1000 more people shot in Chicago vs same time last year

[TaylorStSox]

I find that difficult to attribute it to. Chicago was following a national wave. I think the destructoin of public housing was certainly a contributing factor, and the removal of gang leadership causes changes, but there's no problem unique to chicago that was not found in NYC/DC/LA...except there is one thing, Chicago has not seen population growth.

 

As someone with family deeply rooted in Chicago gangs, you should take my word for it.

 

[bmags]

As someone with family deeply rooted in Chicago gangs, you should take my word for it.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong, I think that is a factor, but Chicago was on the same macro trend as the rest of the country/world until 3/4 years ago, when it stopped, and RICO cases taking out gang leadership happened in other cities like NYC which had gang problems too. So, why here? It's not just Robert Taylor homes going down. That also happened in cities nationally.

[TaylorStSox]

I find that difficult to attribute it to. Chicago was following a national wave. I think the destructoin of public housing was certainly a contributing factor, and the removal of gang leadership causes changes, but there's no problem unique to chicago that was not found in NYC/DC/LA...except there is one thing, Chicago has not seen population growth.

Also DC and NYC have very different gangs. Those cities mostly run in small crews. The GD's, for example, are almost 60,000 strong and up until Larry Hoover was moved to Supermax, we're highly organized and disciplined. The structure of Chicago gangs is very unique to Chicago. Now, the GD's and Latin Kings are nationa, but their base is still here.

[TaylorStSox]

My keyboard is disorganized.

 

Chicago gangs are a cultural phenomenon rooted in the days of Civil Rights. Until we accept and understand that, we won't find solutions.

Sociologists would be far more qualified than government agencies.

[bigruss]

Also DC and NYC have very different gangs. Those cities mostly run in small crews. The GD's, for example, are almost 60,000 strong and up until Larry Hoover was moved to Supermax, we're highly organized and disciplined. The structure of Chicago gangs is very unique to Chicago. Now, the GD's and Latin Kings are nationa, but their base is still here.

 

[southsider2k5]

This isn't necessarily directed at you but I think it's impossible to have this conversation without distinguishing between legal and illegal guns. The vast majority of the Chicago's gun violence comes from illegal guns. No laws are going to stop that. Criminials are going to be criminals.

 

 

Yup.

 

Daley systematically built all the highways to trap blacks in certain areas. That was a s*** show so they built a bunch of project high rises in response. That was a s*** show so they got rid of most of the projects and now all the rival gangbangers are living amongst each other. You have GDs everywhere and then black disciples, P stones and Latin Kings mixed in and around them. Most cities have neighborhoods like - "This is a crip neighborhood, don't go there unless you wear blue." In Chicago it's just a free for all and these gangbangers can't even put their guard down unless they're in a big gang in their most populated area.

 

But even that would be a pretty delayed effect. I mean most of that work was done a decade to two decades ago. The kids killing each other now weren't even alive then.

[southsider2k5]

Well surely the issues don't happen over night. This whole process had led to the incredible amount of single parent households and the public policy has left the deep south of the city in shambles as far as the gangs and their respective positioning.

 

If the issue was moving people around, and being displaced, I would think that would happen right away.

[Balta1701]

I've said it before but I find it startling that we really don't know why crime rose dramatically in the 60s-80s and then fell just as dramatically in 90s-00s. And now it rises again and we don't know what to do.

 

That's scary.

Just in case - have you followed the case Kevin Drum has made trying to link it to exposure to leaded gasoline?

[Balta1701]

This isn't necessarily directed at you but I think it's impossible to have this conversation without distinguishing between legal and illegal guns. The vast majority of the Chicago's gun violence comes from illegal guns. No laws are going to stop that. Criminials are going to be criminals.

FWIW, there have been some CPD stats released on this that suggested ~60% of the guns they seized were guns exchanged in Wisconsin and Indiana through means that thanks to the loose laws in those states did not require a background check, and another 20% of the seized guns could be traced directly to literally 3 gun shops in those 2 states that the Illinois laws can't touch. There's a bunch of other interesting details about the gun types used and manufacturing history of smuggled guns in this piece as well.

[bmags]

Just in case - have you followed the case Kevin Drum has made trying to link it to exposure to leaded gasoline?

Yes. It certainly makes the most sense, but I hesitate to state that as THE cause without more research.

 

However, I 100% support that study being used to fix infrastructure causing existing lead contamination because at the very least you are preventing lead poisoning with the possibility of reducing violence drastically.

