NLCS: Cubs vs Dodgers

[iamshack]

I said this awhile ago. The White Sox do not have the same financial resources as the Cubs so modeling a rebuild after them is not even realistic anyway. If anything, they should be following the model the Indians or Royals have used in recent years. They can start by strengthening the bullpen and defense.

I disagree...while the Cubs have used their financial resources to their advantage, and most importantly, their ability to draw fans even in the midst of a rebuild, it's more about the way in which they invested their resources than the magnitude of them, IMO.

 

They made a commitment to building through international free agency and the draft. Meanwhile, they made some shrewd offseason signings and then were not afraid to move those players at the deadline of seasons they were noncompetitive to add assets to their core.

 

This is nothing the White Sox can't do. All it takes is patience.

 

And I don't really want to hear about the fans won't support it. The fans don't much support the product now anyways.

[greg775]

So as a Sox fan how do you feel on a scale of 1-10?

I feel a 3. Happy for the people who never had a title and this proves Chicago is a great sports town again. So many titles in recent history. However as a Sox fan I'm mad. Our team blows right now and thought hiring Robin Ventura was a good idea. Morons.

[greg775]

WOOOHOO Nice job Cubs, I was out there on Waveland cheering you guys on in the 9th, had a blast. Only issue was with a few people beer-spraying us, but man what a joy.

 

Now end the indians and the White sox will be burried, unfortunately.

Were there any fights? What's going on out there? Why did you leave?

[fathom]

Only part of the rebuild they got lucky on is Arrieta and Hendricks.

[Middle Buffalo]

Only part of the rebuild they got lucky on is Arrieta and Hendricks.

Russell - still not sure what the A's were thinking

[iWiN4PreP]

Were there any fights? What's going on out there? Why did you leave?

 

No fights that I could see. Just a LOT of people. More came towards the 9th and end of the game. Cars honking horns constantly in cheer.

 

Beer spraying kinda sucked, but only a few did that.

 

Left as I'm not much of a party animal and don't like big groups of people, also wanted to get home for work in the early am for the lady.

 

Overall, a great atmosphere if one is into that kind of thing. Every bar around was packed throughout the game.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I disagree...while the Cubs have used their financial resources to their advantage, and most importantly, their ability to draw fans even in the midst of a rebuild, it's more about the way in which they invested their resources than the magnitude of them, IMO.

 

They made a commitment to building through international free agency and the draft. Meanwhile, they made some shrewd offseason signings and then were not afraid to move those players at the deadline of seasons they were noncompetitive to add assets to their core.

 

This is nothing the White Sox can't do. All it takes is patience.

 

And I don't really want to hear about the fans won't support it. The fans don't much support the product now anyways.

They also paid big money to free agents. They are still a good team without those guys but would they have survived the division series without Lester? Not to mention other hefty contracts Zobrist, Heyward, Lackey which has led to mixed results but can you imagine what kind of devastation a Heyward type signing would have on the White Sox. Many are complaining that Shields remaining 2 years/$20MM (Sox portion) is a huge financial burden.

[BBaum21]

Only part of the rebuild they got lucky on is Arrieta and Hendricks.

 

Try getting Rizzo for Cashner while Hoyer was Padres' GM, in addition to Russell.

[greg775]

No fights that I could see. Just a LOT of people. More came towards the 9th and end of the game. Cars honking horns constantly in cheer.

 

Beer spraying kinda sucked, but only a few did that.

 

Left as I'm not much of a party animal and don't like big groups of people, also wanted to get home for work in the early am for the lady.

 

Overall, a great atmosphere if one is into that kind of thing. Every bar around was packed throughout the game.

Cool.

I'm surprised real people would waste their beer and spray it. I wonder how many people will get pulled over tonight and have to take breathalizers just cause they smell of beer. You get sprayed you can't avoid it.

Not a better scenario for a fan. Saturday night way before midnight. Party time.

[soxforlife05]

So as a Sox fan how do you feel on a scale of 1-10?

