iWiN4PreP Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 That said about the discussion here. If they don't win it all this year, they're a failure. I guess they could point to baby steps in saying they at least made the WS for the first time since 45, but it'd be a failure of a year. Cubs are that good. Completely agree here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 11:38 AM) Scary thing about the Cubs is they are so good defensively and have such good pitching. I knew they'd pound SF. A Conor Gillaspie can get lucky and get hot for a week. The Cubs have good/great players and great pitching and defense. They are a lock to win it all. That said about the discussion here. If they don't win it all this year, they're a failure. I guess they could point to baby steps in saying they at least made the WS for the first time since 45, but it'd be a failure of a year. Cubs are that good. Those great Detroit teams proved there are no guarantees, however. s*** can happen but I think talent will prevail here. That acquisition of Chapman was huge. We should have beaten them to the punch and traded them Robertson for four players like the Yankees did. They haven't even got there yet. I do agree they should be favorites to reach the WS, but this isn't the NBA or even the NFL. Nothing is a foregone conclusion in baseball, and the Dodgers have a little bit of talent as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 12:00 PM) I actually agree with Greg here. They made the NLCS last year, were the best team basically the entire season in 2016, and have far and away the best talent in the MLB. Oh, and they've been incredibly healthy all season. Baseball is incredibly lucky, yes. But if the Cubs don't win in 2016, the season as a whole wasn't a success. I find that to be obnoxiously arrogant and dismissive of the rest of the League. They've been good for 2 years now. Let's not pretend as though they are old hands at this. I understand the quality of their team, but making the pennant or the WS isn't so pedestrian for them at this point that it should render the entire season a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 07:05 PM) I find that to be obnoxiously arrogant and dismissive of the rest of the League. They've been good for 2 years now. Let's not pretend as though they are old hands at this. I understand the quality of their team, but making the pennant or the WS isn't so pedestrian for them at this point that it should render the entire season a failure. I disagree. It's a huge failure if they don't win it all (unless) they merely say baby steps and first WS since 1945 is baby steps. They are by far the best team. Nobody in their way has any reason to win it all this year in terms of talent being better than the Cubs. Tribe starting rotation blows compared to Cubs. Tribe does have one of those rare special managers however. But if Cubs don't win it all, only hope for die hard Chicago fans is they will turn into the Tigers. Win it every year (before KCR) and not complete the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 02:55 PM) They made the NLCS last season. In the off-season, they got better. As the season went on, they continued to get better. As the entered the post-season, they were by far the healthiest team in the field. So if they have the same result as last season, we are supposed to consider this season a success? Do you believe Theo and the front office would consider it a success? I would think that Theo realizes the baseball playoffs are a crap shoot and would call it a successful season with a disappointing finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 12:55 PM) They made the NLCS last season. In the off-season, they got better. As the season went on, they continued to get better. As the entered the post-season, they were by far the healthiest team in the field. So if they have the same result as last season, we are supposed to consider this season a success? Do you believe Theo and the front office would consider it a success? Well, I guess we may as well not watch baseball for the next 10 years, because the Cubs will have to be failures for the next decade to not win the World Series every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 01:14 PM) And do you keep that same thought process every year? What if Theo and the Cubs never win a World Series. Would he say his run here was a success if they never won, even though the playoffs are a crap shoot? The goal is obviously to put yourself in a position to win as much as possible. Especially as their young kids get better, and get playoff experience, they will have as good or better odds to win as anyone. But you simply aren't going to win the postseason tournament every year. And when you don't, it doesn't make the season a total failure. That is a completely unrealistic and unreasonable perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 01:16 PM) You're right, that's exactly what I said. Well done. Do you deny that they will likely be in this position for several years to come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 02:00 PM) I actually agree with Greg here. They made the NLCS last year, were the best team basically the entire season in 2016, and have far and away the best talent in the MLB. Oh, and they've been incredibly healthy all season. Baseball is incredibly lucky, yes. But if the Cubs don't win in 2016, the season as a whole wasn't a success. FWIW, they had more time spent on the disabled list than the White Sox - a big chunk of that is Schwarber of course, but the only team in the playoffs who used the DL for more man-games than the Cubs is of course the Dodgers. Counting guys like Schwarber and Fowler hitting the DL, you can't even say that they only lost backup players or anything like that. They just looked healthy because they built a roster to be the best team in the league and you can't do that unless you have enough depth to overcome injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 01:26 PM) Where did I say they needed to win the