starts out of the gate; meaning Wunsch, Marte and maybe Munoz/Sanders is the lefty). Then you get Gordon or Hawkins, Sully, Wright, Koch, and room for youngsters. Offensively the team has been rejuvenated with a new concept. You still have power hitters (Matsui, Lee, Maggs, Everett, Crede) but all of those power hitters can move guys over and other then Crede are pretty quick and solid baserunners (Crede has good baserunning fundementals). Spiezo, Alomar, Rowand/Reed can also do all the little things and Olivo can play defense. Simply put...3 changes could really overhaul this club. Plus the change at the top (New Manager). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Oh f***...it musta been late when i made that one.... my spelling and capitalizing skills are defunct bad!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 hmmm, is it that way for everyone? I checked the url, all looks ok, and I can go straight to it via url....not sure why it wouldnt be showing up I can see it fine. Its a Wanted Sign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I don't know, I do remember seeing it fine a couple days ago. It was a sign referring to finding the Koch who pitched for the A's last year correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 yeah, and its got a bad misspell in it...i feel like a Spelling Bee flunkie!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 How come everyone has turned against Thomas, a legend and the greatest player to don the uniform for us ever? The man deserves respect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 How come everyone has turned against Thomas, a legend and the greatest player to don the uniform for us ever? The man deserves respect! He is a very good hitter but he has never shown up for big games and thats the problem many people have with him. My problem with you earlier was that you criticized Loaiza while defending Thomas. As for Thomas being the greatest to ever don the White Sox uni, I think Shoeless Joe would have something to say about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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