Chris Getz to take over player development

[Dick Allen]

What will his be his typical duties? How will they differ from Buddy? And does Buddy trump Chris? I would imagine so.

 

I would guess not. I would think Buddy Bell is the White Sox equivalent of John McLeod of the Cubs. He gets a lot of mention as a future GM, but the Cubs director of player development is Jaron Madison, probably a name most people in Wrigley Field last night have never heard of.

[Dick Allen]

The lack of "evidence" isn't evidence at all, when all of the actual evidence is there in front of you.

So in other words, a Nick Capra thread doesn't exist.

[southsider2k5]

So in other words, a Nick Capra thread doesn't exist.

 

It doesn't have to exist. That is the point here. The strawman you are constructing isn't valid.

[Dick Allen]

It doesn't have to exist. That is the point here. The strawman you are constructing isn't valid.

There is no strawman. All I wrote was Getz gets more play on this board before he even started than Capra got in 5 years. IT HAPPENS TO BE THE TRUTH, but you and BMAgs decided it was time to argue and said player development has been discussed a lot. Which I agreed, but this thread is about Chris Getz, and a lot of posts are about how he is most likely not qualified. Yet no one ever really mentioned his predecessor.

[southsider2k5]

There is no strawman. All I wrote was Getz gets more play on this board before he even started than Capra got in 5 years. IT HAPPENS TO BE THE TRUTH, but you and BMAgs decided it was time to argue and said player development has been discussed a lot. Which I agreed, but this thread is about Chris Getz, and a lot of posts are about how he is most likely not qualified. Yet no one ever really mentioned his predecessor.

 

If the argument is that you had to use the phrase "Nick Capra" to have an opinion on Chris Getz, then no it is not the truth, and yes, you have constructed an irrelevant strawman for no good reason.

[Dick Allen]

If the argument is that you had to use the phrase "Nick Capra" to have an opinion on Chris Getz, then no it is not the truth, and yes, you have constructed an irrelevant strawman for no good reason.

You love to pick fights.

 

The reason is the White Sox director of player development has received more attention in 1 day than the position has received in 5 years, and it is because a guy played for the White Sox 7 years ago.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

Another thing to consider is whether this is a promotion, demotion, or lateral move for Capra. When googling I did come across some article from his hometown when he became the director and he did say his ultimate goal was to become a major league coach.

[bmags]

You love to pick fights.

 

The reason is the White Sox director of player development has received more attention in 1 day than the position has received in 5 years, and it is because a guy played for the White Sox 7 years ago.

 

No, dick, it's because after a horrendous season that proved most of the board's worst fears about the white sox lack of direction, we put our hopes to see some change in any place it can happen. And when a pretty poorly performing area gets filled with a green candidate, it just re enforces that the White Sox do not see anything wrong with their set-up.

 

That's why Chris Getz is getting this attention. Because he is the same blue print that we have been rolling out that has failed.

 

 

[he gone.]

Two notes from my end:

 

a) what does his job entail now? Does he have power to say who we draft? Or is it just this fake title where in reality he does not much? Does he have contact with the players? This is a serious question.

 

b) Well this is more of a statement. The reason we as a Sox fan base are upset with this hire isn't because we understand the effect Getz will have on the team or about anything to do with the hire itself...

 

It has to do with this is such a status quo move by the FO and its sickening.

 

We lose, lose, lose. And we build this culture of losing. so as small as it is, we go out for the AFL and make Rowand a manager. We go out and hire Getz. We go out after a losing season and hire our bench coach, who then retains everybody including Steverson.

 

Those guys individually may be fine coaches and good in their roles, but it's the same ol same ol. There's no accountability by the FO, so how will there by any at the players levels? Just like at work probably in a lot fo your offices. If you have a boss or bosses that give you an inch you push it. No matter how gifted a worker you are, in the end if you aren't challenged from above you slip.

 

I was really hoping this offseason it would be blown up. At least from a FO standpoint. I have nothing against Renteria and I think too much is made of managers, however I hate that he was already on this losing team.

 

With how this offseason has started I can't wait to sign Mark Trumbo and Dexter Fowler and then try to tell the fan base we're going for it again. Then watch us get 2 lead off singles only to strike out twice and pop up in the infield to end the inning with zero runs....

