whitesoxfan99 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 04:08 PM) More than third party votes, or votes for the wrong party, if all of the people who didn't vote at all in this election all came out and voted for one completely different person, that person would be President today. I've also always wondered if the president was elected by popular vote if that would drive up voting (because people in states that are non-competitive would be more likely to vote), drive voting down (with people rationalizing it as how much does my vote matter if it is one of 100 million plus which would be nonsense when you look at how close the popular vote was this year), or if we would be stuck in about the same range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 How about making voting easier? Default to postage paid mail-in ballots. Election day on a Saturday. Same day registration process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 12:36 PM) I doubt it. I think she is his black "beard". He's not racist. He talks to Omarrossa. There was an NPR report from North Carolina where Omorossa was going around meeting with black leaders saying trump would set up a whole new program to get former felons jobs (the voter was a former felon and was voting for trump). Interesting to see if some of this stuff is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I'll just say that Mr. Trump has yet to earn the benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 03:32 PM) There was an NPR report from North Carolina where Omorossa was going around meeting with black leaders saying trump would set up a whole new program to get former felons jobs (the voter was a former felon and was voting for trump). Interesting to see if some of this stuff is real. Any jobs are going to be the result of trickle down business from reduced taxes and bringing back manufacturing. Both of which are most likely a fairy tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 03:38 PM) Any jobs are going to be the result of trickle down business from reduced taxes and bringing back manufacturing. Both of which are most likely a fairy tale. Weaker dollar as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 It's worthwhile to note that companies are making more money than ever, the market is doing fine. What isn't going well is the middle class especially with wage increases. There is a legitimate gripe with how Obama was handling this, he was super friendly to companies (and somehow republicans still didn't like that) but it has nothing to do with the economy still being down, it's about the spread of wealth. Trump hasn't shown any policies that would be friendly to the middle class, at best we've seen policy talk around trade agreements but those aren't battling that problem directly. I just don't understand how people think trickle down effect economics are needed right now when that's essentially what we have currently. I'd rather see policy around middle class tax cuts, tax breaks for family's sending kids to college, etc, especially centered around those going into science/engineering/business fields. Enable the middle class to get jobs that will exist tomorrow, not jobs that existed 30 years ago. That's how you move them forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I see first hand that construction and business spending is up and we are coming up on a HUGE tech bubble (hopefully doesnt pop) which makes us THE leader in the world. But I guess since some factories closed over a decade ago that business sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 03:52 PM) I see first hand that construction and business spending is up and we are coming up on a HUGE tech bubble (hopefully doesnt pop) which makes us THE leader in the world. But I guess since some factories closed over a decade ago that business sucks. I mean I get that people are upset about wage increases being super sluggish, but I think that's a lazy way to look at it but dumb people fall for it because it's easier than switching careers. I also love how there's this huge movement to bring jobs back to America, yet Trump's hats are made in China. Yea, he really cares about manufacturing jobs here. So many people clamor for this, and republicans gobble it up even though they all know it's not feasible. We've lost our ability to manufacture competitively (at least with high paying jobs on the floor). But of course they won't admit that, they just blame policy for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 We've lost our ability to manufacture with human labor cheaply. We manufacture cheaply just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 04:05 PM) We've lost our ability to manufacture with human labor cheaply. We manufacture cheaply just fine. Yea I was trying to say that, but that's more succinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 03:59 PM) I mean I get that people are upset about wage increases being super sluggish, but I think that's a lazy way to look at it but dumb people fall for it because it's easier than switching careers. I also love how there's this huge movement to bring jobs back to America, yet Trump's hats are made in China. Yea, he really cares about manufacturing jobs here. So many people clamor for this, and republicans gobble it up even though they all know it's not feasible. We've lost our ability to manufacture competitively (at least with high paying jobs on the floor). But of course they won't admit that, they just blame policy for it. Our best business resources are technology and the infrastructure that goes with it. The fact that we are still dwelling on making cars or dryers or whatever is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 03:52 PM) I see first hand that construction and business spending is up and we are coming up on a HUGE tech bubble (hopefully doesnt pop) which makes us THE leader in the world. But I guess since some factories closed over a decade ago that business sucks. The issue is that most of the "recovery"/ "good" is in the urban areas. Im pretty sure I saw some stat about recovery/new jobs etc and that most of them are in the larger cities. There are real issues for those who live in more "rural" areas. The problem (at least imo) is that they are searching for answers that either dont exist, or are unwilling to accept solutions that they believe will hurt them (increasing immigration etc.) Youd need a massive amount of govt projects akin to the new deal to really see any massive uptick of jobs in those areas. No matter what tariffs/trade deals happen, there is just little reason to believe that globalization will stop. It started before the US was even a nation, its just people either dont care to learn history or refuse to realize that at one time, the US was the country who took the jobs from Europe and that eventually someone else would do the same to us. Unless the US starts a "race