Kenny Williams Leaving?

[GreenSox]

That's why I don't get some of the fans' giddiness to trade Sale or Q. The problems are in scouting and development.

 

That's true - but it's also true that the status quo won't get the Sox anywhere.

 

I'll risk Hahn trading Sale for prospects or young players...he came up with Eaton so there is some history of competence.

But my fear is that he trades Sale primarily for a veteran...and Hahn has a history of taking that bait when some team dabbles an ex all star in front of his nose.

Edited October 22, 2016 by GreenSox

[Bigsoxhurt35]

That's true - but it's also true that the status quo won't get the Sox anywhere.

 

I'll risk Hahn trading Sale for prospects or young players...he came up with Eaton so there is some history of competence.

But my fear is that he trades Sale primarily for a veteran...and Hahn has a history of taking that bait when some team dabbles an ex all star in front of his nose.

 

Hahn is better at trades than FA signings.

[Two-Gun Pete]

That's true - but it's also true that the status quo won't get the Sox anywhere.

 

I'll risk Hahn trading Sale for prospects or young players...he came up with Eaton so there is some history of competence.

But my fear is that he trades Sale primarily for a veteran...and Hahn has a history of taking that bait when some team dabbles an ex all star in front of his nose.

Eaton is so much more an outlier than the rule with this front office. What's worse, is that they didn't learn anything from making this trade, and why it worked out for them.

 

I don't know that Hahn is more into vets or garbage time heroes like Gillespie and Davidson. Regardless, color me unimpressed by his record hereto fore.

 

Hahn is better at trades than FA signings.

 

Yes, we all LOVED:

Shields

Samardzjia

Davidson

 

And many, many others. Heck the way they drove a HARD BARGAIN for Peavy to get the 5-tool stud Avi Garcia is proof that they know how to sell off assets as well.

 

If we have to go back to Eaton to look at a good trade, that's still 3 years of failure and ineptitude by these clowns.

 

[southsider2k5]

While I agree that it would be moronic to trust the mouthbreathers in the Front office to strike a decent deal for any of the team's assets, the problems go deeper than "just" in scouting and devlopment.

 

Remember, these are the imbeciles that thought that hiring RV was a good idea. And to KEEP RV, even after he had clearly failed as manager.

 

These are the morons who orignally wanted Pauly as player manager.

 

These are the cretins that hired Renteria, without having a COMPETITIVE process.

 

These are the idiots who hired an untested newbie in Getz as a departmental director.

 

 

In sum, the Front office has proven their stupidity over and over again. We could keep going all morning with chapter and verse of examples of moronic stupidity by this front office, in areas OTHER than scouting & development. And for this reason, it would be catastrophic to trust these mopes to trade Q, Sale, or ANY asset, IMO.

 

While having worked an impressive amount of insults into a single post, it is worth noting that none of this is OK on this page. Personal insults are not something we allow here. We try to exist on a slightly higher plane that that.

[hi8is]

While I agree that it would be moronic to trust the mouthbreathers in the Front office to strike a decent deal for any of the team's assets, the problems go deeper than "just" in scouting and devlopment.

 

Remember, these are the imbeciles that thought that hiring RV was a good idea. And to KEEP RV, even after he had clearly failed as manager.

 

These are the morons who orignally wanted Pauly as player manager.

 

These are the cretins that hired Renteria, without having a COMPETITIVE process.

 

These are the idiots who hired an untested newbie in Getz as a departmental director.

 

 

In sum, the Front office has proven their stupidity over and over again. We could keep going all morning with chapter and verse of examples of moronic stupidity by this front office, in areas OTHER than scouting & development. And for this reason, it would be catastrophic to trust these mopes to trade Q, Sale, or ANY asset, IMO.

I want to ride my bicycle... I want to ride my bike.

Do you have any exoctic parrots for sale, by chance?

[oldsox]

While I agree that it would be moronic to trust the mouthbreathers in the Front office to strike a decent deal for any of the team's assets, the problems go deeper than "just" in scouting and devlopment.

Funny

[caulfield12]

Not sure how much of it is the current political climate...the Cubs' ascent...or the general malaise and lack of civility in internet message board discourse, but this seems like it's going to be more and more common going forward.

 

 

[hi8is]

Not sure how much of it is the current political climate...the Cubs' ascent...or the general malaise and lack of civility in internet message board discourse, but this seems like it's going to be more and more common going forward.

You're right, exotic parrots are deplorable... I recant and apologize profusely.

[caulfield12]

You're right, exotic parrots are deplorable... I recant and apologize profusely.

 

Directed at the post you were responding to. Should have been clearer.

[hi8is]

Directed at the post you were responding to. Should have been clearer.

I know, my continued intention was to confuse and inform the new guy with comedy founded in stupidity laced wit.

[RegionSox]

You're right, exotic parrots are deplorable... I recant and apologize profusely.

