Dick Allen Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Free agents tend to get overpaid. Reddick is going to get overpaid. Some guys are worth overpaying. I don't think he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (shipps @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 11:34 AM) Hahn says that they absolutely under achieved this year. They dont think there is a problem with this team. As you can probably expect, I disagree with this statement. I think if they played this season 100 times, the average finish would be about 3-4 games below .500. So, if RH is saying "by one or two games", fine, but I'm skeptical that is his actual meaning. They took a team that was well below .500 but extremely lucky on injuries, added 1 big name to it to upgrade 3b, got a better performance out of Eaton, got a worse performance out of their bullpen, and went from historically lucky on injuries to slightly lucky. That is still a below .500 team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 12:03 PM) I think Eaton is adequate in CF. It certainly makes sense to keep him in right but if you cannot get a legit CF you may have to move him back to improve the overall offensive balance of the outfield. For example, I don't think you pass on Reddick, if he is a target, because Eaton is in RF. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 12:07 PM) My first option would be a rebuild. A second option far below that is doing absolytely nothing to the roster. Third would be attempting to trade/sign various players to try and compete. The problem is they can not appreciably add to theor roster this winter without (further) depleting the farm or overspending on a weak FA market As I see it, a rebuild is inevitable and I would not waste one cent trying to improve this team. They'll succeed or fail with what they have. I don't disagree that a rebuild is a compelling option, and I agree that it's inevitable. It's just a question of whether you do it now or later. From what I've heard coming out of the front office, JR doesn't seem ready to commit to one just yet. So, if he wants to open up his wallet and try one more time, I don't think that's a crazy idea. But his window of opportunity for doing that will shut after next season, so it's now or never. So if the Sox don't do their rebuild this winter, it'll probably begin in July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) Not necessarily. It's a smaller market, but the teams that are in the hunt in July get desperate at the deadline and will overpay for guys like Frazier and Melky. However, you can possibly gett a piece back currently on an MLB team since it's easier to replace someone in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 12:21 PM) However, you can possibly gett a piece back currently on an MLB team since it's easier to replace someone in the offseason. That's true. If the Sox could get Jackie Bradley as part of a trade-and-sign deal that included 2-3 of Boston's best prospects, I'd be all for that. But I don't know if Dombrowski would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Just doing the math, Eaton in Right and Fowler in CF would give you more WAR than Eaton in center and Reddick in RF. The defensive value of Eaton in RF vs. CF is huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:01 PM) You completely missed my point. The Sox have a more dire need for OPS than defense. It's A LOT easier to do that with a corner OF than another CF. So, as much as I like Eaton in RF, he's most likely going to have to move back to CF for the Sox to get better offensively. No, I didn't miss your point. I just think that the wrong way to go about it is to move a competent right fielder to another position that he's not so good at. We need to get better as a team and as much of a problem as ops is, team defense matters too. I would rather exhaust more resources on finding a competent cf then moving what is currently a strength of this team. When the Sox were playing well this season they had Austin Jackson in cf and Eaton in right. I'm not about to argue that it was THE reason they played well, but a good part of it. I would not mind at all if Austin Jackson was the starting cf next year. I much prefer that providing we can improve ops elsewhere. Heck, just having Morneau as your dh and Anderson at ss for the full season helps along with finding a more competent catcher than Navaro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:24 PM) Just doing the math, Eaton in Right and Fowler in CF would give you more WAR than Eaton in center and Reddick in RF. The defensive value of Eaton in RF vs. CF is huge. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Can't say this hire excites me... I think they needed a totally new voice. But I hope it works out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) They didn't discuss the coaches at all today, correct? I think they have liked Renteria for a while, so the hiring makes some sense for them. Perhaps why they aren't announcing the rest of the staff's status is they are waiting to talk to some people. I know Haber was the guy given the credit for bringing in Steverson. You have to figure he is on the hot seat. At the season ticketholder event I was at, Hahn did state they all knew the Sox were going to be OBP challenged. They had conversations with Steverson about trying to max some guys. He did say they were at the low end of the range they had figured. I know they really like Super Joe, but I wonder if he even wants to be back considering he probably feels a bit shafted not being considered or if he was, being the loser in the manager job. Boston seems replaceable. Edited October 3, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:24 PM) Just doing the math, Eaton in Right and Fowler in CF would give you more WAR than Eaton in center and Reddick in RF. The defensive value of Eaton in RF vs. CF is huge. Especially considering that Fowler was WAY better offensively than Reddick was this sesaon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:19 PM) I don't disagree that a rebuild is a compelling option, and I agree that it's inevitable. It's just a question of whether you do it now or later. From what I've heard coming out of the front office, JR doesn't seem ready to commit to one just yet. So, if he wants to open up his wallet and try one more time, I don't think that's a crazy idea. But his window of opportunity for doing that will shut after next season, so it's now or never. So if the Sox don't do their rebuild this winter, it'll probably begin in July. But you see, if JR is really this old man fearing a rebuild, I'm sure he'll angrily shake his fists and say the window will be extended because of our pitching rotation. There will always be an excuse, I've seen it on these forums and its very predictable. What exactly makes 2017 the make or break year for JR in your opinion? Especially if, as you suggest, he opens up his wallet. What sense would it make to sign some FA's to go for it one year? My concern is at this