Price rising for Sale and Q

[Balta1701]

I think they look at it differently. They got little production out of 3B and LF last season. Benintnedi is a major upgrade in LF and either Moncada, Holt or Panda will play 3rd. I think Moncada needs a year in AAA but I guess ST will determine that. Either way, they will probably get more production than they got from Shaw/Hill at 3rd.

I see people on this site thinking Encarnicion is headed to Boston. See very little on that locally. Thought is they will want a lefty not a righty with their present roster.

Random brainstorm barely worth noting - if they were to give up Moncada, Frazier would become a reasonable fit for them at 3b, thus moving Sandoval directly to DH most of the time and perhaps alleviating their need to DH hunt in the process.

[Bob Sacamano]

Random brainstorm barely worth noting - if they were to give up Moncada, Frazier would become a reasonable fit for them at 3b, thus moving Sandoval directly to DH most of the time and perhaps alleviating their need to DH hunt in the process.

 

I wonder what other teams could use Frazier? Mets could be a team looking for one if they end up moving Wright to 1B.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

lol, apparently the Boston front office was up early this morning writing propaganda. If they had no interest in these guys because of their six starters, they wouldn't have been sniffing around them three months ago. GMAB. Add to that a first round sweep, and the pressure goes UP on them to make a move, not down.

Lol no kidding. Good luck with that rotation again.

[Jose Abreu]

I don't even want an "established veteran" from Boston. I'm more than fine with Sale/Robertson for Benintendi/Groome/Kopech + a couple other pieces. Needing an established veteran back rather than 5 very good prospects just screams "we want to trade Sale but still compete in 2017" which, to me, sounds horrible.

[dmbjeff]

I could see this being a plausible basis for such a deal, but the problem with those 2 being the package means the White Sox will not get an "established big leaguer" which is why I think people keep looking at JBJ. The issue therefore on that setup might be more the White Sox than the Red Sox.

 

When you get 2 top 10 prospects in baseball, they are just about major league ready. Established big leaguer doesn't do much for me, just eating up more service time. 1 of the 2 will be a stud, if not both. I think they both will be great personally. Benitendi is big league ready already, he was starting in the playoffs and Moncada needs a little bit more time in the minors and should be ready by June.

Edited October 11, 2016 by dmbjeff

[iamshack]

I don't even want an "established veteran" from Boston. I'm more than fine with Sale/Robertson for Benintendi/Groome/Kopech + a couple other pieces. Needing an established veteran back rather than 5 very good prospects just screams "we want to trade Sale but still compete in 2017" which, to me, sounds horrible.

I think it is more a fear of looking like fools if none of the prospects turn into much.

[Jose Abreu]

I think it is more a fear of looking like fools if none of the prospects turn into much.

But when you're getting 5(ish) of them, and high value ones, the odds of all of them being busts/below average players are so slim.

[GreenSox]

With Anderson graduated and no other position players on the cusp, the Sox need to add youth to the lineup. I am with you on best group of players, but acquiring 1 or 2 MLB players brings immediate value while decreasing and diversifying risk.

Who do you have in mind?

[Bob Sacamano]

Who do you have in mind?

 

He had said in a few posts Jackie Bradley Jr and Eduardo Rodriguez.

[iamshack]

He had said in a few posts Jackie Bradley Jr and Eduardo Rodriguez.

I actually really like Rodriguez. I haven't seen Kopech, or some of the other arms being discussed, but I do think he is a kid that could be a #2-3 and slot right in behind Rodon, should we trade one of Sale/Q.

 

JBJ, I can see the value, and adding defensive value seems to be something that is a bit more predictable than offense (particularly for us), but I agree with those that would rather see the return be more prospect-based.

[GreenSox]

He had said in a few posts Jackie Bradley Jr and Eduardo Rodriguez.

Okay - those guys pretty risky too, like prospects. Both could be really good- or flop. Unfinished players.

Jr's defense isn't risky, though.

With those 2, not sure you'd get more than 1 top prospect added on.

 

I wonder what other teams could use Frazier? Mets could be a team looking for one if they end up moving Wright to 1B.

He's a guy whom I think the Sox could get a lot more for if they traded him in June (and if he's having a good year). In June, when a team realizes they are a contender, they aren't so worried about 1 year on contract..prefer it in many cases.

