Ashton Carter Stops DoD Collecting Bonuses from CA Guard Soldiers

[lostfan]

Congress is ultimately gonna have to be the ones who resolve this, but it's good that the SECDEF stepped in. This would have been considered a breach of contract if it worked in the other direction, and while I get why the CA Guard was trying to get the money back (it's the law), this was pretty f***ed up.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/secretary-defense...ory?id=43070700

[NorthSideSox72]

Congress is ultimately gonna have to be the ones who resolve this, but it's good that the SECDEF stepped in. This would have been considered a breach of contract if it worked in the other direction, and while I get why the CA Guard was trying to get the money back (it's the law), this was pretty f***ed up.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/secretary-defense...ory?id=43070700

When I read about this it got my blood boiling. I can't believe, even this nearly useless Congress, couldn't find a way to authorize stopping this.

 

[southsider2k5]

This whole thing has been a freaking disaster. I am really glad someone stepped in and stopped this. People who served have it bad enough, getting chased around to give back what little money they get for doing it? Oy.

[Kyyle23]

This happened to my brother, he got his enlistment bonus and when he went full time they told him he owed it all back. It was a nightmare for him

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Just like the VA scandal, which still continues without much coverage, Obama gets yet another pass on some terrible management/policies when it comes to our vets. How did no one in his administration raise a hand and say this is bulls*** and a terrible idea?

Edited October 26, 2016 by JenksIsMyHero

[Quin]

Just like the VA scandal, which still continues without much coverage, Obama gets yet another pass on some terrible management/policies when it comes to our vets. How does no one in his administration raise a hand and say this is bulls*** and a terrible idea?

 

Did you miss the first two words in this thread title?

[lostfan]

Just like the VA scandal, which still continues without much coverage, Obama gets yet another pass on some terrible management/policies when it comes to our vets. How does no one in his administration raise a hand and say this is bulls*** and a terrible idea?

Ashton Carter is not a part of the Obama administration? That's news to me. I thought Secretary of Defense was a Cabinet position. It's not?

[Jenksismyhero]

Did you miss the first two words in this thread title?

 

I meant earlier, like before they enacted the policy...

[Jenksismyhero]

Sorry, I wrote "does" instead of "did" in my original post. My bad.

[Quin]

Sorry, I wrote "does" instead of "did" in my original post. My bad.

 

You're all good. My confusion was just running high.

[StrangeSox]

"thing gets attention, is immediately fixed" seems like a pretty good response to me?

 

Apparently some in Congress had been trying to do something, but forgiving these accidental payments had to be considered "new spending" per current House rules and thus offset by cuts in other programs, sot that was the sticking point.

[Jenksismyhero]

"thing gets attention, is immediately fixed" seems like a pretty good response to me?

 

Apparently some in Congress had been trying to do something, but forgiving these accidental payments had to be considered "new spending" per current House rules and thus offset by cuts in other programs, sot that was the sticking point.

 

Immediately fixed seems like a stretch. The ABC article makes it seem like people were b****ing for 2 years.

 

I don't get the puppy gloves when it comes to Obama. If this were Bush circa 2005 he would have been blamed personally much like he was for the DoD's policies in Iraq/Afghanistan.

[lostfan]

1. The Obama administration doesn't manage the CA Guard, California manages the CA Guard.

2. The DoD manages itself administratively most of the time, even moreso than most government agencies because it's so big. It has its own internal bureaucracy. That's how they discovered the issue of fraudulent bonuses in the first place. The result was at least one court martial (to my knowledge) and a prison sentence.

3. The DoD's budget (which was the issue here) comes from the NDAA every year, which is authorized by Congress. They hadn't yet, for whatever reason.

 

It's really lazy to just default to "Obama f***ed up." When it got high-level attention they took action.

[lostfan]

Immediately fixed seems like a stretch. The ABC article makes it seem like people were b****ing for 2 years.

 

I don't get the puppy gloves when it comes to Obama. If this were Bush circa 2005 he would have been blamed personally much like he was for the DoD's policies in Iraq/Afghanistan.

Bush got blamed for those because those were POLICY decisions, which he WAS personally responsible for. Not administrative issues. The president really doesn't even have time to micromanage the DoD.

[Jenksismyhero]

1. The Obama administration doesn't manage the CA Guard, California manages the CA Guard.

2. The DoD manages itself administratively most of the time, even moreso than most government agencies because it's so big. It has its own internal bureaucracy. That's how they discovered the issue of fraudulent bonuses in the first place. The result was at least one court martial (to my knowledge) and a prison sentence.

3. The DoD's budget (which was the issue here) comes from the NDAA every year, which is authorized by Congress. They hadn't yet, for whatever reason.

 

It's really lazy to just default to "Obama f***ed up." When it got high-level attention they took action.

 

Yet you have the Secretary taking unilateral action to "fix" the problem. It's not an excuse that it's up to Congress if ultimately someone can step forward and say, this is a bulls*** policy, we're going to stop.

