Lip Man 1 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Folks: Just some numbers that may be of interest to you for discussion purposes. To me its pretty clear what the needs are (not counting of course a front office, field managers and coaches who really know what they are doing) offense and the bullpen. Given a less than stellar free agent market it will be interesting to see how the Sox solve these areas assuming they are "going for it again." (And everything I've been hearing is that they will but time will tell...things can change) White Sox By the Numbers… The Sox went 78 - 84 this season, a .481 win percentage. That is a two game improvement over 2015. It is the team’s fourth straight losing season and seventh in the last 10 years. You have to go back to 1986 through 1989 the last time the Sox had four losing seasons in a row and you have to go back to the time period from 1968 through 1980 the last time they had such a sustained period of losing. The 13 seasons from 68-80 saw the club have only two winning seasons and a .500 year in that time span. They started the season going 23-10 then lost 24 of their next 34 games. They failed to make the playoffs for the 8th straight season. Playoff appearances by teams in the A.L. Central Division (1994-2016) Cleveland= 9 Minnesota= 6 Detroit= 5 White Sox = 3 Kansas City = 2 The Sox scored three runs or less in 74 out of 162 games. That’s 45.6% Here’s how that has compared to recent years: 2013: Sox scored three runs or less in 82 of 162 games played (50.6%) 2014: Sox scored three runs or less in 77 of 162 games played (47.5%) 2015: Sox scored three runs or less in 82 of 162 games played (50.6%) The Sox were shutout 11 times. The Sox scored one run in a game 20 times. The Sox scored two runs in a game 19 times. The Sox lost 22 games this year when holding an opponent to three runs or less. The White Sox were 6-22 (.214) at Cleveland, Detroit and Kansas City this season. The White Sox are 50-88 (.362) at Cleveland, Detroit and Kansas City 2012-2016 seasons. Robin Ventura is 375-435 .462 win percentage in his five years as manager. That is the worst win percentage in franchise history for any manager who lasted at least five years. Here is how it compares: Ventura .462 Dykes .489 Tanner .492 LaRussa .504 Manuel .515 Guillen .524 Lopez .562 The White Sox won 15 games when trailing in the 7th inning or later. The breakdown: 7th inning: 4 times 8th inning: 7 times 9th inning: 4 times The White Sox lost 14 games when leading in the 7th inning or later. The breakdown: 7th inning: 3 times 8th inning: 8 times 9th inning: 2 times 11th inning: 1 time What pitchers were responsible for those blown leads/games? Here is the breakdown (some games had more than one pitcher…) Jones: 6 times Robertson: 3 times Albers: 2 times Duke: 2 times Beck: 1 time Carroll: 1 time Fullmer: 1 time Kahnle: 1 time Sale: 1 time White Sox were7-7 in extra inning games in 2016. I hope everyone has a good, safe off season. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Thanks for the recap Lip, much appreciated. Robin did say one thing yesterday that I hope is very true. He said that the team needed a new voice in the clubhouse. That "could" do more for this team than any trade or free agent acquisition. Whether or not Rick Renteria can provide that spark, or is even considered a "new" voice or not remains to be seen. I can only have hope that this is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 On the downside apparently nothing good happened this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Anderson and Eaton were the big positives. Melky played much better and more consistently than 2015, but will we get that similar performance next year? Abreu ended on an upbeat note, to the point where there's at least not another question mark attached to his name. Rodon was more inconsistent than was expected...there was hope for him to make a big jump and it felt closer to treading water. Saladino and Morneau were definitely feel good stories, but there are still serious doubts whether either are regulars...not on a playoff team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 04:57 PM) Folks: Just some numbers that may be of interest to you for discussion purposes. To me its pretty clear what the needs are (not counting of course a front office, field managers and coaches who really know what they are doing) offense and the bullpen. Given a less than stellar free agent market it will be interesting to see how the Sox solve these areas assuming they are "going for it again." (And everything I've been hearing is that they will but time will tell...things can change) White Sox By the Numbers… The Sox went 78 - 84 this season, a .481 win percentage. That is a two game improvement over 2015. It is the team’s fourth straight losing season and seventh in the last 10 years. You have to go back to 1986 through 1989 the last time the Sox had four losing seasons in a row and you have to go back to the time period from 1968 through 1980 the last time they had such a sustained period of losing. The 13 seasons from 68-80 saw the club have only two winning seasons and a .500 year in that time span. They started the season going 23-10 then lost 24 of their next 34 games. They failed to make the playoffs for the 8th straight season. Playoff appearances by teams in the A.L. Central Division (1994-2016) Cleveland= 9 Minnesota= 6 Detroit= 5 White Sox = 3 Kansas City = 2 The Sox scored three runs or less in 74 out of 162 games. That’s 45.6% Here’s how that has compared to recent years: 2013: Sox scored three runs or less in 82 of 162 games played (50.6%) 2014: Sox scored three runs or less in 77 of 162 games played (47.5%) 2015: Sox scored three runs or less in 82 of 162 games played (50.6%) The Sox were shutout 11 times. The Sox scored one run in a game 20 times. The Sox scored two runs in a game 19 times. The Sox lost 22 games this year when holding an opponent to three runs or less. The White Sox were 6-22 (.214) at Cleveland, Detroit and Kansas City this season. The White Sox are 50-88 (.362) at Cleveland, Detroit and Kansas City 2012-2016 seasons. Robin Ventura is 375-435 .462 win percentage in his five years as manager. That is the worst win percentage in franchise history for any manager who lasted at least five years. Here is how it compares: Ventura .462 Dykes .489 Tanner .492 LaRussa .504 Manuel .515 Guillen .524 Lopez .562 The White Sox won 15 games when trailing in the 7th inning or later. The breakdown: 7th inning: 4 times 8th inning: 7 times 9th inning: 4 times The White Sox lost 14 games when leading in the 7th inning or later. The breakdown: 7th inning: 3 times 8th inning: 8 times 9th inning: 2 times 11th inning: 1 time What pitchers were responsible for those blown leads/games? Here is the breakdown (some games had more than one pitcher…) Jones: 6 times Robertson: 3 times Albers: 2 times Duke: 2 times Beck: 1 time Carroll: 1 time Fullmer: 1 time Kahnle: 1 time Sale: 1 time White Sox were7-7 in extra inning games in 2016. I hope everyone has a