Edited October 12, 2016 by GreenSox

[Bigsoxhurt35]

With Anderson graduated and no other position players on the cusp, the Sox need to add youth to the lineup. I am with you on best group of players, but acquiring 1 or 2 MLB players brings immediate value while decreasing and diversifying risk. Plus, part of Boston's allure is their relative surpluses. They'd probably rather include some MLB guys rather than just strip the top of their farm completely.

 

 

Agree wholeheartedly. It's a fun debate for sure but they definitely don't want to wipe out their farm. Including a guy like JBJ helps ease having to use all of the farm and depending on the deal they could slide Benintendi in JBJs spot theoretically.

 

 

 

 

 

[Thad Bosley]

I don't think the Red Sox would move both JBJ and Benintendi. I know you've said the same earlier in the thread, but I don't think a rental of Melky really changes anything. JBJ and Benintendi are both franchise CFers. The BoSox could move one, but moving both would take a huge strength and turn it into a huge hole. Neither Melky Cabrera or Brock Holt will make a difference in that regard.

 

I do think a lot of posters on this board are underrating JBJ. I know we're trading the best asset the White Sox have ever had in this hypothetical and people want better than JBJ as a headliner, but JBJ is a .340-.360 OBP guy with 20+ dingers and great defense. Other than depth of the roster, our problem is the lack of power/OBP/defense. JBJ does all of those things at a premium position. At home, he can really take away the gaps. Seeing what Lorenzo Cain does when KC come to town, it would be incredible to have our own guy forcing teams to hit the long ball to win. Especially with Eaton in RF.

 

I think Kopech is the guy the Sox would insist on including. He'd be the next ace prospect in the system hopefully to replace Sale in a few years. He had some makeup concerns coming out of the draft and has since been suspended for stims and suspended for fighting with a teammate. That adds another layer of risk on a 20 year old who throws 100+. He is filthy though. Despite a clear need to stop tipping his off-speed pitches, Kopech absolutely dominated A+ as a 20 year old. He stays tall and closed on the fastball but has a bad habit of dropping down and slowing down on the offspeed offerings. From my largely untrained eye, his mechanics would check out with the Sox.

 

So to me, one of JBJ/Benintendi is a must. Kopech is a must. One of Swihart/Vazquez makes too much sense. If it's JBJ, we need Moncada too. If it's Bentinendi, the last four pieces are higher quality guys than the last three on Moncada/JBJ starter. If we could somehow get Moncada/JBJ that would be incredible.

 

My deals in order of preference and least likelihood:

 

1.) Moncada, JBJ, Kopech, Swihart/Vazquez and Eduardo Rodriguez/Brian Johnson.

2.) Benintendi, Kopech, Devers, Swihart/Vazquez and Eduardo Rodriguez/Brian Johnson

3.) JBJ, Kopech, Devers, Swihart/Vazquez and Luis Alexander Basabe

I'm keen on the first option, because for the cost of one (great) player, the ChiSox would be acquiring a considerable amount of talent to throw at 3/4th of the positions up the middle (CF, 2B, & C). It's long been said the strength of a team can be judged at how strong they are up the middle, and so you add those three players with Anderson at SS, and all of a sudden it's a completely different complexion, position player-wise, for the Sox for the foreseeable future. And the team would be adding some significant pitching depth, to boot!

 

I love the idea of a trade like this one. So much so that I'd be very interested in doubling down with a similar deal for Q. Strike while the elite lefties with the team friendly contracts irons are hot, I say!

[GreenSox]

I do think a lot of posters on this board are underrating JBJ. I know we're trading the best asset the White Sox have ever had in this hypothetical and people want better than JBJ as a headliner, but JBJ is a .340-.360 OBP guy with 20+ dingers and great defense.

I like your scenarios, but this gives me pause. He's only had one season like that and I'm not convinced it wasn't somewhat flukeish. This the need to pair him with an elite prospect, imo.

[GREEDY]

My biggest problem with trading Sale & Q is that no one team has enough good talent that is far enough away from the bigs for my taste.

 

One of the keys to a rebuild is getting those top few draft picks for a couple seasons. And if the Sox receive major league ready talent in exchange for Sale/Q, I'm afraid the Sox won't tank enough to get top picks. (Not to mention I think one of the only ways Jerry would approve selling is if he was convinced the team would still be competitive).

