The Decline of White Sox Fan Culture

[captain54]

Well there you go. You finally acknowledged that you are just ignoring the facts here. At least I got that far. My work here is done.

 

I acknowledged your "fact" and stated it was irrelevant in the big picture of things .. And of course you blew that off

 

This is getting a little scary. And a complete waste of my time. See ya

Edited October 28, 2016 by captain54

[Thad Bosley]

Well for one fan base in this town...

Yes, the fan base that has only witnessed 9 trips to the postseason in 116 years of its existence. That fan base.

[captain54]

Yes, the fan base that has only witnessed 9 trips to the postseason in 116 years of its existence. That fan base.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 26, 2016 -> 01:35 PM) *

Realistically, less than half of that 116 years is even relevant anymore. If you want to make an honest assessment of the situation, you probably narrow your search and should consider the people who are actually alive today.

 

That means you have an entire generation of people who are 30 and younger who have never seen the White Sox as the #1 team in this town.

 

So while it looks imposing to quote the 1920's, 30's and 40's and even the 50's, as somehow important to today, it isn't. You have to be pushing the mid 60's years old to even remember a game played in the 1950's. Quoting the 1920's as relevant here is like saying that the Republicans voted for the repeal of slavery, as if it is relevant to 2016. It isn't. Chicago is a Cubs town, and pretty solidly has been since the 1950's and early 1960's.

 

Thad, you might need to adjust your statement, to..."the fan base that witnessed 4 trips to the post season in 31 yrs" ..because nothing pre-1985 matters in relation to looking back at how the Cub vs Sox dynamic actually works

 

In the future please disregard any reference to

a period of two decades of winning baseball in the last half of the 20th century on the South Side, and how it lead to the Cubs being an afterthought in this town

 

Also disregard 80% of the films and TV shows produced in the last century. Not important. Most people alive today don't care

 

goes for music too. Beatles, Stones, Elvis, David Bowie, Pink Floyd, The Who, Zeppelin, Muddy Waters, Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, James Brown. Most people alive today weren't around when these artists were in their heyday

 

And while you're at it, disregard the majority of events, (and whether any lessons can be learned from them) centered around WWII, the Holocaust, Nuclear War, Space Exploration, Medical Advances, Civil Rights, Womens Rights, the environment, the judicial system, energy, and the economy, that occurred pre-1980, because most people that are alive today weren't around then...

 

Do you see how that works?

Edited October 28, 2016 by captain54

[southsider2k5]

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 26, 2016 -> 01:35 PM) *

Realistically, less than half of that 116 years is even relevant anymore. If you want to make an honest assessment of the situation, you probably narrow your search and should consider the people who are actually alive today.

 

That means you have an entire generation of people who are 30 and younger who have never seen the White Sox as the #1 team in this town.

 

So while it looks imposing to quote the 1920's, 30's and 40's and even the 50's, as somehow important to today, it isn't. You have to be pushing the mid 60's years old to even remember a game played in the 1950's. Quoting the 1920's as relevant here is like saying that the Republicans voted for the repeal of slavery, as if it is relevant to 2016. It isn't. Chicago is a Cubs town, and pretty solidly has been since the 1950's and early 1960's.

 

Thad, you might need to adjust your statement, to..."the fan base that witnessed 4 trips to the post season in 31 yrs" ..because nothing pre-1985 matters in relation to looking back at how the Cub vs Sox dynamic actually works

 

In the future please disregard any reference to

a period of two decades of winning baseball in the last half of the 20th century on the South Side, and how it lead to the Cubs being an afterthought in this town

 

Also disregard 80% of the films and TV shows produced in the last century. Not important. Most people alive today don't care

 

goes for music too. Beatles, Stones, Elvis, David Bowie, Pink Floyd, The Who, Zeppelin, Muddy Waters, Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, James Brown. Most people alive today weren't around when these artists were in their heyday

 

And while you're at it, disregard the majority of events, (and whether any lessons can be learned from them) centered around WWII, the Holocaust, Nuclear War, Space Exploration, Medical Advances, Civil Rights, Womens Rights, the environment, the judicial system, energy, and the economy, that occurred pre-1980, because most people that are alive today weren't around then...

 

Do you see how that works?

 

Wow, this might be the most impressive and irrelevant meltdown I have ever seen. You managed to invoke the holocaust into a discussion about baseball fans in Chicago. Nice exploitation.

[bmags]

I'm glad we could all finally come to grips that old people don't matter.

[captain54]

I'm glad we could all finally come to grips that old people don't matter.

 

or anything old .. for that matter....

