Rumors that Cespedes is opting out

[SCCWS]

Agree that Betts is unlikely. I thought I said so. But if another starter gets bombed and they're swept, you'll see panic in Boston this off-season. Also don't sleep on the Yankees but will have to give up Gary Sanchez.

 

I don't think you will see panic in Boston. They are coming off 2 terrible seasons where they finished last in AL East. Down the stretch they owned their main rivals in O's and Jays. They made a boatload of money this year in both attendance and merchandise sale. They have 4 young players in starting lineup and more talent on the way. But making the playoffs for them is not a goal but more an expectation. So I think Dombowski will be busy. Many forget they lost their #3 starter and All-Star mid-year this year in Wright. Benintendi made a splash down the stretch. Moncada, however. was a flop. Both were rushed to the majors skipping AAA.

 

Living in Red Sox country, my take. I hope to hell Sale does not end up in Boston. I think Dombrowski will make moves and trade one of Moncada or Benintendi. My guess, he will package the one w another prospect( Devers or Kopech), a SP ( Buchholtz or Pomerantz) and Shaw or Holt and add a 2-3 starter and a lefty reliever. keep an eye on Sonny Gray. He will not trade Betts or Bradley. Benintendi and Betts are a step down from Bradley defensively, the reason why both had to learn new positions.

 

Hopefully they get swept tonight although the game may get rained out.

Edited October 9, 2016 by SCCWS

[zisk]

I don't think you will see panic in Boston. They are coming off 2 terrible seasons where they finished last in AL East. Down the stretch they owned their main rivals in O's and Jays. They made a boatload of money this year in both attendance and merchandise sale. They have 4 young players in starting lineup and more talent on the way. But making the playoffs for them is not a goal but more an expectation. So I think Dombowski will be busy. Many forget they lost their #3 starter and All-Star mid-year this year in Wright. Benintendi made a splash down the stretch. Moncada, however. was a flop. Both were rushed to the majors skipping AAA.

 

Living in Red Sox country, my take. I hope to hell Sale does not end up in Boston. I think Dombrowski will make moves and trade one of Moncada or Benintendi. My guess, he will package the one w another prospect( Devers or Kopech), a SP ( Buchholtz or Pomerantz) and Shaw or Holt and add a 2-3 starter and a lefty reliever. keep an eye on Sonny Gray. He will not trade Betts or Bradley. Benintendi and Betts are a step down from Bradley defensively, the reason why both had to learn new positions.

 

Hopefully they get swept tonight although the game may get rained out.

 

[zisk]

 

sonny gray is good, sale is an ace.

 

benitendi, pomerantz,kopec and either devers or moncada for sale.

[Chicago White Sox]

I don't think you will see panic in Boston. They are coming off 2 terrible seasons where they finished last in AL East. Down the stretch they owned their main rivals in O's and Jays. They made a boatload of money this year in both attendance and merchandise sale. They have 4 young players in starting lineup and more talent on the way. But making the playoffs for them is not a goal but more an expectation. So I think Dombowski will be busy. Many forget they lost their #3 starter and All-Star mid-year this year in Wright. Benintendi made a splash down the stretch. Moncada, however. was a flop. Both were rushed to the majors skipping AAA.

 

Living in Red Sox country, my take. I hope to hell Sale does not end up in Boston. I think Dombrowski will make moves and trade one of Moncada or Benintendi. My guess, he will package the one w another prospect( Devers or Kopech), a SP ( Buchholtz or Pomerantz) and Shaw or Holt and add a 2-3 starter and a lefty reliever. keep an eye on Sonny Gray. He will not trade Betts or Bradley. Benintendi and Betts are a step down from Bradley defensively, the reason why both had to learn new positions.

 

Hopefully they get swept tonight although the game may get rained out.

The Red Sox don't have a legit ace though and that's always going to be a problem in the playoffs. Given his history, I can't see Dombrowksi ignoring this obvious need if they lose in the first round. He'll want to get that ace and Sale will be the best starting pitcher available by far. Makes too much sense for both sides to be honest.

[Chicago White Sox]

sonny gray is good, sale is an ace.

 

benitendi, pomerantz,kopec and either devers or moncada for sale.

Why in hell would you want Pomeranz? He's only under control for two more seasons and has been a dissapointment in the AL. Give me Rodriguez all day and his five years of control.

[WBWSF]

The latest rumor is that the Giants are willing to spend big money to sign Cespedes.

[zisk]

Why in hell would you want Pomeranz? He's only under control for two more seasons and has been a dissapointment in the AL. Give me Rodriguez all day and his five years of control.

 

[zisk]

 

 

IF we get pomerantz in the deal ,he will be a 2 year stop gap starter.

 

You may not like him but he is at least a league average starter.

 

He will allow us not to rush eric Hansen and spencer adams while still giving the team a chance to compete.

 

Zisk

[ChiSox59]

JBJ, Benintendi, Rodriguez, Devers and Kopech for Sale.

