The Decline of White Sox Fan Culture

[LittleHurt05]

Apparently when they started the segment, they mentioned they weren't including the Sox because Cubs fans wouldn't be rooting for them. Whatever.

 

Because all Cubs fans unequivocally root for the Blackhawks, Bulls, and Bears.

[Rowand44]

And Cleveland doesn't have a hockey team so just a great graphic all the way around. CBS screwed up a few things yesterday too. Saying it was the first World Series in Chicago in 71 years and what not. It is what it is but we're definitely one of the most irrelevant franchises in the 4 major sports at the moment.

[Dick Allen]

I think what happened was they already had the segment written and the graphics made when someone realized they f***ed up, so they just used the they weren't rooting for the White Sox line.

 

As for the CBS thing, that is just idiotic.

 

 

These are supposed news organizations. Whether they consider the White Wox irrelevant or not, missing they won the WS 11 years ago is a huge pox on them.

[lasttriptotulsa]

No matter how the Sox do, it will always be a Cubs town. It's just that simple. Even when the Cubs were losing 100 plus games, they still put more butts into seats than the Sox could ever dream of.

 

This is just nonsense. Up until the '90s when the Cubs started taking over it was a pretty even split.

 

From 1901 to 1989 the Cubs won the attendance battle 46 times, the Sox won it 43 times. Total Cubs draw: 82,475,823 for an average of 926,694 per season. Total Sox draw: 75,212,098 for an average of 845,079 per season. A difference of roughly a whopping 1000 people per game.

 

The Sox dominated them until the '20s. The '20s were pretty split. The Cubs took over through the '30s and '40s. Then the Sox dominated them through the '50s and '60s. Cubs got em in the '70s and the '80s were pretty much split.

 

The Cubs have lost 100+ games three times in their history. The Sox outdrew them in two of those seasons. The notion that the city has been and always will be a Cubs town is just blatantly false. If the Sox start winning consistently the fans will come out.

Edited October 25, 2016 by lasttriptotulsa

[bmags]

This is just nonsense. Up until the '90s when the Cubs started taking over it was a pretty even split.

 

From 1901 to 1989 the Cubs won the attendance battle 46 times, the Sox won it 43 times. Total Cubs draw: 82,475,823 for an average of 926,694 per season. Total Sox draw: 75,212,098 for an average of 845,079 per season. A difference of roughly a whopping 1000 people per game.

 

The Sox dominated them until the '20s. The '20s were pretty split. The Cubs took over through the '30s and '40s. Then the Sox dominated them through the '50s and '60s. Cubs got em in the '70s and the '80s were pretty much split.

 

The Cubs have lost 100+ games three times in their history. The Sox outdrew them in two of those seasons. The notion that the city has been and always will be a Cubs town is just blatantly false. If the Sox start winning consistently the fans will come out.

 

Whether it's true or not, for people not old enough to remember, it certainly seems like the sox were ALWAYS also-rans. Ferris Bueller didn't go to Comiskey Park. Frank Sinatra didn't mention the sox, he had to be told not to forget about them.

 

 

[COACH612]

As I get older, I've gotten more responsibilities and jobs that keep me busy. I don't have the free time that I used to have when I was younger. That said, I don't have the patience or want to put in the effort, money, and time into a perpetually losing franchise.

 

I have more important things to use my time and resources on, than a team that's going to waste 3 hours of my night every night because they are a poorly managed organization that is - frankly - a losing team.

 

The 2005 season was great, but they truly lucked into it. There was no future and no plan for continued success. They've been this way since I was a child when I watched them lose in the '80s.

 

I'm not going to stop being a fan... I just expect more out of them than I used to. Until they show me that they're serious about having a plan, what's the point?

That is exactly what I have been saying for awhile. It takes me at least 2 hours each way to get to a Sox game. That's 4 hours just in travel. I love baseball and I am a Sox fan but why spend money when I can watch .500 baseball on tv?

[bmags]

I wonder if this is not in large part due to the decrease in baseball as a whole. I think this is in large part due to the growth of the NFL and the economic collapse.

 

Most people aren't like you and I. They think they don't really have the time to invest into baseball that we do. Even the Cubs success for much of the season hasn't been the cultural magnet previous seasons seemed to be. And anyway, the vast majority of people just want to hop on a bandwagon and have fun. This city seems to have been taken over by transplants and finance/marketing people in the last 10 years. They've spent their 20s in dumb bars in Wrigley, of course they're on the bandwagon.

 

Thanks, this was more on point to the kind of decline I was talking about, not just "why are there no sox fans" but the why do sox fans feel different.

 

Part of that probably is that while the north and northwest neighborhoods have been swelling the southside has been drained.

