Potential + Effects of the World Series?

[caulfield12]

Let's imagine the doomsday (hopefully this thread disappears tonight or tmrw) scenario happens and the Cubs do win it all.

 

On the negative side, the White Sox will practically cease to exist this offseason, and the Indians would be doubly motivated to make another run at the World Series in 2017 with Brantley, Carrasco and Santana all back in the fold, not to mention the additional veterans (like Pearce, mentioned in another thread) to supplement the current roster's few weaknesses. We've seen over and over again in sports, the team that just barely misses a title come back the next year, and, likewise, the title-winning team runs out of gas or loses its motivation and focus after all the celebrating and media attention becomes a never-ending distraction.

 

This gives the White Sox even more cover to operate under the radar and start the rebuilding process in full.

 

No first round draft pick protection, a scarce number of FA assets available, payroll pressures due to flat or negative revenue growth (taking into consideration discounted tickets over time) and few minor league prospects that would be in high demand for other teams.

 

The other positives is that overall revenues/popularity (at least in the short-term) for MLB and MLB Media will grow...more young people will become interested in the sport (especially in Chicago) and a rising tide floats ALL boats, so the White Sox franchise value would actually grow by 5-10%.

 

The positive (or negative) effect on the broadcasting rights climate in 2019 is another story altogether, although by rebuilding NOW, there's an extremely high likelihood they SHOULD have a competitive team by that time, rather than the approach of the last couple of off-seasons of trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

 

Over the span of 5-7 years out from now (which seems like forever, in this moment), the Cubs will start to eventually lose some of the "Lovable Losers" appeal and they'll instead begin to morph into a corporate conglomerate franchise more and more like the Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees that is judged more by wins and losses (and titles) than the touristic reasons of/for attending a game at Fenway or Wrigley. This will especially be the case if they were to win multiple WS titles or make the playoffs 3-4-5 times consecutively.

Edited November 2, 2016 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

So much for this game, oops....Addison Russell statue to go up right next to Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber and Maddon.

[fathom]

Yeah winning titles really made the Blackhawks less popular.....not

[caulfield12]

The argument isn't "less popular."

 

That won't happen in the first 5-7 years (anyway), but the costs of attending Cubs' games will slowly become more and more like Red Sox and Yankees, where the corporations and "upper crust" fans will start to change the experience of attending games, except for in the bleachers, perhaps...

[SCCWS]

The argument isn't "less popular."

 

That won't happen in the first 5-7 years (anyway), but the costs of attending Cubs' games will slowly become more and more like Red Sox and Yankees, where the corporations and "upper crust" fans will start to change the experience of attending games, except for in the bleachers, perhaps...

 

 

HUH??? Cubs in 2016 had the highest median price for tickets in baseball.

 

[kitekrazy]

I'm still looking for evidence this organization has the ability to rebuild. You can only draft so many pitchers. So they drafted a catcher in the 1st round where they may move to another position?

[kitekrazy]

Yeah winning titles really made the Blackhawks less popular.....not

 

It's harder to do in MLB. There hasn't been back to back WS victories in baseball for quite some time.

 

[fathom]

It's harder to do in MLB. There hasn't been back to back WS victories in baseball for quite some time.

 

They could easily go on a 3 titles in 5 year run

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Holy s***, how many times are we going to discuss the fallout of the Cubs winning the World Series? Some of you guys are so damn insecure.

Edited November 2, 2016 by ChiliIrishHammock24

[SonofaRoache]

The Sox are done being relevant. They are now the Milwaukee Bucks or Cleveland Browns. This will be a cubs town and the Sox will just be here for s***s and giggles. Mainly, because our front office doesn't have a clue.

[southsideirish71]

The only thing to worry about is some sort of over reaction by JR. Maybe the selling of cost controlled assets on a player or two for a foolish run at nothing.

[caulfield12]

Holy s***, how many times are we going to discuss the fallout of the Cubs winning the World Series? Some of you guys are so damn insecure.

 

Unfortunately, it's far and away the most compelling thing to talk about regarding the baseball world right now, and it's especially relevant to White Sox fans.

 

If the majority of Sox fans had even paid any attention after July...but that's just not the case. Even this week, we get the Guaranteed Rate stuff in our face again, it's like a never-ending loop of insults and jibes.

Edited November 2, 2016 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

The Cubs winning today and tomorrow will have zero effect on the White Sox. They are already so low on the totem pole it doesn't matter. 2005 and the following years showed us one thing. The Sox have to win in October and win a lot to be relevant. Until they can do that, nothing else matters.

