SoxAce Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 05:26 PM) You're going to be disappointed if you are expecting a 4-5 year overhaul of the organization. When you hear "rebuild" that's what you expect. If that's the case, just keep the other two 27 year olds and continue to "retool". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 04:25 PM) That's the whole point with me. If you are rebuilding, why are you trading for a guy who will be 27 next season? Go young with the rebuild, don't half ass it like we've been doing with the "retooling". There's no way that the Sox will be doing a 4-5 year rebuilding. More like 2 years. And I don't think that's a pipe dream, given that JBJ is entering his prime, Benintiendi is ML-ready, and Moncada is close to ML-ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 05:25 PM) That's the whole point with me. If you are rebuilding, why are you trading for a guy who will be 27 next season? Go young with the rebuild, don't half ass it like we've been doing with the "retooling". I really don't think they rebuild. I am thinking they do end up dealing Sale, but instead of rebuilding, it's sort of a retooling. Move Sale and get JBJ, Devers, Kopech, and Rodriguez and then grab someone who can play LF and move Melky to DH. If they did something like that, next year could be really interesting: Eaton RF JBJ CF Abreu 1B Cespedes LF Melky DH Frazier 3B Saladino/Lawrie 2B Avila? C Anderson SS Quintana L Gonzalez R Rodon L Rodriguez R Fulmer R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 06:31 PM) I really think Sale and Robertson for Benintenidi, Kopech, Groome, Rodriguez, and Vasquez is pretty fair, but unrealistic given our obsession with Bradley I doubt they want Robertson. They already have a closer in Kimbrall and I doubt they pay Robertson money for a set-up guy. They will probably want a lefty set up guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 06:47 PM) There's no way that the Sox will be doing a 4-5 year rebuilding. More like 2 years. And I don't think that's a pipe dream, given that JBJ is entering his prime, Benintiendi is ML-ready, and Moncada is close to ML-ready. I think Moncada needs another year in AAA. His cup of coffee was weak. Benintend's bat was ML ready but his play in LF was sketchy at times . In fairness to the kid, he also skipped AAA so his problems in LF were understandable. I assume you are not thinking those 3 are in the same deal by the way. I think Moncada can be had for the right price but I really think JBJ and Benintendi are not going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 05:54 PM) I really don't think they rebuild. I am thinking they do end up dealing Sale, but instead of rebuilding, it's sort of a retooling. Move Sale and get JBJ, Devers, Kopech, and Rodriguez and then grab someone who can play LF and move Melky to DH. If they did something like that, next year could be really interesting: Eaton RF JBJ CF Abreu 1B Cespedes LF Melky DH Frazier 3B Saladino/Lawrie 2B Avila? C Anderson SS Quintana L Gonzalez R Rodon L Rodriguez R Fulmer R That rotation... yikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 05:31 PM) I really think Sale and Robertson for Benintenidi, Kopech, Groome, Rodriguez, and Vasquez is pretty fair, but unrealistic given our obsession with Bradley That's not enough for Sale, would need Devers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 05:25 PM) That's the whole point with me. If you are rebuilding, why are you trading for a guy who will be 27 next season? Go young with the rebuild, don't half ass it like we've been doing with the "retooling". Because we all know the Sox aren't burning this to the ground. Even a rebuild will have a much shorter window than your typical rebuild with an eye on competing ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 05:54 PM) I really don't think they rebuild. I am thinking they do end up dealing Sale, but instead of rebuilding, it's sort of a retooling. Move Sale and get JBJ, Devers, Kopech, and Rodriguez and then grab someone who can play LF and move Melky to DH. If they did something like that, next year could be really interesting: Eaton RF JBJ CF Abreu 1B Cespedes LF Melky DH Frazier 3B Saladino/Lawrie 2B Avila? C Anderson SS Quintana L Gonzalez R Rodon L Rodriguez R Fulmer R They aren't giving up the 12th pick in the draft to sign Cespedes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 07:04 PM) Because we all know the Sox aren't burning this to the ground. Even a rebuild will have a much shorter window than your typical rebuild with an eye on competing ASAP. Then they better f***ing nail every single player they bring back in any major trades, because if they're willing to accept less overall talent to try to make things happen faster they create much less of a cushion for a bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 05:54 PM) I really don't think they rebuild. I am thinking they do end up dealing Sale, but instead of rebuilding, it's sort of a retooling. Move Sale and get JBJ, Devers, Kopech, and Rodriguez and then grab someone who can play LF and move Melky to DH. If they did something like that, next year could be really interesting: Eaton RF JBJ CF Abreu 1B Cespedes LF Melky DH Frazier 3B Saladino/Lawrie 2B Avila? C Anderson SS Quintana L Gonzalez R Rodon L Rodriguez R Fulmer R Rotation is pretty brutal, and Rodriguez throws with his left hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 05:21 PM) Rotation is pretty brutal, and Rodriguez throws with his left hand. It's not brutal if Rodon and Rodriguez take the next step in their development. It's not Sale/Q/Rodon, but we all know where that plan got us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 With how thin the market on starting pitching is let alone impact starting pitching the white sox should cash in. Rich Hill is the best option of the market this year. If Boston wants Sale then they'll have to pony up and JBJr shouldn't even be in the conversation he'll be 27 on opening day and is about to be very expensive due to his super 2 status, he'll have 4 ARB years. I would expect a package around Chris to look like this: LF/CF Andrew Benintendi, 2B Yoan Moncada, C/OF Blake Swihart, LHP Jason Groome (who is eligible to be traded after the world series) and RHRP Trey Ball. If Sale is moved there is no reason not to move on everyone except Anderson, Rodon & possibly Eaton, as he could be a part of the next divisional title, due to his age and contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (beautox @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 09:32 PM) With how thin the market on starting pitching is let alone impact starting pitching the white sox should cash in. Rich Hill is the best option of the market this year. If Boston wants Sale then they'll have to pony up and JBJr shouldn't even be in the conversation he'll be 27 on opening day and is about to be very expensive due to his super 2 status, he'll have 4 ARB years. I would expect a package around Chris to look like this: LF/CF Andrew Benintendi, 2B Yoan Moncada, C/OF Blake Swihart, LHP Jason Groome (who is eligible to be traded after the world series) and RHRP Trey Ball. If Sale is moved there is no reason not to move on everyone except Anderson, Rodon & possibly Eaton, as he could be a part of the next divisional title, due to his age and contract. We're definitely on the same page here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 06:29 PM) I think Moncada needs another year in AAA. His cup of coffee was weak. Benintend's bat was ML ready but his play in LF was sketchy at times . In fairness to the kid, he also skipped AAA so his problems in LF were understandable. I assume you are not thinking those 3 are in the same deal by the way. I think Moncada can be had for the right price but I really think JBJ and Benintendi are not going anywhere. A lot of the better prospects never see AAA (especially those as talented as Benintiendi), so that doesn't surprise me. I haven't seen much of him, but I know that playing LF in Fenway can be challenging. No, I realize that there's no way that Benintiendi, Moncada, and JBJ are all dealt for Sale. But I do think that either Benintiendi or Moncada needs to be a part of the deal. And I would understand why Dombrowski wouldn't want to deal JBJ along with Benintiendi, but that would mean that he'd have to pony up more prospects. With JBJ, what it boils down to is whether Dombrowski wants to give up a proven ML player and try to replace him via free agency, or give up more of his farm system. Most teams would probably prefer to hang on to a player like JBJ, who will be semi-expensive yearly, but won't come with a long-term commitment than overpay for somebody like Fowler in free agency. Then again, the Red Sox have a lot more money than most teams. I honestly don't know what Dombrowski would prefer to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (beautox @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 09:32 PM) If Sale is moved there is no reason not to move on everyone except Anderson, Rodon & possibly Eaton, as he could be a part of the next divisional title, due to his age and contract. If you're going to keep Eaton, you may as well keep Q who is under contract through 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 07:08 PM) Then they better f***ing nail every single player they bring back in any major trades, because if they're willing to accept less overall talent to try to make things happen faster they create much less of a cushion for a bust. Exactly, if we're just supposed to assume the White Sox are trying to shorten any rebuild then there's no room for error. Hell, there's already little room for error as it is knowing any potential Q or Sale trade NEEDS to be successful for this franchise to move forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 A deal has to at least include one of Benintendi/JBJ (Betts I'd imagine is untouchable), one of Moncada/Devers and Eduardo Rodriguez. And then likely 2 of Kopech, Johnson and Groome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 07:08 AM) A deal has to at least include one of Benintendi/JBJ (Betts I'd imagine is untouchable), one of Moncada/Devers and Eduardo Rodriguez. And then likely 2 of Kopech, Johnson and Groome. I'd be happy with Benintendi/Moncada/Rodriguez/Kopech/Groome but I'd think the Red Sox wouldn't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 07:14 AM) I'd be happy with Benintendi/Moncada/Rodriguez/Kopech/Groome but I'd think the Red Sox wouldn't do that. Yeah probably not. Maybe subtract an arm and take Swihart to catch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 The problem with wanting both Benintendi AND Moncada is A. Boston wouldn't do that and B. That would severely lessen the likelihood of getting guys like Kopech/Groome/Devers as well, who are much better than our prospects too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 08:01 AM) The problem with wanting both Benintendi AND Moncada is A. Boston wouldn't do that and B. That would severely lessen the likelihood of getting guys like Kopech/Groome/Devers as well, who are much better than our prospects too I think a deal is more likely to be Benintendi/Devers or JBJ/Moncada as top 2 pieces. And then you would fill in the rest of the pieces/prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) I know people hate that JBJ only has 4 years of control, but I'm sure the Sox will try to compete in that time. Or he plays about the same and you flip him for more prospects in a year or two lengthening the haul of whichever starter we would trade in a potential deal. Edited October 18, 2016 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 08:06 AM) I know people hate that JBJ only has 4 years of control, but I'm sure the Sox will try to compete in that time. Or he plays about the same and you flip him for more prospects in a year or two. Then why not just get the better prospects from Boston, for the more valuable player in Sale? Acquiring Bradley and flipping him seems like defeating the purpose of trading Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) I think it's a track record thing. He has about 800 ABs over the last 2 seasons now of about an .834 OPS though, so I don't think he's all that overrated. Major downsides of a JBJ trade are control and age. I can get behind the control thing, it just seems like people think he's a bad player. QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 03:00 PM) He fell off offensively this year. We know what we're getting defensively, but his offense is still a question mark. He didn't, though. He went from a .355 wOBA to a .354. His K rate actually dropped significantly while his walk rate stayed essentially the same. His average and OBP rose. If anything, he provided evidence that his strong half season in 2015 wasn't a fluke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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