 

It's lazy to blame any President for a variety of executive/management blunders that happen 40 people down the line, I agree. Yet we do it anyway, with every President, except Obama gets a pass on it most of the time and I don't know why. The VA is STILL having major problems with wait times, 2 years after the scandal was "addressed."

[lostfan]

Yet you have the Secretary taking unilateral action to "fix" the problem. It's not an excuse that it's up to Congress if ultimately someone can step forward and say, this is a bulls*** policy, we're going to stop.

 

It's lazy to blame any President for a variety of executive/management blunders that happen 40 people down the line, I agree. Yet we do it anyway, with every President, except Obama gets a pass on it most of the time and I don't know why. The VA is STILL having major problems with wait times, 2 years after the scandal was "addressed."

It's not unilateral action, it's really not his problem to fix. This is a band-aid which gives the soldiers some breathing room. Congress still needs to fix this.

[Jenksismyhero]

Bush got blamed for those because those were POLICY decisions, which he WAS personally responsible for. Not administrative issues. The president really doesn't even have time to micromanage the DoD.

 

Some were policy decisions, others went far beyond and he was blamed for the "culture" that was tolerated, which was and is still bulls***. You're right, they don't have the time to micromanage, so they appoint people that they believe is the best person for the job. And when those people fail to run their departments, it reflects on the person who appointed them in the first place.

[southsider2k5]

Yet you have the Secretary taking unilateral action to "fix" the problem. It's not an excuse that it's up to Congress if ultimately someone can step forward and say, this is a bulls*** policy, we're going to stop.

 

It's lazy to blame any President for a variety of executive/management blunders that happen 40 people down the line, I agree. Yet we do it anyway, with every President, except Obama gets a pass on it most of the time and I don't know why. The VA is STILL having major problems with wait times, 2 years after the scandal was "addressed."

 

The VA has been a clusterf*** for decades, not years. They spent the last 45 years of my dad's life fairly actively trying to kill him at various points.

 

This getting fixed I can respect. It was a PR disaster even for the amount of time it went on, but once it broke, it seems like pretty quickly it got nixed. The VA on the other hand is actively murdering vets still though their negligence and lack of care and resources. It is inexcusable, and quite literally every time the subject of respecting vets comes up, I make sure to tell people if they really respected our vets, they'd be making angry phone calls to their Congressmen about the state of the VA.

[Quin]

Some were policy decisions, others went far beyond and he was blamed for the "culture" that was tolerated, which was and is still bulls***. You're right, they don't have the time to micromanage, so they appoint people that they believe is the best person for the job. And when those people fail to run their departments, it reflects on the person who appointed them in the first place.

 

...like Ashton Carter?

[lostfan]

I don't know how whatever the "VA scandal" is supposed to have been became a political issue. (well ok, actually I do, but not the point). It's always had long wait times and been a pretty miserable experience, basically since Vietnam. I don't even know how you fix that actually.

[bmags]

I don't know how whatever the "VA scandal" is supposed to have been became a political issue. (well ok, actually I do, but not the point). It's always had long wait times and been a pretty miserable experience, basically since Vietnam. I don't even know how you fix that actually.

 

I think they need to decide whether this gov-provided system is capable of being fixed. I have my doubts considering it's funding.

[southsider2k5]

I don't know how whatever the "VA scandal" is supposed to have been became a political issue. (well ok, actually I do, but not the point). It's always had long wait times and been a pretty miserable experience, basically since Vietnam. I don't even know how you fix that actually.

 

Honestly, I don't think an honest effort would be put into it, as there isn't enough outrage about it. My opinion is instead of dumping more money into that busted system, just let them go to their regular doctors and hospitals outside of the VA, and have them cover their costs there, instead of just when the VA gets around to deciding it OK to seek outside treatment.

[lostfan]

Honestly, I don't think an honest effort would be put into it, as there isn't enough outrage about it. My opinion is instead of dumping more money into that busted system, just let them go to their regular doctors and hospitals outside of the VA, and have them cover their costs there, instead of just when the VA gets around to deciding it OK to seek outside treatment.

I wonder would it be cheaper to just give them some form of heavily subsidized insurance, and then just have the VA do administrative stuff (GI Bill payments, VA loans, injury rates, etc.)

[southsider2k5]

I wonder would it be cheaper to just give them some form of heavily subsidized insurance, and then just have the VA do administrative stuff (GI Bill payments, VA loans, injury rates, etc.)

 

I really doubt that care could be provided cheaper than what the VA does, mostly because they either do it in house for cheap, or they pretend that nothing is wrong with you until they pretty much can't anymore. In the case of Agent Orange was something like decades.

 

Really we as a country just need to actually put up and fully fund what we promised these people. That is the biggest problem here.

[StrangeSox]

I think they need to decide whether this gov-provided system is capable of being fixed. I have my doubts considering it's funding.

 

They tried that "Vet's Choice" voucher system or whatever it was called starting a couple of years back, and that didn't work so hot either.

 

I wonder would it be cheaper to just give them some form of heavily subsidized insurance, and then just have the VA do administrative stuff (GI Bill payments, VA loans, injury rates, etc.)

 

Medicare-for-vets might be a decent option.

Edited October 26, 2016 by StrangeSox