I feel a 3. Happy for the people who never had a title and this proves Chicago is a great sports town again. So many titles in recent history. However as a Sox fan I'm mad. Our team blows right now and thought hiring Robin Ventura was a good idea. Morons.

 

I'm upset we are stuck with incompetent ownership and management with no hope of the necessary changes being made for the foreseeable future. Multiple World Series wins for the Cubs and this team will never recover. The 2005 team was complete luck given how badly they squandered a huge opportunity to grow the fan base.

Edited October 23, 2016 by soxforlife05

[iamshack]

They also paid big money to free agents. They are still a good team without those guys but would they have survived the division series without Lester? Not to mention other hefty contracts Zobrist, Heyward, Lackey which has led to mixed results but can you imagine what kind of devastation a Heyward type signing would have on the White Sox. Many are complaining that Shields remaining 2 years/$20MM (Sox portion) is a huge financial burden.

Yeah they have, although I'd argue that Lester is really the only one that made a big difference.

 

Zobrist gives them a ton of flexibility, but he isn't a guy the Sox couldn't sign.

 

The big signing of Heyward probably wouldn't happen, but he hasn't really made a huge difference in their success.

 

I guess my point is that their big dollar FA moves, outside of Lester, are really not what got them here. It was the investing in development and sticking with the plan.

Edited October 23, 2016 by iamshack

[fathom]

I'm upset we are stuck with incompetent ownership and management with no hope of the necessary changes being made for the foreseeable future. Multiple World Series wins for the Cubs and this team will never recover. The 2005 team was complete luck given how badly they squandered a huge opportunity to grow the fan base.

 

I'm not sure how the Sox recover their fanbase unless they start winning a lot of games again for a few seasons

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Yeah they have, although I'd argue that Lester is really the only one that made a big difference.

 

Zobrist gives them a ton of flexibility, but he isn't a guy the Sox couldn't sign.

 

The big signing of Heyward probably wouldn't happen, but he hasn't really made a huge difference in their success.

 

I guess my point is that their big dollar FA moves, outside of Lester, are really not what got them here. It was the investing in development and sticking with the plan.

I follow you but being able to sign an ace for that kind of money is something the Sox couldn't afford to do. I'm not sure a rotation of Hendricks, Arrieta, Lackey, Hammel gets them past the Giants. Probably not.

[fathom]

I follow you but being able to sign an ace for that kind of money is something the Sox couldn't afford to do. I'm not sure a rotation of Hendricks, Arrieta, Lackey, Hammel gets them past the Giants. Probably not.

 

Even Lackey is making more than the Sox would ever give a pitcher

[greg775]

I'm upset we are stuck with incompetent ownership and management with no hope of the necessary changes being made for the foreseeable future. Multiple World Series wins for the Cubs and this team will never recover. The 2005 team was complete luck given how badly they squandered a huge opportunity to grow the fan base.

Not total luck. You guys despise Ozzie but he did a helluva job managing that team and not yanking starters when they were hot and overmanaging.

Also we had very very good starting pitching and played clean baseball and had some big hits. All those games against the Astros were clean and close and we had a deserving team. Never forget how we dominated the postseason. It wasn't luck.

However ... I do agree with much of what you said.

[iamshack]

I follow you but being able to sign an ace for that kind of money is something the Sox couldn't afford to do. I'm not sure a rotation of Hendricks, Arrieta, Lackey, Hammel gets them past the Giants. Probably not.

I disagree. If the Sox invested in their development, and were able to keep their mlb payrolls low as a result of that, as well as punting on competing for a few seasons, they could absolutely afford a Lester-type contract. Don't think about it in terms of our current payroll. Imagine a payroll in the $75 million range for a few seasons. There is nothing prohibiting you from paying a few veterans at that point $15-20 million per year.

Edited October 23, 2016 by iamshack

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I disagree. If the Sox invested in their development, and were able to keep their mlb payrolls low as a result of that, as well as punting on competing for a few seasons, they could absolutely afford a Lester-type contract. Don't think about it in terms of our current payroll. Imagine a payroll in the $75 million range for a few seasons. There is nothing prohibiting you from paying a few veterans at that point $15-20 million per year.