 

just think of the Billions of $$$ that could be saved with the elimination of history curriculums in HS's and Universities across the nation.. not to mention literature, philosophy, law, classical music, opera, architecture, design studies, etc...

Edited October 28, 2016 by captain54

[captain54]

Wow, this might be the most impressive and irrelevant meltdown I have ever seen. You managed to invoke the holocaust into a discussion about baseball fans in Chicago. Nice exploitation.

 

similar to how you invoked slavery into a baseball discussion?

Edited October 28, 2016 by captain54

[Thad Bosley]

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 26, 2016 -> 01:35 PM) *

Realistically, less than half of that 116 years is even relevant anymore. If you want to make an honest assessment of the situation, you probably narrow your search and should consider the people who are actually alive today.

 

That means you have an entire generation of people who are 30 and younger who have never seen the White Sox as the #1 team in this town.

 

So while it looks imposing to quote the 1920's, 30's and 40's and even the 50's, as somehow important to today, it isn't. You have to be pushing the mid 60's years old to even remember a game played in the 1950's. Quoting the 1920's as relevant here is like saying that the Republicans voted for the repeal of slavery, as if it is relevant to 2016. It isn't. Chicago is a Cubs town, and pretty solidly has been since the 1950's and early 1960's.

 

Thad, you might need to adjust your statement, to..."the fan base that witnessed 4 trips to the post season in 31 yrs" ..because nothing pre-1985 matters in relation to looking back at how the Cub vs Sox dynamic actually works

 

In the future please disregard any reference to

a period of two decades of winning baseball in the last half of the 20th century on the South Side, and how it lead to the Cubs being an afterthought in this town

 

Also disregard 80% of the films and TV shows produced in the last century. Not important. Most people alive today don't care

 

goes for music too. Beatles, Stones, Elvis, David Bowie, Pink Floyd, The Who, Zeppelin, Muddy Waters, Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, James Brown. Most people alive today weren't around when these artists were in their heyday

 

And while you're at it, disregard the majority of events, (and whether any lessons can be learned from them) centered around WWII, the Holocaust, Nuclear War, Space Exploration, Medical Advances, Civil Rights, Womens Rights, the environment, the judicial system, energy, and the economy, that occurred pre-1980, because most people that are alive today weren't around then...

 

Do you see how that works?

No can do, Captain! You can't restrict observations around here to just the Jerry Reinsdorf era. That's what's known in these parts as "shtick". Can't go there!!

 

[bmags]

or anything old .. for that matter....

 

just think of the Billions of $$$ that could be saved with the elimination of history curriculums in HS's and Universities across the nation.. not to mention literature, philosophy, law, classical music, opera, architecture, design studies, etc...

 

At least the removal of all of that would eliminate some of the non sequiters from this conversation.

 

"Let's review 50 years of history" "WHY ARE YOU ELIMINATING THE JURASSIC PERIOD"

[The Mighty Mite]

I started following the Sox way back in 1952, I grew up in probably the best era to be a Sox fan. 17 straight winning seasons and won over 90 games 7 times. We had the misfortune of no wild cards and in the same league as the Yankees.

And yes it was a Sox town in those days, back then 1,000,000 in home attendance was the holy grail, we drew over a million 15 of those years while the Cubs were drawing 600,000 to 800,000.

 

I was a vendor in 1962 at both parks, I was lucky if I made 5 bucks a game at Wrigley while at Comiskey I would make between 15 and 20 bucks a game, not bad for a 16 year old

 

I went away to the Air Force in 1965 and when I was discharged in 1969, things had changed like over night, the Cubs were the darlings and we were forgotten and only drew 495,000 in 1970. They brought in Hemond and Tanner and by 1972 we were contenders again, in 1973 the Sox drew their largest crowd ever when 55,555 showed up for a DH against the Twins. The attendance battle was about even and after we won the division in 83 the Sox were talk of the town while Lee Elia threw a tantrum against Cub fans. We lost Harry Caray in 82 and the Tribune bought the Cubs, when they won the division in 84, again things changed and this time for good. Except for the new park opening in 91 and the 2005 Championship season the Sox have been an afterthought in the Metro area , this is now 3 decades and I don't see it ever changing. Drastic changes are needed, a new park in a more desirable area, new ownership with deep pockets to invest in a minor league system that produces players who have the potential to become stars and signing premier free agents. Whoever owns the Sox needs to build a team that makes it to the postseason more than once every 10 years, 3 or 4 postseason appearances in a row will hopefully get people talking about the Sox again. If these things don't happen, I hate to say it but when the lease is up, the White Sox will probably move to another city.