 

It would take a complicated multi-team deal to garner enough 18-21 year olds to make me willing to part with either pitcher, and if you are in the "trade both or neither" group, you would have to pull off this sort of deal not once but twice. Tough task.

Edited October 12, 2016 by GREEDY

[balfanman]

If, and I realize that it's a big IF, the Cubs do not go all the way this year would they be a possible trade partner for Sale?

 

They certainly have the talent and would be even more desperate to get the job done.

[Chicago White Sox]

If, and I realize that it's a big IF, the Cubs do not go all the way this year would they be a possible trade partner for Sale?

 

They certainly have the talent and would be even more desperate to get the job done.

Right or wrong, the Sox won't deal Sale to the Cubs IMO.

[kitekrazy]

Unless of course the Sox "go for it" again and at this point I'd be very surprised if they didn't. JR is not willing to wait five years during a rebuild and last I looked he still owns the team.

 

Mark

 

Plus how do you replace Q and Sale? Shields is a weak link. Somehow the Sox scouting would have to be far more accurate when it comes to giving up quality cost controlled pitching. Giving that up seems foolish. The Cubs blueprint is wishful thinking.

 

[SoxAce]

JBJ, I can see the value, and adding defensive value seems to be something that is a bit more predictable than offense (particularly for us), but I agree with those that would rather see the return be more prospect-based.

 

Yep. If sox are serious about rebuilding they need younger players. JBJ will be 27 next season in his prime.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Giants needs Roberston. Quick, Hahn, ask for Christian Arroyo!

[SCCWS]

Frankly I think that option is best case scenario.

 

I really don't know if Boston would consider moving Moncada. They say no in the public but who really knows. I know for sure, and I don't want to see it, that the Sox will not be getting Mookie Betts. Please make that stop...

 

Moncada was rushed to the majors this year and he had a very poor showing. Benintendi was also rushed and played very well. In normal times, both would have gotten some time in AAA. Moncada will probably need a full year in AAA next year. I think the question for Boston is how far behind Moncada is Devers and which one is viewed as the next 3B. If it is Devers, they may move Moncada.

[GreenSox]

Plus how do you replace Q and Sale? Shields is a weak link. Somehow the Sox scouting would have to be far more accurate when it comes to giving up quality cost controlled pitching. Giving that up seems foolish. The Cubs blueprint is wishful thinking.

Key to the Cubs blueprint were clever and extremely productive July trades. Rick Hahn passed on those opportunities the last 2 years.

I think the club needs to trade sale but I don't think Hahn has the guts to do it. I think it's more likely Hahn undertakes a major hero hunt this off-season

Edited October 12, 2016 by GreenSox

[Chicago White Sox]

Key to the Cubs blueprint were clever and extremely productive July trades. Rick Hahn passed on those opportunities the last 2 years.

I think the club needs to trade sale but I don't think Hahn has the guts to do it. I think it's more likely Hahn undertakes a major hero hunt this off-season

Rumors are that Hahn has been for a rebuild for quite some time, but was overruled by Reinsdorf and/or KW. Regardless, if it's job security he wants, Hahn is better off going the rebuilding route and buying himself a good four years. If he goes for it again and fails, he'll be hard pressed to use the manager and players as scapegoats after multiple years of underperformance.

 

I'm fairly confident the Sox will do some sort of rebuild, just doubt they will blow the whole thing up.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Rumors are that Hahn has been for a rebuild for quite some time, but was overruled by Reinsdorf and/or KW. Regardless, if it's job security he wants, Hahn is better off going the rebuilding route and buying himself a good four years. If he goes for it again and fails, he'll be hard pressed to use the manager and players as scapegoats after multiple years of underperformance.

 

I'm fairly confident the Sox will do some sort of rebuild, just doubt they will blow the whole thing up.

 

 

He gets 2 or 2 1/2 years....if they're going close to full rebuilding.

 

He's already shown he can't compete on the fly with a mid-market payroll.

[Balta1701]

If, and I realize that it's a big IF, the Cubs do not go all the way this year would they be a possible trade partner for Sale?

 

They certainly have the talent and would be even more desperate to get the job done.

Frankly, I don't believe the Cubs have the talent left in their minor leagues to get him right now. They'd have to give up someone from the major league roster and that would be a mistake.

 

They could start off with Contreras as a reasonable centerpiece, but Contreras + Baez + Soler doesn't get me giving up Sale and they gave up a strong price for Chapman earlier this summer.