 

But yeah, I guess baseball just tends to be different. And for my friends that follow it and I'd talk to about it, it's all die hards now talking about best players and the like. Not really the casual group that would come up with a chant or like a player just because they look cool (though I like Tim Anderson even more because he looks like an 80s ball player)

[Southwest Sider]

The culture is definitely on a downswing. All the reasons stated in this thread are good ones: Losing franchise, no real hope for the future, second fiddle to a now dominant franchise on the North Side. It's true, being a White Sox fan sucks right now. It's sucked since 2007 which is almost a decade now. Sure, we will have our players who are worth remembering like all the mediocre White Sox teams of past, but other than that this franchise is very forgettable. I love watching baseball games but there comes a point where watching bad baseball just isn't fun.

 

If the Sox were good and competitive the culture would be fine. All the hiding Sox fans would be coming out in droves. They would be tailgating before, and after games (as security allows). They would be loud and into the games. But we just don't have that now and with the seemingly hopeless direction from ownership our best option is to just wait in the weeds for some real change.

 

The 2005 White Sox probably won some part of a new generation of fans, which is good for them. Otherwise I'd be terribly concerned about how many fans this team will actually have in the future. To be sure, the new Cubs are going to win most of the new generation of fans from here on out. It's classy of the White Sox to congratulate the Cubs on Twitter, but also lame. JR, are you really okay with the Cubs fanbase getting bigger and bigger while yours stagnates? And possibly even shrinks as older Sox fans pass on and bandwagoners switch to the Cubs? That's current and future revenue that you are missing out on!

 

I think this is why some Sox fans speculate that a new owner could move the franchise. It won't happen because I don't think MLB would allow it, but a new owner would be buying a team with a declining customer base and be forced to take on an absolute juggernaut of a competitor to win customers. JR, aside from having limited financial commitments, has NOT set up a new owner for success at all. They basically conceded to the Cubs and now with the Cubs seemingly on the verge of going on a run like the Blackhawks, things look bleak. But it's not over yet. Anything is possible, including reviving this fanbase while the Cubs are doing their thing. There IS money to be made here, you just have to invest. Invest in bright baseball minds and a farm system and Latin America. It is possible to have two sellout franchises in Chicago. The new owner just has to see it. He has to accept that Cubs fans will outnumber Sox fans, and embrace his smaller piece of the Chicago baseball fan pie. He can make that piece larger because there will always be those people who make the unpopular choice. That's the thing about having choices. As long as a young new baseball fan have options, then you have a chance of building your fanbase. It could be as simple as it was for me, Frank Thomas was an outstanding player and turned me into a Sox fan. That's all a young kid might need.

 

Not all hope is lost, but us Sox fans are stuck playing the waiting game while the Cubs rock this town. Our culture is definitely on the decline. But I still feel "cool" being a Sox fan, being the minority. I've seen a surprising amount of people wearing White Sox stuff, so when I do I usually say something like "hey there's another Sox fan!" or something to recognize their clothing. What our culture is, is that we're all in this together. It's the suckiest pile of suck that's ever sucked, but heck, we're all still alive and life itself is a pretty cool thing so it's not all that bad. We're just waiting for our day again... hopefully it actually comes.

 

 

[Black_Jack29]

Whether it's true or not, for people not old enough to remember, it certainly seems like the sox were ALWAYS also-rans. Ferris Bueller didn't go to Comiskey Park. Frank Sinatra didn't mention the sox, he had to be told not to forget about them.

 

That scene of Ferris Bueuller was actually scheduled to be filmed at Comiskey, as John Hughes is a Sox fan. But they ran into time constraints or something, and it got moved to Wrigley.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferris_Buelle...f#Wrigley_Field

 

[Lip Man 1]

This is just nonsense. Up until the '90s when the Cubs started taking over it was a pretty even split.

 

From 1901 to 1989 the Cubs won the attendance battle 46 times, the Sox won it 43 times. Total Cubs draw: 82,475,823 for an average of 926,694 per season. Total Sox draw: 75,212,098 for an average of 845,079 per season. A difference of roughly a whopping 1000 people per game.

 

The Sox dominated them until the '20s. The '20s were pretty split. The Cubs took over through the '30s and '40s. Then the Sox dominated them through the '50s and '60s. Cubs got em in the '70s and the '80s were pretty much split.

 

The Cubs have lost 100+ games three times in their history. The Sox outdrew them in two of those seasons. The notion that the city has been and always will be a Cubs town is just blatantly false. If the Sox start winning consistently the fans will come out.

 

VERY well stated.

 

Mark

 

[Lip Man 1]

Whether it's true or not, for people not old enough to remember, it certainly seems like the sox were ALWAYS also-rans. Ferris Bueller didn't go to Comiskey Park. Frank Sinatra didn't mention the sox, he had to be told not to forget about them.

 

A large part of that is because the Sox decided not to take on the Cubs directly by their own words, made some major marketing and PR decisions that went south, used bad judgment in others (leaving WGN, SportsVision etc,) and as others have stated couldn't consistently win since the 17 year stretch from 1951-1967.