I agree, I have wild parrots living in my neighborhood and they are terrible.

[tray]

I hate the Cubs, and I hate Joe Ricketss and his spoiled brat son Tom Ricketts. They could win 10 World Series in a row and I won't watch or go to a Cub game.

Ricketts ruined the charm of Wrigley Field and the Wrigleyville neighborhood and is turning it into a baseball themed Disneyland. They took half of Sheffield and want to close off streets so they can have a captive audience to profit from.

 

As far as the Sox "blowing it up" that is what the Cub fans want to see happen. It isn't a legit way to build a team any more, because there are too many bad teams vying for the top Draft choices. Therefore, there is no guarantee that a bad team will net a star like kris Bryant in the following year;'s Draft.

 

What Epstein did involved a lot of very fortunate circumstances, some very good judgment ,a virtually unlimited budget, and a whole lot of luck. He is also not operating under a salary cap.

 

I'm pulling for the Indians/.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

What Epstein did involved a lot of very fortunate circumstances, some very good judgment ,a virtually unlimited budget, and a whole lot of luck. He is also not operating under a salary cap.

 

Yep, this exactly. People say he's a godsend and just smarter than everyone else, but really, he inherited a team that was racking up top 5 draft picks, had unlimited funds to exploit international FA loopholes, and was able to sign veterans that would only be used to flip midseason for more prospects. Not saying what he did was wrong or a bad idea, but turning around the Cubs wasn't like turning around the Padres or Rays or Pirates would be. The Cubs had 0 incentive to ever try to compete while they rebuilt because their fanbase came for the party, not the team. They were going to hit their attendance goals and jersey sales even with 90+ loss seasons.

[GreenSox]

As far as the Sox "blowing it up" that is what the Cub fans want to see happen. It isn't a legit way to build a team any more, because there are too many bad teams vying for the top Draft choices. Therefore, there is no guarantee that a bad team will net a star like kris Bryant in the following year;'s Draft.

 

What Epstein did involved a lot of very fortunate circumstances, some very good judgment ,a virtually unlimited budget, and a whole lot of luck. He is also not operating under a salary cap.

 

I'm pulling for the Indians/.

You don't blow it up to get the #1 pick; as you said, there's no guarantee of that; nor is there any guarantee that Bryant will be just waiting for you.

you blow it up (or trade veterans) to get good young players into your system. That was the key to Theo's rebuilding of the Cubs, really moreso than the drafting. Major gains can be made especially in July.

 

And yet Rick Hahn repeatedly insists on doing the OPPOSITE of what successful teams that are trying to build do. Instead of dealing away the veterans, he amasses them. And not just any veteran....Hahn is first in line to pay top price for the veteran that the other team is overtly trying to dump.

And I doubt it will be any different this offseason.

Edited October 23, 2016 by GreenSox

[SCCWS]

I hate the Cubs, and I hate Joe Ricketss and his spoiled brat son Tom Ricketts. They could win 10 World Series in a row and I won't watch or go to a Cub game.

Ricketts ruined the charm of Wrigley Field and the Wrigleyville neighborhood and is turning it into a baseball themed Disneyland. They took half of Sheffield and want to close off streets so they can have a captive audience to profit from.

 

As far as the Sox "blowing it up" that is what the Cub fans want to see happen. It isn't a legit way to build a team any more, because there are too many bad teams vying for the top Draft choices. Therefore, there is no guarantee that a bad team will net a star like kris Bryant in the following year;'s Draft.

 

What Epstein did involved a lot of very fortunate circumstances, some very good judgment ,a virtually unlimited budget, and a whole lot of luck. He is also not operating under a salary cap.

 

I'm pulling for the Indians/.

 

When Theo was hired by the Cubs, numerous posters on this site said very similiar things about his success in Boston. Regardless it was under his watch that the Red Sox ended their drought. As a White Sox fan living in New England I was glad to see him go. But I give him credit in that he has resurrected a worse situation with the Cubs than he did in Boston.

 

He knows how to run a FO. I think he surrounds himself with people who have an eye for talent.

[Chicago White Sox]

When Theo was hired by the Cubs, numerous posters on this site said very similiar things about his success in Boston. Regardless it was under his watch that the Red Sox ended their drought. As a White Sox fan living in New England I was glad to see him go. But I give him credit in that he has resurrected a worse situation with the Cubs than he did in Boston.

 

He knows how to run a FO. I think he surrounds himself with people who have an eye for talent.

Pretty sure Dan Duquette deserves a lot of credit for that first Red Sox team to win a World Series.

[iamshack]

When Theo was hired by the Cubs, numerous posters on this site said very similiar things about his success in Boston. Regardless it was under his watch that the Red Sox ended their drought. As a White Sox fan living in New England I was glad to see him go. But I give him credit in that he has resurrected a worse situation with the Cubs than he did in Boston.