Edited October 29, 2016 by The Mighty Mite

[WBWSF]

I heard that the store on 35th street, "Grandstand" has new owners. Has anybody heard anything to confirm this?

[Hatchetman]

I started following the Sox way back in 1952, I grew up in probably the best era to be a Sox fan. 17 straight winning seasons and won over 90 games 7 times. We had the misfortune of no wild cards and in the same league as the Yankees.

And yes it was a Sox town in those days, back then 1,000,000 in home attendance was the holy grail, we drew over a million 15 of those years while the Cubs were drawing 600,000 to 800,000.

 

I was a vendor in 1962 at both parks, I was lucky if I made 5 bucks a game at Wrigley while at Comiskey I would make between 15 and 20 bucks a game, not bad for a 16 year old

 

I went away to the Air Force in 1965 and when I was discharged in 1969, things had changed like over night, the Cubs were the darlings and we were forgotten and only drew 495,000 in 1970. They brought in Hemond and Tanner and by 1972 we were contenders again, in 1973 the Sox drew their largest crowd ever when 55,555 showed up for a DH against the Twins. The attendance battle was about even and after we won the division in 83 the Sox were talk of the town while Lee Elia threw a tantrum against Cub fans. We lost Harry Caray in 82 and the Tribune bought the Cubs, when they won the division in 84, again things changed and this time for good. Except for the new park opening in 91 and the 2005 Championship season the Sox have been an afterthought in the Metro area , this is now 3 decades and I don't see it ever changing. Drastic changes are needed, a new park in a more desirable area, new ownership with deep pockets to invest in a minor league system that produces players who have the potential to become stars and signing premier free agents. Whoever owns the Sox needs to build a team that makes it to the postseason more than once every 10 years, 3 or 4 postseason appearances in a row will hopefully get people talking about the Sox again. If these things don't happen, I hate to say it but when the lease is up, the White Sox will probably move to another city.

 

 

Thanks for sharing!

[The Mighty Mite]

Thanks for sharing!

 

You're welcome, you know it doesn't bother me all that much that the Sox are the second team in the second city, what does bother me is that it's not even close. Somehow the Sox have to build up the fan base and the only way do that is with an exciting team that is able to contend on a yearly basis, we need to do something that has never occured in the long history of the franchise and that is get to the postseason 2 or 3 years in a row.

Edited October 30, 2016 by The Mighty Mite

[captain54]

The attendance battle was about even and after we won the division in 83 the Sox were talk of the town while Lee Elia threw a tantrum against Cub fans. We lost Harry Caray in 82 and the Tribune bought the Cubs, when they won the division in 84, again things changed and this time for good.

 

One important factor in the turnaround was the demographic change. Lakeview and Wrigleyview were really starting to get hot in the mid 80's.. I lived not too far from Wrigley in the mid 80's, and in a matter of a year or two, the area became the new "go to"... before that, anything north of Belmont was no man's land..

[kitekrazy]

I was hoping my NFL team would provide some relief but it feels like a lateral transition with poor coaching, under achieving, bad GM moves. It depends on what happens in the off season I just may walk away from the bandwagon and only return if they are winning.

[Reddy]

All I know is that I've never cared less about the White Sox than I do now, and I've been die hard my whole life. It's a pretty big bummer.

[sammy esposito]

All I know is that I've never cared less about the White Sox than I do now, and I've been die hard my whol e life. It's a pretty big bummer.

`Sorry about your life being a bummer, prior Sox need a new owner with a new vision. A change of pace someone without any mlb controversies. A new owner can cause this excitement a GM can't

[Balta1701]

I guess somehow I feel some gratitude to Rick and Kenny this morning.

 

The me from 5 years ago would have been much angrier today. Now it's just a grudging acceptance.

 

That partnership has made me care about baseball far less than I did previously, and based on this test it isn't just this team.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, in 2003 or so I would have been livid.

 

Now it's a bregrudging respect for the Cubs doing things right and following their plan to a T...investing in Latin America, investing in one of the best managers in the game and a gaggle of top-notch front office people.

 

I would have hated Ricketts back then as well...the feeling today is more one of happiness for the sport of baseball and its future, but less and less about the White Sox.

 

In fact, it has made me realize how much I still love the game, and also why following the likes of Yasiel Puig or rooting for the small market Royals or this season the Indians whenever the White Sox were already eliminated provided enough motivation to keep the flames burning in terms of cherishing the sport and its long history that is unlike any other.

[Hatchetman]

Sure is a fabulous game isn't it? I've forgotten what a meaningful game feels like. Sort of like the face of an old high school friend....you sort of remember it, but not the details exactly.

