Price rising for Sale and Q

[iamshack]

I don't think JBJ would be the centerpiece. I think he is a piece. You have to get a guy like Moncada and a lot of others to make this work.

See, that is where I think Boston will beg to differ.

 

If he truly is a 5-6 WAR player, that sure sounds like the centerpiece to me.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I don't think JBJ would be the centerpiece. I think he is a piece. You have to get a guy like Moncada and a lot of others to make this work.

But I think that's the whole problem. It sounds like the White Sox requested JBJ, Moncada/Ben, plus some and the Red Sox are saying it's only one of those three plus some.

[Black_Jack29]

It's not a 1 for 1 comparison. Acquiring JBJ comes at the expense of Chris Sale and guys like Devers, Kopech, etc. are 3 or 4 years away (at best) from contributing to the big league team in a meaningful way. JBJ is gone by then, so what's the point? Gomez costs nothing. Well not nothing exactly, but probably a contract similar to what the Sox gave Jackson last offseason. If you trade Sale, you have to build it around guys like Moncada and Ben that contribute immediately to the big league roster unless you are going burn it down full scale rebuild, which is simply not realistic under this management.

 

More like two years away

 

[bmags]

I think the fact that white sox fans in this thread are so obssessed with the red sox prospects over others is a sign that we will get less of them than we think.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

See, that is where I think Boston will beg to differ.

 

If he truly is a 5-6 WAR player, that sure sounds like the centerpiece to me.

Yup. My point exactly. He is a centerpiece. I think they view him on equal footing with Moncada and Ben and are only willing to give up one of those three rather than two like many on here assume.

[southsider2k5]

But I think that's the whole problem. It sounds like the White Sox requested JBJ, Moncada/Ben, plus some and the Red Sox are saying it's only one of those three plus some.

 

Then the Sox walk away from the deal. If they aren't willing to pay up, there are better deals out there to be had.

[southsider2k5]

I think the fact that white sox fans in this thread are so obssessed with the red sox prospects over others is a sign that we will get less of them than we think.

 

Like I said before, I think the Yankees are the team that will make the biggest push.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

More like two years away

Weren't they both in A ball this year? I don't see them contributing to the big league club until 2019 (two more seasons in the minors).

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Like I said before, I think the Yankees are the team that will make the biggest push.

 

 

That's the way Joel Sherman made it sound around the trade deadline when they were stockpiling prospects.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Then the Sox walk away from the deal. If they aren't willing to pay up, there are better deals out there to be had.

Agreed, which is why I think he stays put this offseason and they try to build around him through free agency and lesser trades.

[Black_Jack29]

Weren't they both in A ball this year? I don't see them contributing to the big league club until 2019 (two more seasons in the minors).

 

That sounds about right. You said 3-4 years, and I think that's too long. Neither of those guys are going to spend appreciable time in AAA.

 

Given that the Sox aren't nuking the team and doing a full rebuild, I think that they need to target 2019 as their expected date of competitiveness and rebuild/retool their team around that time frame. That would mean going forward with Q, Rodon, Fulmer, Eaton, Anderson, Jones, etc. And they should strongly consider either signing Frazier to a four-year deal or Abreu to an extension.

 

[iamshack]

Then the Sox walk away from the deal. If they aren't willing to pay up, there are better deals out there to be had.

But really, are there?

 

As much as we think we are holding the Red Sox over a barrel, I suspect they will have significant leverage as well. We may be able to drum up interest from others, but in reality, Boston is really the one team that holds the pieces that we might demand. Otherwise, it once again becomes an issue of prospect liquidity with other organizations.

 

Sure, the Dodgers might have the pieces. Perhaps Texas and NY could put something together. The Cubs have the pieces but we aren't going to move Sale to the Northside absent some premium. Boston is really the team that has the pieces to make this happen and still not bankrupt their system.

[Eminor3rd]

I still think the most likely path the Sox take is to try to add in the offseason for one last hurrah, and then aggressively dismantle the whole thing at the trade deadline when it fails. I think this because the 2017-18 offseason is the first one where there looks to be absolutely no argument for contention, barring the unforeseeable arrival of new breakout stars.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

That sounds about right. You said 3-4 years, and I think that's too long. Neither of those guys are going to spend appreciable time in AAA.

 

Given that the Sox aren't nuking the team and doing a full rebuild, I think that they need to target 2019 as their expected date of competitiveness and rebuild/retool their team around that time frame. That would mean going forward with Q, Rodon, Fulmer, Eaton, Anderson, Jones, etc. And they should strongly consider either signing Frazier to a four-year deal or Abreu to an extension.