 

 

This team is broken. And it's not Getz fault or Renteria, but at the end of the day it's just another status quo move for the Sox FO and another reason we will suck again next year.

[southsider2k5]

You love to pick fights.

 

The reason is the White Sox director of player development has received more attention in 1 day than the position has received in 5 years, and it is because a guy played for the White Sox 7 years ago.

 

That is a funny thing to be on your mind. Why is that?

 

You know the reason why this is being talked about. And it isn't because no one said the words "Nick Capra" sufficiently enough.

[Dick Allen]

No, dick, it's because after a horrendous season that proved most of the board's worst fears about the white sox lack of direction, we put our hopes to see some change in any place it can happen. And when a pretty poorly performing area gets filled with a green candidate, it just re enforces that the White Sox do not see anything wrong with their set-up.

 

That's why Chris Getz is getting this attention. Because he is the same blue print that we have been rolling out that has failed.

Chris Getz was hired from the Royals. IT ISN'T THE BLUE PRINT.

[Dick Allen]

That is a funny thing to be on your mind. Why is that?

 

You know the reason why this is being talked about. And it isn't because no one said the words "Nick Capra" sufficiently enough.

People can complain about Getz all they want. I even stated earlier his experience is light, but...do we even know his specific job duties? It's just odd that this position is now so important The guy that held it previously was never really questioned, wasn't ripped, wasn't really complained about moving into a job on the major league staff. If the development has been bad, and this role so crucial, it's amazing he has received zero play. All I was mentioning is now Getz get scrutinized more in one day, before he even starts, than this guy did in 5 years of apparent failure.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

http://mbpelicans.mlblogs.com/2016/01/21/c...-jaron-madison/

 

http://vineline.mlblogs.com/tag/jaron-madison/

 

Jaron Madison was DIRECTOR of Minor League Scouting with the Cubs before changing to Director of Player Development. The previous one, Brandon Hyde, had eight years of combined minor league managerial, minor league infield coordinator and 2 1/2 years as Marlins' bench coach, including one game as interim/fill-in big league manager.

 

Experience...in other areas. For both. And it's pretty much impossible for Sox fans to question the job the Cubs do scouting.

Edited October 17, 2016 by caulfield12

[chitownsportsfan]

People can complain about Getz all they want. I even stated earlier his experience is light, but...do we even know his specific job duties? It's just odd that this position is now so important The guy that held it previously was never really questioned, wasn't ripped, wasn't really complained about moving into a job on the major league staff. If the development has been bad, and this role so crucial, it's amazing he has received zero play. All I was mentioning is now Getz get scrutinized more in one day, before he even starts, than this guy did in 5 years of apparent failure.

 

 

Yes, we do. He's the DIRECTOR OF PLAYER DEVELOPMENT. I'm guessing, but it's a pretty informed guess, that he'll be in charge of the day to day operations of the entire MiLB instructional staff and will also have a budget to fill such positions as he sees fit, with minimal oversight from above. He'll also probably have a large voice in player acquisitions, including but not limited to International signings, domestic FA, trades and the amateur draft.

 

Furthermore he'll have a voice in how spring training is organized and how off season activities and workouts are setup and run.

 

In sum, it's a critically important position. That they gave it to someone with 1.5 years experience at an entry level position boggles my mind.

 

I really do not care how well he interviewed or how well he gets a long with the current staff or even that he was a former Sox player. That critical thing here is that he in no way qualified for this position.

 

In isolation, if the team was coming off a run of success, you'd perhaps grant them the benefit of the doubt in the hiring process. However, that is not the case, not even close to the case. This is an org that has continually failed at the MLB level over the past 10 years and that has also largely failed at player development over that time.

 

Who in their right mind would look at this on the face and think "trust'em"?

 

Noooooobodddddy.

[Thad Bosley]

People can complain about Getz all they want. I even stated earlier his experience is light, but...do we even know his specific job duties? It's just odd that this position is now so important The guy that held it previously was never really questioned, wasn't ripped, wasn't really complained about moving into a job on the major league staff. If the development has been bad, and this role so crucial, it's amazing he has received zero play. All I was mentioning is now Getz get scrutinized more in one day, before he even starts, than this guy did in 5 years of apparent failure.