In theory yes but JR would never commit to that type of contract, especially for a pitcher.

[iamshack]

In theory yes but JR would never commit to that type of contract, especially for a pitcher.

I think he might if we knew we had a core of position players locked up for years but that you needed to add some legitimacy to the roster.

 

That is essentially what the Lester signing was about more than anything - showing the other FA's that the Cubs were serious about winning and should be a destination for those FAs.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I think he might if we knew we had a core of position players locked up for years but that you needed to add some legitimacy to the roster.

 

That is essentially what the Lester signing was about more than anything - showing the other FA's that the Cubs were serious about winning and should be a destination for those FAs.

I'd like to think this is the case but there is no history to say he would. When Jose Abreu is your biggest FA signing in franchise history, I have a hard time imagining him taking the leap to a contract 2.5x as large regardless of the state of the rest of the roster.

 

I'm one of the few optimists on this board that thinks the White Sox aren't that far away from competing. The bullpen and offense need some help but their core is actually solid - Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson, Eaton, Abreu, Burdi. If they had the resources of the Cubs, now would be the time to make a big splash and their version of a Lester signing by signing Cespedes this offseason but that won't happen.

Edited October 23, 2016 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[iamshack]

This is honestly a perfect time to start our rebuild. We're not going to compete with the Cubs when they are at their peak anyways. So use the relative anonymity to your advantage...move your key assets that you don't project will be around by the time you arise from the ashes, and then take your medicine and start pouring money into development. Not only into players but into coaches and staff as well. It'll take 3-4 years of sucking, but who cares? You'll come out on the other side much stronger an organization than you are now.

[iamshack]

I'd like to think this is the case but there is no history to say he would. When Jose Abreu is your biggest FA signing in franchise history, I have a hard time imagining him taking the leap to a contract 2.5x as large regardless of the state of the rest of the roster.

 

I'm one of the few optimists on this board that thinks the White Sox aren't that far away from competing. The bullpen and offense need some help but their core is actually solid - Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson, Abreu, Burdi. If they had the resources of the Cubs, now would be the time to make a big splash and their version of a Lester signing by signing Cespedes this offseason but that won't happen.

Well to his credit, he paid $60 million to a player who had never had a major league plate appearance.

 

And you are right, we aren't the Cubs. But even with all their financial resources, they were smart enough to know they needed to do it through development and not FA signings.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Well to his credit, he paid $60 million to a player who had never had a major league plate appearance.

 

And you are right, we aren't the Cubs. But even with all their financial resources, they were smart enough to know they needed to do it through development and not FA signings.

But much of the Sox current core has been through development. Sale, Q, Rodon, Anderson, Eaton are all guys they have developed. The finanacial limitations imposed by JR absolutely make it more difficult for them to field a competitive team. Of course it's not impossible but it is much more difficult. Although they would never do it, signing guys like Cespedes, Fowler, and Jansen this offseason would instantly make them a contender in the AL central while maintaining payroll similar to the Cubs this season.

Edited October 23, 2016 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[Boopa1219]

I don't give a a s***

[caulfield12]

let's not forget they were going to pay Tanaka and Samardzija.

 

now we know what it is like to be Oakland A's fans, albeit with a better stadium but a lesser GM

 

The only positive about this is tv ratings and perhaps an expansion of younger baseball fans if the cubs build a mini dynasty but how that would help the White Sox is unclear

[caulfield12]

But much of the Sox current core has been through development. Sale, Q, Rodon, Anderson, Eaton are all guys they have developed. The finanacial limitations imposed by JR absolutely make it more difficult for them to field a competitive team. Of course it's not impossible but it is much more difficult. Although they would never do it, signing guys like Cespedes, Fowler, and Jansen this offseason would instantly make them a contender in the AL central while maintaining payroll similar to the Cubs this season.

 

but not sustainable

 

Fowler and Cespedes will likely attract multi year offers, and the logic of having Jansen and Robertson and Jones and Burdi only works with a $150-175 million payroll, not $125

 

they're better off operating like the Marlins and waiting for a deep-pocketed investor group