 

Let the Red Sox keep Moncada, trade Devers who would then be blocked. Gives Sox Sales replacement in rotation in Rodriguez and another high upside arm in Kopech.

 

Melky goes to DH. Sox OF defense is fantastic. That team could compete without Sale and signing a big time FA.

[ChiSox59]

JBJ, Benintendi, Rodriguez, Devers and Kopech for Sale.

 

Let the Red Sox keep Moncada, trade Devers who would then be blocked. Gives Sox Sales replacement in rotation in Rodriguez and another high upside arm in Kopech.

 

Melky goes to DH. Sox OF defense is fantastic. That team could compete without Sale and signing a big time FA.

 

Could even give them Melky in that deal if it gets it done. Resign Morneau or some other LH 1B/DH type. Id obviously prefer to keep Melky if they'd do that deal without him. Boston is going to want to make a big splash when they get swept today. Think this is a real possibility.

[Chicago White Sox]

Could even give them Melky in that deal if it gets it done. Resign Morneau or some other LH 1B/DH type. Id obviously prefer to keep Melky if they'd do that deal without him. Boston is going to want to make a big splash when they get swept today. Think this is a real possibility.

I think there is no chance the Red Sox trade both JBJ & Benintendi for Sale. They're simply not going to create two holes in their outfield.

[ChiSox59]

I think there is no chance the Red Sox trade both JBJ & Benintendi for Sale. They're simply not going to create two holes in their outfield.

 

Meh. If we gave them Melky back that fills one hole. They have Brock Holt. They can always sign a FA.

 

We're talking about one of the best 3 pitchers in the game here. We have the leverage. It's going to have to be painful for the Red Sox.

[dpd9189]

I think an under the radar team for Sale is the Cardinals. They always have good prospects and they need to do something to close the gap between them and the Cubs. They missed out on the playoffs this year by 1 game, add Sale to that team and they most likely get in as a WC and win the WC game.

[Jose Abreu]

No chance they offer Betts.

 

I've already mentioned the problems with JBJ but there's no way they would include Benintendi with him because that would leave 2 holes in their OF. If you ask for JBJ (major league starter for them) and Moncada they are going to put up a ton of resistance to give up more than a Kopech or Vazquez beyond the first 2. Just ask for all their prospects (Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, and maybe Vazquez like you mentioned) and be done with it.

 

The only way it would make sense to keep Quintana is if the team re-signs Frazier to be a 1B after next season. Lineup going into 2018 could look something like this:

 

LF - FA/Cabrera?/Saladino?/Collins?

CF - Benintendi

RF - Eaton

3B - Devers

SS - Anderson

2B - Moncada

1B - Frazier

DH - Abreu

C - Vazquez

 

Util - Saladino (super utility and plays LF when Collins is catching)

C - Collins (backup C but plays most days in LF)

 

Q

Rodon

FA

2 of Gonzalez/Hansen/Kopech/Fulmer/Adams/2017 #1 Draft Pick

 

Rotation would have a few more holes though. That has the potential to be a really nice lineup. We'd probably need to sign a #3 ish starter in FA. I think in 2019 we could make a run at the division/wild card with that lineup.

I just hate the idea of a half-sell, which is what this is unless we dealt Quintana as well.

[Jose Abreu]

By the way, can't Jason Groome be traded this offseason? What about Benintendi/Kopech/Groome/Devers/Vasquez for Sale? (If they're adamant on no-Moncada).

 

Of course, if our dumb FO still insists on Jackie Bradley as the centerpiece, then this is all irrelevant anyway.

[Dick Allen]

By the way, can't Jason Groome be traded this offseason? What about Benintendi/Kopech/Groome/Devers/Vasquez for Sale? (If they're adamant on no-Moncada).

 

Of course, if our dumb FO still insists on Jackie Bradley as the centerpiece, then this is all irrelevant anyway.

If that package was available for Sale, the trade would have been made in July. It wouldn't have killed their line up. As much as it makes sense Sale is worth all those pieces, the Sox aren't going to get all those pieces. It is too much for one guy who pitches once every 5 days. To replace that, it would more than offset the deal In which Sale is signed.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

There are so many faults in pitch framing stats that I put little value in them. There is just no way to accurately measure how well a catcher is framing pitches in comparison to another when they are catching two different pitching staffs and with different umpires behind the plate. The eye test certainly says the Sox were not good in that department this year with Navarro being worse than Avila but even the best framing catchers versus the worst is only maybe 3-4 pitches per game.

Boy am I glad to see some support for pitch framing being something that people act like is so damn important when it's not and most fans have no idea what to look for with it. All the talk about computer umps for balls and strikea should tell you all you need to know about pitch framing.

 

With what it says here. http://www.geekwire.com/2016/hbo-throws-st...pare-computers/ Umps are only accurate on balls and strikes 88 percent of the time which means 30,000 mistakes per year. Of course pitch framing advocates will say that just proves how important framing is.

 

Anyway interesting article based on the Real Sports with Bryan Gumbel segment.