Why don't you just start a post mortem thread titled "How did Nick Capra do as Director of Player Development of the White Sox"? That way you can gather all of the assessment of his time in that role that you claim has been missing at Soxtalk all of these years, and then this thread can go back to fans reacting to the hiring of Getz for the role. Just a thought!

[caulfield12]

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/161592224/in...elopment-staff/

 

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2...omote_ross.html

 

Carter Hawkins, eight years of experience, four years as assistant to Atkins, who was previously in charge of player development. Yet another exec with a better organization (the Indians) with EIGHT years of experience prior to assuming the responsibilities.

 

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2014/5/21/5...ilb-adjustments

 

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0SO8wvENQV...JSc5sl1PUQdhGo-

 

Scott Sharp with the Royals had EIGHT years of experience in scouting with three different organizations.

 

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/team/fron...ice.jsp?c_id=kc

Well, at least Getz wasn't at the very bottom of their front office pecking order. There's one below.

 

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/kc/team/e...dahia_chino.jsp

And now we know why Getz wasn't in line for that position any time soon in KC. Someone with tons more experience in multiple organizations and bilingual to boot.

Edited October 17, 2016 by caulfield12

[iamshack]

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/161592224/in...elopment-staff/

 

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2...omote_ross.html

 

Carter Hawkins, eight years of experience, four years as assistant to Atkins, who was previously in charge of player development. Yet another with a better organization with EIGHT years of experience prior to assuming the responsibilities.

 

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2014/5/21/5...ilb-adjustments

 

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0SO8wvENQV...JSc5sl1PUQdhGo-

 

Scott Sharp with the Royals had EIGHT years of experience in scouting with three different organizations.

 

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/team/fron...ice.jsp?c_id=kc

Well, at least Getz wasn't at the very bottom of their front office pecking order. There's one below.

 

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/kc/team/e...dahia_chino.jsp

And now we know why Getz wasn't in line for that position any time soon in KC. Someone with tons more experience in multiple organizations and bilingual to boot.

I suspect there are folks in the Cardinals, Pirates, Cubs, Red Sox, etc. organizations that had similar amounts of experience.

 

 

[chitownsportsfan]

I suspect there are folks in the Cardinals, Pirates, Cubs, Red Sox, etc. organizations that had similar amounts of experience.

 

There's no way they should have even considered anybody with less than 5 years prior experience in a player development and/or an executive position in an MLB org. IE, someone who has experience with team building, consensus building, setting a budget, managing a staff -- not to mention the day to day task of trying to improve your players.

 

That's what really boggles my mind -- not that he was hired, but that he was hired into arguably the 3rd highest executive position on the club behind KW and Hahn. The manager is on the players side, the Director of Player Development is firmly in the FO and will have quite a bit of executive decisions to make. They hired someone that has zero experience making those decisions.

 

0. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

Edited October 17, 2016 by chitownsportsfan

[caulfield12]

I suspect there are folks in the Cardinals, Pirates, Cubs, Red Sox, etc. organizations that had similar amounts of experience.

 

Yes, and ironically, the one before Jaron Madison for the Cubs...eight years of experience in three vastly different organizational roles for the Marlins.

 

Of course he played for the White Sox from 1997-2001. Brandon Hyde. Shifted to 1B coach for the Cubs when Maddon/Martinez came on board.

 

 

We can't even identify the RIGHT former players to coach as well as other teams do. Cooper came over from the Yankees.

Edited October 17, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

There's no way they should have even considered anybody with less than 5 years prior experience in a player development and/or an executive position in an MLB org. IE, someone who has experience with team building, consensus building, setting a budget, managing a staff -- not to mention the day to day task of trying to improve your players.

 

That's what really boggles my mind -- not that he was hired, but that he was hired into arguably the 3rd highest executive position on the club behind KW and Hahn. The manager is on the players side, the Director of Player Development is firmly in the FO and will have quite a bit of executive decisions to make. They hired someone that has zero experience making those decisions.