[Southwest Sider]

If these things don't happen, I hate to say it but when the lease is up, the White Sox will probably move to another city.

 

Thanks for sharing your post. While I agree with a majority of it, I have to say that I disagree about the Sox moving to a new city.

 

This is one of the largest cities in America, and while Sox fans may not be as plentiful as Cub fans, there are still a LOT of them. I work in a grocery store and obviously the Cubs have been the hot topic. This is definitely a small sample size but I feel like it can be applied... while we were all talking about the Cubs, my usual rhetoric was "I'm a Sox fan but this stuff is still pretty cool!". And I was amazed at how many people actually admitted that they were Sox fans, too. I feel like you can successfully extrapolate this sample size over the majority of Chicagoland. I forgot if I read the stat on here or somewhere else, but someone said that the ratio of Cubs fans to Sox fans on Twitter is 7 to 2. Not particularly impressive for our Sox; it speaks to how badly Reinsdorf has been running this franchise. But if that ratio is a good representation of ACTUAL Cubs fans to Sox fans, then that means that there are still a LOT of Sox fans. I think the Cubs will definitely win a majority of new baseball fans, but there are still Sox families who raise their children Sox fans, and new baseball fans who like to root for the underdog. The Sox absolutely cannot move. Generations of White Sox fans would be isolated, and a franchise with a rich history (albeit not a winning one) would be eliminated. No Paul Konerko statue. No Frank Thomas statue. None of the countless historic Sox players will be remembered if Comiskey closes. This is just a disgruntled, irritated fanbase right now, waiting for our day again. Most diehards have gone into waiting for either Reinsdorf to sell, or to pass. I don't wish death upon anyone, but that is the reality and I'm not wishing JR dies, just kinda hanging out here with my favorite baseball team being the definition of suck.

 

Thanks again for sharing.

[Southwest Sider]

Yeah, in 2003 or so I would have been livid.

 

Now it's a bregrudging respect for the Cubs doing things right and following their plan to a T...investing in Latin America, investing in one of the best managers in the game and a gaggle of top-notch front office people.

 

I would have hated Ricketts back then as well...the feeling today is more one of happiness for the sport of baseball and its future, but less and less about the White Sox.

 

In fact, it has made me realize how much I still love the game, and also why following the likes of Yasiel Puig or rooting for the small market Royals or this season the Indians whenever the White Sox were already eliminated provided enough motivation to keep the flames burning in terms of cherishing the sport and its long history that is unlike any other.

 

Respect. Like you, I actively rooted against the Cubs in 2003. When it seemed to be a sure thing that they were going to the World Series in 03, I had to actually take some time to come to grips with the acceptance of it. Luckily for our fanbase, 2005 happened. Without that happy moment in my baseball fan life, I'd have some weird mixture of happiness for family/friends, complete embarrassment with the Sox, and pure jealousy of how the Cubs have done what they did. I already have a weird mixture of emotions like that, but it is lessened. Possibly this is due to having a more adult perspective, I mean, I was only 15 going on 16 in 2003. But I have to think that the Sox actually doing it once really helps. Like you said though, respect. Tom Ricketts runs his organization the right way, and it's proven how quickly a franchise can turn around.

[The Beast]

I've thought about opening lines of communication with Brooks Boyer asking him to get in touch with the gamesay operations team to bring back things like Pirates of the Caribbean with Thunderstruck before games, the "Let's Go White Sox" song during the game, getting some more loud things to get fans involved during the game and maybe players might consider more intimidating music entering the game - I'd love to hear some "Harvest of Sorrow" in the game again. It would be nice if the place wasn't so chill all of the time and see fans get pumped up for a change...other than when the Checy Pride crew comes out with free t-shirts.

[ewokpelts]

I heard that the store on 35th street, "Grandstand" has new owners. Has anybody heard anything to confirm this?

Looks to be the same family. Maybe the kids took over.

[jenksycat]

I've thought about opening lines of communication with Brooks Boyer asking him to get in touch with the gamesay operations team to bring back things like Pirates of the Caribbean with Thunderstruck before games, the "Let's Go White Sox" song during the game, getting some more loud things to get fans involved during the game and maybe players might consider more intimidating music entering the game - I'd love to hear some "Harvest of Sorrow" in the game again. It would be nice if the place wasn't so chill all of the time and see fans get pumped up for a change...other than when the Checy Pride crew comes out with free t-shirts.

 

I think when there's only 500 people in the stands there's not going to be a lot of noise regardless.