3-4 years factors in some growing pains at the big league level. I would expect that to occur in 2019/2020 during their first couple years in the big leagues. I generally agree with the outlook/forecast of the semi-rebuild (if they were to go that route), which is part of the reason I feel JBJ has no place in this plan since he's a free agent after the 2020 season.

[bmags]

I still think the most likely path the Sox take is to try to add in the offseason for one last hurrah, and then aggressively dismantle the whole thing at the trade deadline when it fails. I think this because the 2017-18 offseason is the first one where there looks to be absolutely no argument for contention, barring the unforeseeable arrival of new breakout stars.

 

Fast forward to trade deadline 2017

"There will be better deals in offseason, nobody wants to unload major league talent in playoff push"

Fast forward to offseason 2017

"I mean we have 3 of the best pitchers in the AL, and the jays said we could get 40 year old bautista at HALF PRICE for only Jose Guerroro JR and others"

Fast forward to trade deadline 2018

"We can get better deals in offseason, let's just trade lawrie for some spects"

[Black_Jack29]

3-4 years factors in some growing pains at the big league level. I would expect that to occur in 2019/2020 during their first couple years in the big leagues. I generally agree with the outlook/forecast of the semi-rebuild (if they were to go that route), which is part of the reason I feel JBJ has no place in this plan since he's a free agent after the 2020 season.

 

Keep in mind that Q also hits free agency at the same time as JBJ, and Eaton hits free agency a year later. Therefore, competing in 2019 and 2020 is probably the strongest argument for JBJ.

 

[ChiSox59]

I still think the most likely path the Sox take is to try to add in the offseason for one last hurrah, and then aggressively dismantle the whole thing at the trade deadline when it fails. I think this because the 2017-18 offseason is the first one where there looks to be absolutely no argument for contention, barring the unforeseeable arrival of new breakout stars.

 

I could see this as well. This is what I thought they'd do for a long time - but the opportunity for an overpay is there this offseason, and I think the Sox explore it.

[southsider2k5]

But really, are there?

 

As much as we think we are holding the Red Sox over a barrel, I suspect they will have significant leverage as well. We may be able to drum up interest from others, but in reality, Boston is really the one team that holds the pieces that we might demand. Otherwise, it once again becomes an issue of prospect liquidity with other organizations.

 

Sure, the Dodgers might have the pieces. Perhaps Texas and NY could put something together. The Cubs have the pieces but we aren't going to move Sale to the Northside absent some premium. Boston is really the team that has the pieces to make this happen and still not bankrupt their system.

 

If Boston isn't willing to move their top guys, then yes, the other teams could be able to put packages together that beat the Red Sox offer.

[iamshack]

Fast forward to trade deadline 2017

"There will be better deals in offseason, nobody wants to unload major league talent in playoff push"

Fast forward to offseason 2017

"I mean we have 3 of the best pitchers in the AL, and the jays said we could get 40 year old bautista at HALF PRICE for only Jose Guerroro JR and others"

Fast forward to trade deadline 2018

"We can get better deals in offseason, let's just trade lawrie for some spects"

I agree...this is never going to be an easy decision to make. However, the sooner we make the commitment to rebuilding, the more value we will likely get for our current assets.

[iamshack]

If Boston isn't willing to move their top guys, then yes, the other teams could be able to put packages together that beat the Red Sox offer.

But while those packages may beat the Red Sox offer, they likely won't rise to the level required for us to make the deal.

[southsider2k5]

But while those packages may beat the Red Sox offer, they likely won't rise to the level required for us to make the deal.

 

I think the Yankees and Dodgers could depending on how creative they want to get.

[hi8is]

Poop?

[SCCWS]

 

 

I think by default, Sale is our opening day pitcher in 2017. Hopefully Q is moved by then.

[hi8is]

Please, December... come soon. 6 plus weeks of super fun speculation ?

[Balta1701]

Please, December... come soon. 6 plus weeks of super fun speculation

I think if you're waiting until December you're going to have a serious problem. If there's an early free agency run on the handful of available outfielders and catchers, and if I were a GM that needed one of those positions I'd know what my offers to Fowler/Desmond/Castro/Wieters are right now, then this team winds up between a rock and a hard place - unable to find the pieces it needs to get better, but possibly without any team rising to the price for Sale.