Edited October 10, 2016 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Chicago White Sox]

If that package was available for Sale, the trade would have been made in July. It wouldn't have killed their line up. As much as it makes sense Sale is worth all those pieces, the Sox aren't going to get all those pieces. It is too much for one guy who pitches once every 5 days. To replace that, it would more than offset the deal In which Sale is signed.

Got to disagree here. We have no idea what the White Sox asked for, but some rumors suggested they wanted an impact major league talent in return like Betts or JBJ, which could explain why a deal didn't take place. Perhaps they're expectations change headlining into the offseason. We also don't know what the Red Sox were offering at the deadline. A first round loss due to pitching failures could force Dombrowski's hand and result in a better offer. There could also be more teams in the sweepstakes for Sale, also potentially resulting in a better offer from the Red Sox assuming they remain interested.

 

As for the amount of talent, I don't think a Benintendi/Devers led package is all that ridiculous. Look what teams have been paying for top end pitching. A Cole Hamels type package should be the bare minimum in terms of expectations and I think someone will pay that in this market. I'm not sure Jose Abreu's proposed package is really that much crazier than what the Phillies got...I actually think it's a bit light. I think you're underselling Sale's value here.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Got to disagree here. We have no idea what the White Sox asked for, but some rumors suggested they wanted an impact major league talent in return like Betts or JBJ, which could explain why a deal didn't take place. Perhaps they're expectations change headlining into the offseason. We also don't know what the Red Sox were offering at the deadline. A first round loss due to pitching failures could force Dombrowski's hand and result in a better offer. There could also be more teams in the sweepstakes for Sale, also potentially resulting in a better offer from the Red Sox assuming they remain interested.

 

As for the amount of talent, I don't think a Benintendi/Devers led package is all that ridiculous. Look what teams have been paying for top end pitching. A Cole Hamels type package should be the bare minimum in terms of expectations and I think someone will pay that in this market. I'm not sure Jose Abreu's proposed package is really that much crazier than what the Phillies got...I actually think it's a bit light. I think you're underselling Sale's value here.

 

And the Red Sox can plug a hole in left with a Desmond, Reddick, Cespedes signing.

[Reddy]

We don't have any elite tier players offensively. We have a number of nice players that are capable of putting up one great season but no perennial offensive all stars.

 

1) Very few teams have perennial offensive all stars actually

 

2) Abreu, Frazier (~100 rbi and 40 hr in a down year) and Eaton are all elite offensive players at their respective positions.

 

With a core of Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Frazier and Eaton, we SHOULD be able to put together a hell of a team with the money we spend. Unfortunately we blow it on KW love-fest guys instead of players who will actually contribute

[Balta1701]

1) Very few teams have perennial offensive all stars actually

 

2) Abreu, Frazier (~100 rbi and 40 hr in a down year) and Eaton are all elite offensive players at their respective positions.

 

With a core of Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Frazier and Eaton, we SHOULD be able to put together a hell of a team with the money we spend. Unfortunately we blow it on KW love-fest guys instead of players who will actually contribute

Jose Abreu had the 9th best OPS in the big leagues among 1b. Todd Frazier had the 15th best OPS in MLB among 3b. They're elite in the sense that their performance is significantly better than an average human being - I, for example, could not put up numbers comparable to those. But when we start limiting the comparison to guys in the big leagues?

 

Martin Prado had a better OPS than Todd Frazier. While the long ball may be attractive, that alone does not make you "elite". These guys are solid big leaguers, but those seasons were no where near "elite".

[Bob Sacamano]

If that package was available for Sale, the trade would have been made in July. It wouldn't have killed their line up. As much as it makes sense Sale is worth all those pieces, the Sox aren't going to get all those pieces. It is too much for one guy who pitches once every 5 days. To replace that, it would more than offset the deal In which Sale is signed.

 

Technically it couldn't have been due to Groome being ineligible.

[Reddy]

Jose Abreu had the 9th best OPS in the big leagues among 1b. Todd Frazier had the 15th best OPS in MLB among 3b. They're elite in the sense that their performance is significantly better than an average human being - I, for example, could not put up numbers comparable to those. But when we start limiting the comparison to guys in the big leagues?

 

Martin Prado had a better OPS than Todd Frazier. While the long ball may be attractive, that alone does not make you "elite". These guys are solid big leaguers, but those seasons were no where near "elite".

I'm aware they had down years.

 

Frazier, for instance, had a BABIP 42 points below his career average.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Reddy

[Balta1701]

I'm aware they had down years.

 

Frazier, for instance, had a BABIP 42 points below his career average.

And in 2015 when he had a BABIP slightly above his career average, he had the 7th highest OPS out of qualified 3b. He's a strong big leaguer, but taking a guy that is solid and declaring him to be elite has bitten us in the tail 2 years in a row. A guy doesn't become a top of the league player just because we say he will be, and planning a roster assuming that a guy is elite when he isn't sets you up for failure.

[Jose Abreu]

I'm aware they had down years.

 

Frazier, for instance, had a BABIP 42 points below his career average.

A lot of that was due to many more pop-ups and more weak contact