 

Chicago has had a lot of lead contamination problems recently come up...it could be a reason.

[bmags]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chic...1018-story.html

[lostfan]

The Feds really opened Pandora's Box when they instituted RICO on Chicago gang leadership. What little order there was has completely dissolved. Gangs actually policed themselves somewhat. Violence is bad for business. Now it's absolutely lawless.

Accurate. They were TOO effective at dismantling the gangs. The kids now who weren't around in the 90s weren't brought up in the old gang culture that actually had rules. They don't respect anyone or anything.

 

I got friends involved in New Era Chicago, trying to patrol neighborhoods and do something about this. They were on CBS News last night.

[greg775]

So 100 people shot over the long 4th of July weekend in Chicago; 15 are dead.

Rather than go on a rant about this (I think you all know I am capable of such a rant right now with five or more paragraphs freaking out about this), I would like to ask YOUR reaction. I am sad, first of all, and appalled, second of all and will spare you my angry rant.

But cmon. This is ridiculous stuff. Cops say much of it was gang related. I don't like it; the country and world, really, think of Chicago as a horrible warzone.

If you want my rant I'll come up with one, but please, what can be done about this??? Is Chicago truly done as a great city because of this bulls***? Are the gangs escalating to the point they will be running all parts of the city before long?

 

Prayers for the deceased and their families. Shaking my head at the horror of 4th of July weekend in the great city of Chicago.

[Steve9347]

???

 

You do realize that the Chicago handgun law was actually overturned in 2010 by the Supreme Court (McDonald v. Chicago) and more recently laws with respect to concealed carry have been struck down (Moore v Madigan).

 

So was your first statement sarcasm? Because prior to 2010 Chicago's gun laws were far more restrictive (complete ban on handguns). It was only recently that the Supreme Court and Appeals court overturned multiple Chicago laws. In fact, Illinois was the last state to allow concealed carry.

 

So shouldnt gun crimes be going down? Now Illinois has CC, people in Chicago can carry hand guns,

 

Color me confused.

Dude should change his name to criCKet for how silent he got after you ended him.

[RockRaines]

So 100 people shot over the long 4th of July weekend in Chicago; 15 are dead.

Rather than go on a rant about this (I think you all know I am capable of such a rant right now with five or more paragraphs freaking out about this), I would like to ask YOUR reaction. I am sad, first of all, and appalled, second of all and will spare you my angry rant.

But cmon. This is ridiculous stuff. Cops say much of it was gang related. I don't like it; the country and world, really, think of Chicago as a horrible warzone.

If you want my rant I'll come up with one, but please, what can be done about this??? Is Chicago truly done as a great city because of this bulls***? Are the gangs escalating to the point they will be running all parts of the city before long?

 

Prayers for the deceased and their families. Shaking my head at the horror of 4th of July weekend in the great city of Chicago.

Nope.

 

Are you as worried about the 15 other major cities that are more violent or nah>?

Edited July 5, 2017 by RockRaines

[Steve9347]

This seems like a personal snipe to me. You seem like you're more concerned with jumping across thread to express your feelings towards a specific poster rather than opinions on the topics at hand.

 

I should note, while I have no care to rehash conversations from October, I posted multiple times after the post you quoted. So silent isn't really isn't anyway to characterize what happened. Details don't matter though.

Nah, I jumped in here for the first time, saw those two posts and was excited to see your response. That's all. I think you're a pretty brilliant poster who's on the other side here, and I was hoping to see more information from you given your initial post.

 

In the other thread on here, I was simply warning that you were going down a road that would have very little backing, including no backing from me. Nothing personal.

 

Did you have a response for this thread? Or is the goal to deflect and play victim?

[Soxbadger]

I get people making fun of me for my age, people calling me anime characters, people making fun of my nickname, people telling me to "do some homework", people responding "lol" to posts, etc. and the new rules haven't really protected me from any of that scorn but that's fine.

 

In almost 15 years I believe I have received 1 warning. That warning was for a comment I made to you, after I believe you insulted me in a similar way.

 

I personally grew up in the "sticks and stones" era, so I dont really care what someone calls me. But my comment was damn hilarious (to me) and Im pretty sure that not a single person even got the reference, which is the worst part.

 

Chibi-Usa's nickname in Sailor Moon is "Rabbit." Its not even an insult as Chibi-Usa is a super powerful character, just that is what I think when I see your name. I held back using it for a long time, until well you told me "Smoke more weed turtle", which I honestly had idea where it came from (just searched it now seems like its from Entourage).