moment you have Sale and Q healthy and contributing. Both are at high value. You wait until July, God knows whether that small probability rears itself and there are health or ineffectiveness issues. You'd hope for the best obviously, but these two pitchers mean so much to the future of this franchise and it's not due to them directly helping us win a championship. Our next playoff appearance will likely be after one or both of those two are gone. I'd rather not chance anything with our top two trading chips. One or both should be dealt this winter Edited October 3, 2016 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (balfanman @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:29 PM) No, I didn't miss your point. I just think that the wrong way to go about it is to move a competent right fielder to another position that he's not so good at. We need to get better as a team and as much of a problem as ops is, team defense matters too. I would rather exhaust more resources on finding a competent cf then moving what is currently a strength of this team. When the Sox were playing well this season they had Austin Jackson in cf and Eaton in right. I'm not about to argue that it was THE reason they played well, but a good part of it. I would not mind at all if Austin Jackson was the starting cf next year. I much prefer that providing we can improve ops elsewhere. Heck, just having Morneau as your dh and Anderson at ss for the full season helps along with finding a more competent catcher than Navaro. Good God, that's an awful argument. If you think that Austin Jackson's defense in CF will make him an asset to this team, despite the 85 OPS+ that he put up this season, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Dude was a -0.1 bWAR this year. It's also extremely difficult to get decent OPS out of a catcher. I think that re-signing Avila is about the best that the Sox can expect to do. Edited October 3, 2016 by Black_Jack29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Sox do not have a protected pick at #12. I do not see any big name free agents signing that cost that pick. Trades only way team improves. I do not see what changes with Renteria he was here all year and knows the pecking order. Edited October 3, 2016 by Soxfest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:04 PM) Sox do not have a protected pick at #12. I do not see any big name free agents signing that cost that pick. Trades only way team improves. I do not see what changes with Renteria he was here all year and knows the pecking order. I am sure the roster is going to look significantly different next season. They are really stressing OBP offensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:36 PM) Good God, that's an awful argument. If you think that Austin Jackson's defense in CF will make him an asset to this team, despite the 85 OPS+ that he put up this season, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Dude was a -0.1 bWAR this year. It's also extremely difficult to get decent OPS out of a catcher. I think that re-signing Avila is about the best that the Sox can expect to do. Agree to disagree then, all's good! I've always been a defense first kind a guy and sometimes stats don't tell the whole story. I don't believe my arguement is all that awful, but to each his own. It wouldn't take that much to improve over Navaro. Personally, and I don't know who exactly is available, but I think a 2nd base improvement is the way to go. I'm not impressed with Lawrie and have decided that Saladino is a better utility guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:36 PM) Good God, that's an awful argument. If you think that Austin Jackson's defense in CF will make him an asset to this team, despite the 85 OPS+ that he put up this season, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Dude was a -0.1 bWAR this year. It's also extremely difficult to get decent OPS out of a catcher. I think that re-signing Avila is about the best that the Sox can expect to do. Agree to disagree then, all's good! I've always been a defense first kind a guy and sometimes stats don't tell the whole story. I don't believe my arguement is all that awful, but to each his own. It wouldn't take that much to improve over Navaro. Personally, and I don't know who exactly is available, but I think a 2nd base improvement is the way to go. I'm not impressed with Lawrie and have decided that Saladino is a better utility guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (balfanman @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:16 PM) Agree to disagree then, all's good! I've always been a defense first kind a guy and sometimes stats don't tell the whole story. I don't believe my arguement is all that awful, but to each his own. It wouldn't take that much to improve over Navaro. Personally, and I don't know who exactly is available, but I think a 2nd base improvement is the way to go. I'm not impressed with Lawrie and have decided that Saladino is a better utility guy. See, now this is a mature and respectful poster. No that it matters but I love this kind of attitude towards discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 If they go for it, I fully expect Carlos Gomez in CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (shipps @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:20 PM) See, now this is a mature and respectful poster. No that it matters but I love this kind of attitude towards discussion. Thank you Shipps. I just think that you can have differing opinions without being rude or insulting towards each other. Who knows whether one, both or neither one of us is right. I definitely do not consider myself a baseball "expert", just a fan expressing my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:29 PM) If they go for it, I fully expect Carlos Gomez in CF I don't think that would be the worst idea, Hawk would probably keel over in excitement though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Take it for what it's worth, but Matt Abbatacola on the Score says he has sources inside that say the preference is to move Sale over Quintana. If a team were to overpay obviously. Again, take it for what it's worth. Edited October 3, 2016 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:29 PM) If they go for it, I fully expect Carlos Gomez in CF I don't mind him in a rebuild if he'd take a one year deal since you can flip him at the deadline if he does good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:29 PM) If they go for it, I fully expect Carlos Gomez in CF I'd be fine with GoGo in CF even if they aren't clearly going for it. He's going to be relatively cheap, the man can go it in CF (or at least could), keeps Eaton in RF, and perhaps gives you a nice trade chip if he bounces back. He's OPSing .900 with Texas. I think he makes a ton of sense, outside of the fact he doesn't walk much (prior to SSS in Tex). Edited October 3, 2016 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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