 

The Cubs to their credit realized their team generally was awful but thanks to the brilliant marketing from John McDonough (who grew up a Sox fan by the way) that didn't matter. Throw in the power of the Tribune Company which owned them for like 30 years AND Superstation WGN (whom the Sox were off of for a period of time) and the results are there for all to see.

 

Mark

Edited October 25, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[Lip Man 1]

That scene of Ferris Bueuller was actually scheduled to be filmed at Comiskey, as John Hughes is a Sox fan. But they ran into time constraints or something, and it got moved to Wrigley.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferris_Buelle...f#Wrigley_Field

 

I had heard that as well. The Sox had games to play or something while the Cubs were out of town.

 

Mark

[Bob Sacamano]

As I get older, I've gotten more responsibilities and jobs that keep me busy. I don't have the free time that I used to have when I was younger. That said, I don't have the patience or want to put in the effort, money, and time into a perpetually losing franchise.

 

I have more important things to use my time and resources on, than a team that's going to waste 3 hours of my night every night because they are a poorly managed organization that is - frankly - a losing team.

 

The 2005 season was great, but they truly lucked into it. There was no future and no plan for continued success. They've been this way since I was a child when I watched them lose in the '80s.

 

I'm not going to stop being a fan... I just expect more out of them than I used to. Until they show me that they're serious about having a plan, what's the point?

 

Well said.

[Thad Bosley]

This is just nonsense. Up until the '90s when the Cubs started taking over it was a pretty even split.

 

From 1901 to 1989 the Cubs won the attendance battle 46 times, the Sox won it 43 times. Total Cubs draw: 82,475,823 for an average of 926,694 per season. Total Sox draw: 75,212,098 for an average of 845,079 per season. A difference of roughly a whopping 1000 people per game.

 

The Sox dominated them until the '20s. The '20s were pretty split. The Cubs took over through the '30s and '40s. Then the Sox dominated them through the '50s and '60s. Cubs got em in the '70s and the '80s were pretty much split.

 

The Cubs have lost 100+ games three times in their history. The Sox outdrew them in two of those seasons. The notion that the city has been and always will be a Cubs town is just blatantly false. If the Sox start winning consistently the fans will come out.

Seems like such an easy solution, but sadly, a very elusive one for this charter American League team franchise.

 

Since the team came into being in 1901, it has only made it to the postseason a stunningly low number of nine times. Just nine times! It's almost unbelievable to think any team could be around that long and only make it to the playoffs so few times. That's why any discussion about the culture of the White Sox fan base begins and ends here - the lack of anything even remotely resembling "winning consistently". The team has just not done it at any time in its 116 year history.

 

This is why there is a golden opportunity for the next owner of the Sox, whomever he or she turns out to be, to take the team and its beleaguered fan base to places its never been. Change the White Sox culture from one of losing to one of winning will be a first for this franchise. Comiskey, Veeck, Allyn, and of course Mr. Reinsdorf, none of them made it happen when it was their turn to do so. Now let's hope that the next owner is truly the knight in shining armor who comes in and rescues this team from its century-old malaise and once and for all, establishes it as a sustainable force to be reckoned with in the American League.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[dmbjeff]

It is just painful right now and could be even more painful in another week if the Cubs win it all. It is bad enough being the 2nd team in the city, 2nd class citizens so to speak. To grow up a Sox fan is so hard to explain. Very few of us are born with the silver spoon. On the northside, it is the exact opposite. They often come from wealthy families, well to do families. There is almost a certain level of jealousy over the Cubs. Most Sox fans I know come from entirely different backgrounds. We wear our Sox fan badge very differently than a Cub fan. We do it to prove we are tough, don't give a damn about being cool and popular like the Cubs, yet, we get bent out of shape when we aren't cool and popular(look at the CBS and ESPN crap). If you are from out of town and are coming to Chicago, what neighborhood do you want to spend time in during your summer vacation to the big city? It's no real surprise as to why they are more popular. I get it.

 

This Cub run isn't going to be like the Sox in 2005, it will go on a long time. They are built so well, young controllable talent, $$$ available for FA's. Heck their worst position player just got signed to a massive contract in Heyward and it doesn't even faze them. It would cripple most teams. I just really hope the Sox do the right thing and blow it up and truly rebuild. No one is granted tomorrow on this earth, so I don't want to hear that JR is old and won't do it. I could die tomorrow and I still want them to do the best thing for the franchise and that's to rebuild and be ready for 2019.

[Hatchetman]

This is why there is a golden opportunity for the next owner of the Sox, whomever he or she turns out to be, to take the team and its beleaguered fan base to places its never been.

 

That's exactly what I'm worried about!

 

[Thad Bosley]

That's exactly what I'm worried about!