World Series every year? You find that for me, please. I specifically said 2016. And I wrote 2016 for a reason. I also haven't used the word "total failure" like you have. I have followed the Blackhawks for most of my life. I watched in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 a progression being made. In 2009, the made the Western Conference Finals, and lost. Coming into 2010, the expectation was to advance to the Stanley Cup. If they didn't it would be a disappointment, and the season wouldn't have been a successful one. The goal was to win the Stanley Cup. Is there luck involved? Sure there is. But when you build a team to be a perennial winner, winning becomes the expectation. The Cubs and Blackhawks have incredibly similar paths. If you compare the two, the 2016 Cubs should be the 2010 Blackhawks. We also know what happened after 2010 for the Hawks, and I expect similar results for the Cubs. What do you expect to be different for the Cubs in 2016 versus 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Okay guys, game 2 of NLCS. We got Kershaw going. I think it's pretty academic at this point. Either Kershaw brings back the Dodgers to even this series up and we have a series, or the Cubs overcome Kershaw and have this series nearly in the bag. This is the best chance to swing the momentum that LA has. A win here and they are, perhaps, at a slight advantage heading back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 06:34 PM) Okay guys, game 2 of NLCS. We got Kershaw going. I think it's pretty academic at this point. Either Kershaw brings back the Dodgers to even this series up and we have a series, or the Cubs overcome Kershaw and have this series nearly in the bag. #Analysis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 03:14 PM) And do you keep that same thought process every year? What if Theo and the Cubs never win a World Series. Would he say his run here was a success if they never won, even though the playoffs are a crap shoot? Well that's kind of moving the goal posts don't you think? But honestly I would say the answer is yes and no (I realize that seems like a cop out). If they make 7 straight postseasons, I would definitely call that successful but yeah, he would still think he didn't complete the job. The 90s Buffalo Bills weren't failures IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Marlins fan is back there as well. Haha, what a guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 And do you keep that same thought process every year? What if Theo and the Cubs never win a World Series. Would he say his run here was a success if they never won, even though the playoffs are a crap shoot? The only reason why this particular instance would be a failure is because of the long winning-less drought. Cubs haven't won since 1908, so for them, there is a much higher priority of winning the whole thing than any other team. In any logical scenario, having a team go to the playoffs in baseball 7 straight seasons is almost the pinnacle of success. It keeps players, fans, the city motivated and behind the product. It's an organization of winning that so few have. That is truly special and could turn people into life long fans of the product/team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Gonzalez getting them the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Kershaw straight dealin after two innings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Hendricks making awful pitches and not getting hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 07:53 PM) Hendricks making awful pitches and not getting hurt Yeah that was actually a really good pitch to hit to Gonzalez with two strikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 05:55 PM) I would assume Theo would answer: "We had a lot of success here but ultimately we failed to reach our goal.." Which I would agree with. Again, I didn't call them failures if they don't win the World Series. Someone else did. That's a strong word. BUT, my point is about expectations as a whole and how things have developed on the North Side, similar to how they developed on the West Side. Using that example again, if the Hawks from 2010-2016 never won any Cups, but continued to make the Finals, would we say every season was a success and they are just unlucky? Well, you did agree with the poster who used that word. The bottom line is, you look at the body of work and make whatever judgments you want based on that. It is a different analysis to say "we made it to five Postseasons and never won a WS title," than to say "We didn't win the World Series this year, thus, the season was a failure." That is something that people might say immediately in the aftermath of defeat, but generally, it is well-understood and appreciated just how difficult it is to even get in a position to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Dodgers with a bad game plan against Hendricks tonight. Too many guys trying to pull the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Dodgers definitely leaving too many on. Oi vey, that ERA in the 7th inning of postseason baseball for Kershaw is insane (28.36!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Whew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 07:55 PM) I would assume Theo would answer: "We had a lot of success here but ultimately we failed to reach our goal.." Which I would agree with. Again, I didn't call them failures if they don't win the World Series. Someone else did. That's a strong word. BUT, my point is about expectations as a whole and how things have developed on the North Side, similar to how they developed on the West Side. Using that example again, if the Hawks from 2010-2016 never won any Cups, but continued to make the Finals, would we say every season was a success and they are just unlucky? Then we would call them the Vancouver Canucks, ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Give Kershaw the 8th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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