 

He knows how to run a FO. I think he surrounds himself with people who have an eye for talent.

Good post. I also think he chose the Cubs as an opportunity to prove he could do it...the Cubs were basically the Holy Grail, even more so than Boston perhaps...and he's proven he could turn them around and into something no one else has been able to do.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Yep, this exactly. People say he's a godsend and just smarter than everyone else, but really, he inherited a team that was racking up top 5 draft picks, had unlimited funds to exploit international FA loopholes, and was able to sign veterans that would only be used to flip midseason for more prospects. Not saying what he did was wrong or a bad idea, but turning around the Cubs wasn't like turning around the Padres or Rays or Pirates would be. The Cubs had 0 incentive to ever try to compete while they rebuilt because their fanbase came for the party, not the team. They were going to hit their attendance goals and jersey sales even with 90+ loss seasons.

 

 

Theo is the best executive in baseball. He has been for quite some time. Pretending otherwise is pretty silly IMO.

[iamshack]

Theo is the best executive in baseball. He has been for quite some time. Pretending otherwise is pretty silly IMO.

Yeah, the money is nice and all, but he's done this the long way, not the easy, quick way. He deserves all the credit he gets.

[The Beast]

I went through the entire Cubs roster today and through all of the transactions that brought these players to their organization. 9 trades yielded Wood, Rizzo, Hendricks, Grimm, Edwards, Arrieta, Strop, Russell, Montero, Fowler and Chapman. The draft, free agency and two international signings yielded mostly the rest.

 

So, is the issue really the scouting and development of the White Sox organization, or is it JR's "win now" philosophy? I'd say both, but I can't see the Sox succeeding for years to come unless they start the rebuild. I look at our roster and see a talent shortage compared to other teams and would hope that they'd be able to rebuild by dealing the veterans and getting rid of some of mediocre players on the team. I'd hope they'd realize that they can't keep grinding out these one run games and win with a patched up team like this. They've got to get an influx of talent to compete.

 

You've got to think they should be able to flip players like Sale, Quintana, Robertson, Abreu, Frazier, Cabrera (okay, maybe it's a stretch) and even Eaton and get enough talent to get something going. Would doing that really hurt the organization and move the team? I can't see them becoming that bad...they might even be more exciting and less frustrating to watch. I'll take watching some miscues and losses over seeing major league ballplayers who lose winnable games (KC, Texas, Seattle) and get s*** on by the division all year any day of the week.

[Lip Man 1]

As I've often said they are between a rock and a hard place with no clear answer or direct path until or unless (in my opinion) new ownership arrives or the existing ownership purges the front office on the baseball side and brings in successful people from completely outside "the family..."

 

Your points are good ones but again, do you trust this front office who put the franchise in this position in the first place to dig them out of it? And by front office I also include the people in charge of minor league talent / development and major league scouting.

 

Mark

Edited October 23, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[The Beast]

As I've often said they are between a rock and a hard place with no clear answer or direct path until or unless (in my opinion) new ownership arrives or the existing ownership purges the front office on the baseball side and brings in successful people from completely outside "the family..."

 

Your points are good ones but again, do you trust this front office who put the franchise in this position in the first place to dig them out of it? And by front office I also include the people in charge of minor league talent / development and major league scouting.

 

Mark

I don't trust them, but if we wait for JR to die and have the team sold for the team to be rebuilt, then it's going to take a long time to get into the postseason. I would rather them get started on the rebuild than be mired in mediocrity and keep acquiring has beens.

[GreenSox]

Your points are good ones but again, do you trust this front office who put the franchise in this position in the first place to dig them out of it? And by front office I also include the people in charge of minor league talent / development and major league scouting.

 

From what I've seen, Hahn isn't much above average at anything re evaluating personnel (he's a contracts guy, and pretty good at it).

BUT, he seems at least competent (if not a little better than competent) when it comes to drafting, and dispersing veterans for young players.

 

He has been utterly incompetent in his pursuit of veterans...they under-perform and he is a poor negotiator. He claimed (with a straight face) that Shields' decline was unforeseen and unprecedented.

Hahn has "gone for it" two years in a row and the results have been embarrassing (for a team that is "going for it").

 

Thus, given that he is the GM, I think the Sox have a better chance of amassing talent and ultimately winning if he sheds these vets for young players versus trading young players for more veterans.

Edited October 23, 2016 by GreenSox

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Theo is the best executive in baseball. He has been for quite some time. Pretending otherwise is pretty silly IMO.

 

I would take Freidman.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I went through the entire Cubs roster today and through all of the transactions that brought these players to their organization. 9 trades yielded Wood, Rizzo, Hendricks, Grimm, Edwards, Arrieta, Strop, Russell, Montero, Fowler and Chapman. The draft, free agency and two international signings yielded mostly the rest.

 

Fowler was signed.