Haha! I said places we've "never been". We've been to all of the bad places (see Allyn ownership years, mid-to-late 80s, past four years, etc). I'm talking the opposite. Time for our team and fan base to enjoy some sustainable winning for once. I mean, is there some law out there that sez the White Sox can never have a dynasty of some sort! Geez!!

 

Yeah, definitely hoping for much bigger and better things from the next owner. In the meantime, if Reinsdorf wants to peel off a nice run in the sunset of his time as owner, I certainly wouldn't mind. Just not counting on that happening, unfortunately.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[Green Line]

Something has to change in the next decade. I don't know how, and I don't know if it can happen under Reinsdorf, but all of a sudden in the past year I've began to doubt the long term future of the White Sox in Chicago. That's horrifying and I want to think I'm just being over dramatic, but it's a different era than it was back when the Sox were always awful. Ownership is not going to stay in that stadium, it's "old" and way less nice than every new field being built. They're going to demand the city/state help fund a new stadium, and with the current state of the Sox and politics in IL, no way in hell is that going to happen. Something has to change, soon. It's made me so freaking pissed this month to think about how Cubs fans never have to even think about this crap.

[caulfield12]

Something has to change in the next decade. I don't know how, and I don't know if it can happen under Reinsdorf, but all of a sudden in the past year I've began to doubt the long term future of the White Sox in Chicago. That's horrifying and I want to think I'm just being over dramatic, but it's a different era than it was back when the Sox were always awful. Ownership is not going to stay in that stadium, it's "old" and way less nice than every new field being built. They're going to demand the city/state help fund a new stadium, and with the current state of the Sox and politics in IL, no way in hell is that going to happen. Something has to change, soon. It's made me so freaking pissed this month to think about how Cubs fans never have to even think about this crap.

 

If that's not enough, just read the Dodgers or Tigers message boards, where they get downright irate about four consecutive playoff appearances without a World Series winner.

 

With the Dodgers, it's now 10 in a row where they qualified for the playoffs but haven't won the World Series, dating back to Kirk Gibson's heroics against Dennis Eckersley in 1988. Read the latest Dylan Hernandez column in the LA Times to get a feeling what it's like to have high or elevated expectations as a fanbase.

 

We have all of four playoff appearances in that same time period.

 

 

And this whole idea about the Cubs "being financially over-committed or cash-strapped," we haven't seen any signs of it yet. They'll probably do the smart thing on passing on a huge deal for Arrieta and use their remaining depth in position players to make some deals to supplement their rotation.

[Nokona]

They are built so well, young controllable talent, $$$ available for FA's. Heck their worst position player just got signed to a massive contract in Heyward and it doesn't even faze them. It would cripple most teams. I just really hope the Sox do the right thing and blow it up and truly rebuild.

 

If the Cubs sign Arrieta to a long term deal they'll have something ridiculous like 70+ million tied into him, a late 30s Lester and Heyward. Their payroll will become a serious issue.

[Lip Man 1]

If the Cubs sign Arrieta to a long term deal they'll have something ridiculous like 70+ million tied into him, a late 30s Lester and Heyward. Their payroll will become a serious issue.

 

I don't think it will matter in the least. Wait till you see the money they get when they start their own Cubs-TV Network in 2019.

 

Mark

 

[caulfield12]

I don't think it will matter in the least. Wait till you see the money they get when they start their own Cubs-TV Network in 2019.

 

Mark

 

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Cubs-...twork-Soon.html

Assume that deal in the last paragraph expires in 2019?

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0124-story.html

Good article looking at pros and cons of own network

 

http://cubbiescrib.com/2016/01/25/chicago-...isk-and-reward/

 

 

 

 

[COACH612]

VERY well stated.

 

Mark

 

 

And who cares about many years ago. I am talking about the last 25 years. Wrigleyville was a dump many years ago but that does not count anymore. My point is that no matter how the Sox do compared to the Cubs, they Cubs will always fill their seats because of the stuff outside and around the stadium. Sox can't compete with that.

[Dick Allen]

And who cares about many years ago. I am talking about the last 25 years. Wrigleyville was a dump many years ago but that does not count anymore. My point is that no matter how the Sox do compared to the Cubs, they Cubs will always fill their seats because of the stuff outside and around the stadium. Sox can't compete with that.

I was up by Wrigley Field yesterday. About half the bars are gone. It is a construction zone. It will probably be really nice when it is completed.

[Jake]

The Sox when most of us were kids had Frank Thomas, a very rare type of player that made it easy to love the team regardless of wins and losses. I really think it's that simple. If you have charismatic teams that compete, it's easy to be a fan. But even when you don't, having a guy like Frank Thomas makes it easy. The Big Hurt wasn't a media darling, didn't have great things to say in interviews, but was a fabulous player and person and his at bats were appointment TV.