to the bottom", most of those jobs are gone and never returning. There is just no way you can compete. I did a random search and the hourly wage in Bangladesh is $.24 per hour. Even if you were to reduce the us wage to $4 per hour, you are still talking approximately 16 hours of work for every 1 hour of work in the US The real concern is that if the US starts screwing with free trade that it will actually cost the price of goods to go up, with no change in employment, meaning that people will earn the same amount but have to pay more for it which is actually a negative for most consumers. This is why historically the Republican party was pro-free trade. This is from on the issues: Promote free trade with America setting the standards Republicans are confident that the worldwide trade agenda is full of promise. Tariffs should be cut further. The U.S. can back private sector efforts to streamline common standards and deregulate services. America can set the standards and be at the center of a web of trade, finance, and openness. If some nations choose to opt out, they will see how other countries accepting economic freedom will advance on their own. This is a vision of private initiative encouraged, not stifled, by governments. Source: Republican Platform adopted at GOP National Convention , Aug 12, 2000 Its really the main reason I thought that at the end of the day Republicans would not accept Trump. He is just destroying some of their core economic beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I've been struggling with that soxbadger. I focused on cheap housing to make it cheaper to move there, but I don't see how it is resovled without government assistance at least for this generation. The economy is providing more and more jobs to services. Services are more productive in dense areas. What happens to resolve that tension? Go back and time and make less jobs for all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 LOL, I never thought I'd be in such lockstep with SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 04:20 PM) I've been struggling with that soxbadger. I focused on cheap housing to make it cheaper to move there, but I don't see how it is resovled without government assistance at least for this generation. The economy is providing more and more jobs to services. Services are more productive in dense areas. What happens to resolve that tension? Go back and time and make less jobs for all? The simplest solution would be to increase immigration, which is pretty much the boogeyman in US politics. The reason why the US was able to withstand the pressure of globalization historically was that it was offset by the continual increase in labor. Whereas the first industrial nations, UK/France, had limited increase in population, the US had exponential. Due to the exponential increase in population, "jobs" were being created by the minute. When someone new moves to the country, they need things and so they buy things. It stabilizes every market (more people = higher demand) and thus while the US lost jobs, it was gaining jobs at a similar rate. While the raw numbers have increased, the percentage of growth from immigrants went down from 1% in 1900 to approximately .3% today. At the beginning of the 20th century you were looking at a 2% increase in population per year. Its now down to .7%, during the recession it fell to .4% in 2010. The problem is that people think that if they stop immigration it means that there will be more jobs here, when it likely is the reverse. Its the same idea with free trade, etc. This used to be the area where you had a lot of cross over, but who knows anymore. Edited November 9, 2016 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 04:37 PM) Why is everyone freaking out about Trump and LGBT? I don't remember him saying everything distasteful. If you wanted to be worried about your Mexican or Muslim friends I'd at least understand the apprehension. I think everyone is going to be okay but we'll probably have some embarrassing moments along the way. http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov...g-gay-equality/ I think a lot of it has to do with his running mate believing you can electric shock the gay out of people..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 04:31 PM) LOL, I never thought I'd be in such lockstep with SB. Welcome to the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 05:38 PM) I think a lot of it has to do with his running mate believing you can electric shock the gay out of people..... That plus the early lists for Scalia's seat that he put out during the campaign all being social conservatives, and that he has the potential to fill 3 other current moderate or liberal seats. Combine that with the Republicans (not necessarily Trump) spending a large portion of the campaign talking about "activist" judges and the Obergfell decision plus the fact that Mike Pence is really, really bad on LGBT rights (that needed to be said again - Pence is as religious right as you get in mainstream politics). Trump's individual views on LGBT issues probably aren't terrible, but everyone who surrounds him is really, really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 A transgendered person I follow who has connections to a support group currently counts the number of suicides since last night at 8. I'm not going to read any more of her posts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 04:02 PM) A transgendered person I follow who has connections to a support group currently counts the number of suicides since last night at 8. I'm not going to read any more of her posts on this. "What's with all you libtards overreacting?! Sheesh." -- just about every white, male conservative EDIT: I am sickened by your news. Edited November 10, 2016 by BigSqwert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Can someone explain to me why the LGBT community is freaking out so much? What has Trump said he was going to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 04:07 PM) Can someone explain to me why the LGBT community is freaking out so much? What has Drumpf said he was going to do? It was already explained earlier but the TL;DR is that he is surrounding himself with nothing but very anti-LGBT rights folks, notably Pence. Edited November 10, 2016 by BigSqwert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 08:07 PM) Can someone explain to me why the LGBT community is freaking out so much? What has Trump said he was going to do? They're already bullied anyway, Mike Pence is the VP, and the Republicans have the Congress. The North Carolina bathroom bill and the Indiana hate the gays bill are going nationwide and everyone knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 You Did This, America: Sarah Palin Being Considered for Cabinet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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