 

0. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

 

 

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/team/fron...ice.jsp?c_id=kc

This is the more typical structure. Note Getz near the very bottom.

 

 

With the White Sox, you have Haber and Buddy Bell with a lot more power than this position.

Cooper, unofficially.

Hostetler and Paddy now.

At best, he would be 8th, and it would be impossible for me to believe he would be more respected than Laumann, who's a baseball lifer, so maybe 9th.

Probably their Director of Analytics as well, Dan Fabian, the ND grad. 10th?

[chitownsportsfan]

Nice chart Caulfield and shows just how far Getz was down the org in KC. He was basically at entry level.

 

That said, it appears from the same publicly available info on the site, that the Sox have separated their MiLB operations from the rest of baseball operations. That makes Getz the head of MiLB operations and entails a massive amount of executive duties as such. Basically he'll be responsible for the hiring and firing and performance of the entire MiLb operations. By the chart, that puts him ahead of Hostetler.

 

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/team/front...ce.jsp?c_id=cws

[Dick Allen]

http://mbpelicans.mlblogs.com/2016/01/21/c...-jaron-madison/

 

http://vineline.mlblogs.com/tag/jaron-madison/

 

Jaron Madison was DIRECTOR of Minor League Scouting with the Cubs before changing to Director of Player Development. The previous one, Brandon Hyde, had eight years of combined minor league managerial, minor league infield coordinator and 2 1/2 years as Marlins' bench coach, including one game as interim/fill-in big league manager.

 

Experience...in other areas. For both. And it's pretty much impossible for Sox fans to question the job the Cubs do scouting.

And until I mentioned him, you have never heard of him. How many of their draft picks are on their roster?

 

How come you never mentioned Capra?

Edited October 17, 2016 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

And until I mentioned him, you have never heard of him.

I think your point is well-taken, but that doesn't excuse the point that they should strive to hire more-qualified candidates.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

I think your point is well-taken, but that doesn't excuse the point that they should strive to hire more-qualified candidates.

The point I am making is perhaps this guy is pretty qualified. Maybe they did interview several others. He is a hire from another organization so it isn't like they remained in house. I really think if Getz came up with the Dodgers and never played for the White Sox, those who find this move so wrong in so many ways would be OK with it.

 

He hasn't been part of the White Sox way. Again, we don't even know wher Buddy Bell and others jobs end and his begins. They probably have a pecking order, but the organization appears to use or at least imply they use a lot of collaboration. I don't know if he is any good or not, but the Twitter world baseball people seem to think he is a good idea. We will see. Sideways or up is really the only 2 was the arrow can point from here.

 

This just isn't a loyalty hire. Maybe they don't hire him if they didn't know him previously, but it isn't like they have been dying to get Chris Getz in the organization in some capacity like they have others over the years. This is different.

[chitownsportsfan]

The point I am making is perhaps this guy is pretty qualified. Maybe they did interview several others. He is a hire from another organization so it isn't like they remained in house. I really think if Getz came up with the Dodgers and never played for the White Sox, those who find this move so wrong in so many ways would be OK with it.

 

He hasn't been part of the White Sox way. Again, we don't even know wher Buddy Bell and others jobs end and his begins. They probably have a pecking order, but the organization appears to use or at least imply they use a lot of collaboration. I don't know if he is any good or not, but the Twitter world baseball people seem to think he is a good idea. We will see. Sideways or up is really the only 2 was the arrow can point from here.

 

This just isn't a loyalty hire. Maybe they don't hire him if they didn't know him previously, but it isn't like they have been dying to get Chris Getz in the organization in some capacity like they have others over the years. This is different.

 

There is no replacement for executive experience, of which Getz has zero. This isn't a job like MLB hitting coach where you could argue experience isn't really necessary it's more about gravitas and ability to work with huge egos and get the best out of them.

 

As Director, he will be responsible for the entire organization of the minor league instructional setup or by extension the people he hires will. Making those decisions will be the most important things he does. There is nothing in his resume that suggests he'll be a good executive and as anyone that has run a business can tell you it really doesn't matter how prepared or smart you think you are experience is by far the best teacher. Experience with your own decision making really.

 

It's just a s***ty hire from a s***ty management team.