 

So basically I used an awesome reference and you used a terrible one. I think we both know who the real victim is.

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Soxbadger

[caulfield12]

I hate the expansion of government. I hate partisanship. I hate that we as a country don't think our government can do wrong and take the corporate media's opinion as fact. If that makes me a loon so be it, but I fear history will be kind to me when our fiat currency crashes. I sure hope I am wrong.

 

 

Have the Republicans since Trump came into office made any overtures to the Dems to work together on healthcare? Even once? Why not improve ObamaCare instead of trying to destroy it when clearly only 1/6 Americans think it's a good idea.

 

There can only be centrist compromising when elected officials aren't blasted out of the water by primary challenges (see Citizens United/Koch Brothers) for actually wanting to work together constructively with the other side. Look what his own party threatened to do to Heller.

 

The Dems clearly don't have a unified message at this point either...just being anti Trump is not enough, you have to be for something, present a better alternative and be aspirational. Hence, those special election losses. If it was so abundantly clear all Dems wanted to expand government (particularly single payer/Medicare for All), but it's clearly not, it's a constantly divisive issue inside the party, with the Obama/Clinton/Perez wing barely holding off the challenge.

 

But, once again, what has Trump done since becoming president to actually united the country instead of divide it? That strategy might work politically (pandering to the base, and our basest instincts as human...which is primarily based on fear of others different from us), but it's tearing both political parties and the entire country apart at the seams.

 

Right now, not being hyper partisan is suicidal for members of both parties, and there's no solution in sight other than term limits, perhaps, and if they made a prohibition that a past member of Congress could do no lobbing work for at least ten years after leaving. But then we'd just have a bunch of billionaires running on both sides.

 

 

 

And most of the mods and posters with families here tend to be pretty conservaive economically, they just don't post as much. Let's call them Colin Powell Republicans, or Compassionate Conservatives (well, mostly).

Edited July 5, 2017 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

At any rate, this is the best post you've written in the Filibuster, except for the martyr part.

 

You've made discussion at the very least lively, but it has cost you from a credibility standpoint because your intellectual objectivity with politics isn't nearly at the same level as your baseball acumen.

[greg775]

Nope.

 

Are you as worried about the 15 other major cities that are more violent or nah>?

Chicago better get a better PR department if it's actually one of the safer cities. Because Chicago is the city that is getting the mention as THE most violent city. Trump just sent in 100 experts or something like that to help cure the problem.

[RockRaines]

Chicago better get a better PR department if it's actually one of the safer cities. Because Chicago is the city that is getting the mention as THE most violent city. Trump just sent in 100 experts or something like that to help cure the problem.

It's political for him. He hates Obama.

 

And it's not one of the safer. But it's not the worst either. But I do think there needs to be a change. It's too easy to get guns , the police are overrun with gangs at times and poverty in certain areas breeds violence at a young age.

[RockRaines]

Rabbit. I respect that you have a different viewpoint. You are in line with half of my family. Don't let the difference in opinion make it look like it's personal. It's not in any way from my viewpoint. I've fought with guys on here and bought them a beer. Krush and I had dust ups and I helped get him an apartment. This is one of the most civil boards on the planet.

[greg775]

Rabbit's posts don't bother me. I can't think of any that have angered me. The White Sox anger me. The posters don't.

[LittleHurt05]

So 100 people shot over the long 4th of July weekend in Chicago; 15 are dead.

Rather than go on a rant about this (I think you all know I am capable of such a rant right now with five or more paragraphs freaking out about this), I would like to ask YOUR reaction. I am sad, first of all, and appalled, second of all and will spare you my angry rant.

But cmon. This is ridiculous stuff. Cops say much of it was gang related. I don't like it; the country and world, really, think of Chicago as a horrible warzone.

If you want my rant I'll come up with one, but please, what can be done about this??? Is Chicago truly done as a great city because of this bulls***? Are the gangs escalating to the point they will be running all parts of the city before long?

 

Prayers for the deceased and their families. Shaking my head at the horror of 4th of July weekend in the great city of Chicago.

 

Judging by your posts, I know you are older, I'll guess you were a teenager in the 70's. Do you know how many people were murdered yearly on average between 1970-1979? 827 people. In 2016, there were 762 murders. Were you this freaked out about the great city of Chicago being a warzone when you were a teenager?