Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (balfanman @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:16 PM) It wouldn't take that much to improve over Navaro. Personally, and I don't know who exactly is available, but I think a 2nd base improvement is the way to go. I'm not impressed with Lawrie and have decided that Saladino is a better utility guy. Yeah, Navarro had a hot bat for a short while early on, and then sucked. He's also horrible at pitch-framing. I don't understand the push to replace Lawrie. He's under team control for another year, he's cheap, he's decent defensively, and he's about 2 WAR. If the Sox could land a 3 WAR second baseman, then great, but I don't foresee that happening. It's also less critical when the Sox have a decent get-me-by player in Saladino and a solid utility guy in Sanchez. The best bets for improving offensive output are the corner OF and DH positions. Even a mediocre CF who can hit, such as Cespedes or Fowler, would be a huge improvement over what we had this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) Take it for what it's worth, Matt Abadacola on the Score says he has sources inside that say the preference is to move Sale over Quintana. If a team were to overpay obviously. That makes sense, especially since Sale is the power pitcher than many covet, he's something of a clubhouse cancer, and he's under team control for one season less than Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) Take it for what it's worth, but Matt Abadacola on the Score says he has sources inside that say the preference is to move Sale over Quintana. If a team were to overpay obviously. Again, take it for what it's worth. Crazier, under control for less years, not worlds better and would get more in a trade. It'd make sense. I still say if you sell either everyone other than Rodon and Anderson is on the table from the MLB roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) Yeah, Navarro had a hot bat for a short while early on, and then sucked. He's also horrible at pitch-framing. Even a mediocre CF who can hit, such as Cespedes or Fowler, would be a huge improvement over what we had this year. See, we do agree on a couple things at least! Now getting Cespedes or Fowler may prove to be difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 08:41 PM) Crazier, under control for less years, not worlds better and would get more in a trade. It'd make sense. I still say if you sell either everyone other than Rodon and Anderson is on the table from the MLB roster. Rodon should absolutely be a trade chip if you are unloading everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I'm fine with whatever criticism this club get. It's completely warranted but I'm good with this hire and I'm eager to see this team's "plan" moving forward. I am curious to see any new coaches being hired. I just dream about Omar Vizquel being hired and working with Tim year in year out. That's my choice for bench coaches I mentioned before. I'm ok with keeping coop because our pitching is solid year in year out. I'm still trying to think about hitting coach names. Maybe Raul Ibanez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I'm ok with Lawrie, but I'm ok with all the pieces individually. As a whole though, they don't fit. So in some respects, I think you're going to have to take steps back to vastly improve another position. Or as others say, plug a hole by creating maybe another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) Take it for what it's worth, but Matt Abbatacola on the Score says he has sources inside that say the preference is to move Sale over Quintana. If a team were to overpay obviously. Again, take it for what it's worth. I see this being the case too and it makes the most sense. I think they try to spin him to Boston for a package like Moncada, Benintendi, Swihart, and something in hope of plugging a couple holes while staying competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (balfanman @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:47 PM) See, we do agree on a couple things at least! Now getting Cespedes or Fowler may prove to be difficult. Indeed. Reddick is more likely, IMO, though they need to shoot higher than him if they're going for it in 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:54 PM) Rodon should absolutely be a trade chip if you are unloading everyone No, he's one of the guys that you sign to an extension ASAP and build around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:54 PM) Rodon should absolutely be a trade chip if you are unloading everyone 5 years of control...let him develop more the next season or two. Plus someone has to be in the rotation. Trading him now is stupid. Edit: I also have zero faith in him taking a team friendly extension based on who his agent is. He's on track to be a free agent at what, 28? Edited October 3, 2016 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 08:57 PM) No, he's one of the guys that you sign to an extension ASAP and build around. Boras client, doubtful he signs an extension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 08:57 PM) 5 years of control...let him develop more the next season or two. Plus someone has to be in the rotation. Trading him now is stupid. That's the thing, if you trade Sale/Q, then you aren't winning for a few years and it doesn't matter if you have 5 James Shields in your rotation. The idea of rebuilding while trying to compete is simply foolish IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:41 PM) Crazier, under control for less years, not worlds better and would get more in a trade. It'd make sense. I still say if you sell either everyone other than Rodon and Anderson is on the table from the MLB roster. I could see it if you could get some team to give ya what you want for him and you get a bundle of near ready prospects or ready prospects and some near ready guys. I still say Boston makes the most sense. I really want a full rebuild though. I'm just not sure sure if you only traded Sale, would it make us that much closer to contention? I mean if Boston gave up JBJr, Benintendi, Kopech, Devers and Vasquez is that enough? I'd take that and move on from Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) Boras client, doubtful he signs an extension No chance he does unless he gets TJ surgery and the Sox offer a big enough contract after he healed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 03:00 PM) That's the thing, if you trade Sale/Q, then you aren't winning for a few years and it doesn't matter if you have 5 James Shields in your rotation. The idea of rebuilding while trying to compete is simply foolish IMO Rodon isn't a free agent until 2022. If the Sox decide to rebuild this season, they should be competitive by 2019 or 2020. Edited October 3, 2016 by Black_Jack29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) That makes sense, especially since Sale is the power pitcher than many covet, he's something of a clubhouse cancer, and he's under team control for one season less than Q. I really, really, really don't think the Sox players view Chris as a clubhouse cancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 09:03 PM) I really, really, really don't think the Sox players view Chris as a clubhouse cancer. Maybe the players don't, but what about management? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:54 PM) Rodon should absolutely be a trade chip if you are unloading everyone Rodon is they type of guy you'd be hoping to get in deals. Trading him makes no sense. He has FIVE years of control left. Sale - 3 years Q - 4 years Rodon - 5 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 03:03 PM) I really, really, really don't think the Sox players view Chris as a clubhouse cancer. I'm sure that some of the players like him, but I'd guess that some probably don't and that the grownups in the organization (coaching staff, front office, etc.) didn't appreciate the crap that he pulled this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 03:04 PM) Maybe the players don't, but what about management? Who gives a s*** what the suits think? He's not a clubhouse cancer in the traditional sense if the guys in the clubhouse like him. He may be a pain in KW's ass, but that doesn't make him a cancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 03:06 PM) Who gives a s*** what the suits think? He's not a clubhouse cancer in the traditional sense if the guys in the clubhouse like him. Are you sure that everyone in the clubhouse likes him? Would you like him causing a media sh*tstorm for your team and destroying your jersey with scissors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 03:10 PM) Are you sure that everyone in the clubhouse likes him? Would you like him causing a media sh*tstorm TWICE for your team and destroying your jersey with scissors? Fixed that for ya haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 If we decided on a full rebuild, I'm confident they could get the promising young bats back and have the pitching to make up for it in the coming years. The team is really starting to draft better overall. We have the 12th pick, so it's a chance at another top young player along with another draft class overall. I just don't want to see anymore half-assed efforts anymore and with such a poor free agent class, we need to move our top pitchers for young prospects. We could reshape the team with Sale and Q alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 It's not like they want to throw him out. It's just if a team wants to deal with the Sox for one of our two lefties, they would rather deal Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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