good, safe off season. Mark The scariest part of this season is that after the 23-10 start, for the rest of the 129 games on the schedule, which represented 80% of the season, the team played at a winning percentage that over an entire season would have produced a 100 loss season. That's what makes all of this talk about "going for it" next year questionable, at least at the moment. The starting point is a roster that played very poorly from early May all the way until early October. So with that in mind, it will be interesting, indeed, to see how the front office conducts itself this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 08:52 AM) On the downside apparently nothing good happened this season. This game is a "bottom-line" business. The bottom line is the won/lost record. So while there were some fine individual performances the team / organization as a whole failed once again to even have a winning season. As stated that's four years in a row and seven out of the last 10. Generally speaking with that track record over a good period of time, good individual performances while nice are meaningless to me by and large. Feel free to put together a list of all the positive things if you wish. Every year, good or bad, I stick to the categories that I posted because I personally think they are relevant and important. And I hope you noticed I did post the number of times and the breakdown of games the Sox came from behind to win when trailing in the 7th inning or later. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Lip needed to interview Robin and he wouldn't bash him so much. Just look at the managers he interviewed and has name dropped over the years. Chuck Tanner has virtually the same winning percentage as a manager Robin had. Throw away 1990 for Jeff Torborg, and his is worse. And he got fired by a team below .500 who went on the win the WS that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Can you rename this thread "depression by the numbers" please?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 10:26 AM) The scariest part of this season is that after the 23-10 start, for the rest of the 129 games on the schedule, which represented 80% of the season, the team played at a winning percentage that over an entire season would have produced a 100 loss season. That's what makes all of this talk about "going for it" next year questionable, at least at the moment. The starting point is a roster that played very poorly from early May all the way until early October. So with that in mind, it will be interesting, indeed, to see how the front office conducts itself this offseason. Take out the 10-24 stretch and you are left with the complete opposite result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 12:39 PM) This game is a "bottom-line" business. The bottom line is the won/lost record. So while there were some fine individual performances the team / organization as a whole failed once again to even have a winning season. As stated that's four years in a row and seven out of the last 10. Generally speaking with that track record over a good period of time, good individual performances while nice are meaningless to me by and large. Feel free to put together a list of all the positive things if you wish. Every year, good or bad, I stick to the categories that I posted because I personally think they are relevant and important. And I hope you noticed I did post the number of times and the breakdown of games the Sox came from behind to win when trailing in the 7th inning or later. Mark The big thing I am going to take away from this season is Tyler Saladino, Tim Anderson, and Miguel Gonzalez. While on the surface it isn't much, what it does show is that the White Sox are producing starting caliber position players that they are drafting and developing out of their farm system. You can also include guys like Marcus Semien and Tracye Thompson if you like, but at the end of the day what it means is that the combination of Hoestetler and Bell are indeed capable of not only finding talent, but in giving it the tools to get the major leagues and contribute. It is also showing that the Sox still have the golden touch when it comes to pitching. I am also going to take away Marco Paddy. While he was hired in November 2011, because of the nature of his job the results of his work are finally starting to show. He signed his first class of 16 year olds for the White Sox in July of 2012. He now has kids moving into the middle tiers of our minor league system. The lower levels are loaded with Latin American talent. Our FutureSox top prospect lists are filling up with products of Marco Paddy's work. Somewhere around half of the Arizona rookie team's roster this year is a direct result of this. Personally those are the two biggest things I am going to take away from this season, because they are going to be cornerstones of the future of this squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:58 PM) The big thing I am going to take away from this season is Tyler Saladino, Tim Anderson, and Miguel Gonzalez. While on the surface it isn't much, what it does show is that the White Sox are producing starting caliber position players that they are drafting and developing out of their farm system. You can also include guys like Marcus Semien and Tracye Thompson if you like, but at the end of the day what it means is that the combination of Hoestetler and Bell are indeed capable of not only finding talent, but in giving it the tools to get the major leagues and contribute. It is also showing that the Sox still have the golden touch when it comes to pitching. I am also going to take away Marco Paddy. While he was hired in November 2011, because of the nature of his job the results of his work are finally starting to show. He signed his first class of 16 year olds for the White Sox in July of 2012. He now has kids moving into the middle tiers of our minor league system. The lower levels are loaded with Latin American talent. Our FutureSox top prospect lists are filling up with products of Marco Paddy's work. Somewhere around half of the Arizona rookie team's roster this year is a direct result of this. Personally those are the two biggest things I am going to take away from this season, because they are going to be cornerstones of the future of this squad. Your points are well taken although Saladino with the herniated disc in his lower back now has to be considered a real question mark moving forward even if the don't have to do surgery which is being discussed since Robin said he hadn't responded as well as hoped to treatment. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) Take out the 10-24 stretch and you are left with the complete opposite result. You'd be left with a wildly inconsistent team 5 games below the .500 mark...which is exactly where they finished. Once they were seven games under, they only got back to that mark once I think, then faltered again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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