[caulfield12]

They could easily go on a 3 titles in 5 year run

 

Unless the Pirates see quick development out of the next wave of young players, there's not much in the NL Central to stop them, with the Cardinals probably on a downward trend as well with a mostly veteran-laden roster.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Hopefully the Sox brass would see what they did on the other side of town and the fruits of their labor. Unfortunately, we can probably look forward to a few minor free agent signings.

[fathom]

The Cubs winning today and tomorrow will have zero effect on the White Sox. They are already so low on the totem pole it doesn't matter. 2005 and the following years showed us one thing. The Sox have to win in October and win a lot to be relevant. Until they can do that, nothing else matters.

 

Agreed kinda feel like everyone that was going to jump on the Cubs bandwagon already has, regardless of the next 25 hours

[iamshack]

Agreed kinda feel like everyone that was going to jump on the Cubs bandwagon already has, regardless of the next 25 hours

Absolutely.

 

Both of you are spot-on.

[Flash Tizzle]

If anything, I'd hope any potential Cubs World Series tears apart that last remaining doubt of Sox management about rebuilding. That lingering worry always thrown around of Sox fans not supporting the effort. No, I've never read or heard them verbally say they're reluctant to rebuild (other then the indirect evidence of JR wanting to "go for it.") but obviously they're not very supportive of the idea

 

We need to just throw aside any doubt or worry. Stop thinking whether they successfully can rebuild or not, stop worrying about the remote possibility of the team relocating, and sure as hell not worry aboyt the Cubs. Just do what's best for the future of this TEAM. When you look at the alternatives, there are none that don't involve dumpster diving or hoping for a team wide resurgence. We've done this for many years. Why not try the ONE method we haven't tried?

 

If it's 5 years from now and we're stuck with a terrible rebuilding process, reevaluate. Anyways, what would it matter if we purposely sucked for 5 years or (as we've done since 2012) tried to win but still sucked

Edited November 2, 2016 by Flash Tizzle

[Lip Man 1]

If the Cubs win it tomorrow night their already insufferable fan base will become even more so (if that is indeed even possible), the media which is already pro-Cubs have even more incentive (since fairness is no longer a part of the equation) to basically ignore the Sox save for the bare minimum of coverage. The White Sox and Sox fans will be having this shoved in their faces for the next 100 years. 2005 will basically no longer exist save for the Sox fans who remain (it was already forgotten about by the Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, ESPN and CBS just last week...)

 

Am I exaggerating? Probably....but here's the thing...I'm not exaggerating by much.

 

I'm glad I don't live in Chicago but even here in Idaho it is amazing how many Cub fans there are. I've been hearing and putting up with garbage for a month. When I ask them (they are from Utah / Idaho / Texas / Wisconsin) how they became Cub fans, I get the same answer...SUPERSTATION WGN.

 

Mark

[Lip Man 1]

If anything, I'd hope any potential Cubs World Series tears apart that last remaining doubt of Sox management about rebuilding.

 

I would agree with your thought process if I didn't have 35 years history contradicting it. The Sox have never felt they are in competition with the Cubs, have stated it publicly many time. JR (and for right or wrong you have to admire the strength of his convictions) has never been influenced by the Cubs, Sox fans, the media, agents...never has and never will be.

 

Significant and needed change will come eventually, it has to since time marches on and we are all human.

 

Mark

Edited November 2, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[Flash Tizzle]

I would agree with your thought process if I didn't have 35 years history contradicting it. The Sox have never felt they are in competition with the Cubs, have stated it publicly many time. JR (and for right or wrong you have to admire the strength of his convictions) has never been influenced by the Cubs, Sox fans, the media, agents...never has and never will be.

 

Significant and needed change will come eventually, it has to since time marches on and we are all human.

 

Mark

I hope we're not just waiting for JR to hand over controlling interest/die before these changes come.......but I really wonder if that's what it would take if come 2017 nothing changes.

 

If you do not rebuild with a GM acknowledging their mediocrity, a subpar team in a terrible FA market, with no immediate help available in the minors, AND several appealing SP trading chips to rebuild from, then they will never rebuild under JR.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Flash Tizzle

[Lip Man 1]

I hope we're not just waiting for JR to hand over controlling interest/die before these changes come.......but I really wonder if that's what it would take if come 2017 nothing changes.

 

If you do not rebuild with a GM acknowledging their mediocrity, a subpar team in a terrible FA market, with no immediate help available in the minors, AND several appealing SP trading chips to rebuild from, then they will never rebuild under JR.

 

Things change of course, maybe a Cub World Series championship will totally change the equation. We'll see. But I can only say that the last I had heard from two sources (and posted that on this site) JR does not want to go through a rebuild. Since he's the owner what he wants, he gets.

 

I don't think Rick Hahn has much influence if any with JR...the one person who I think could cause JR to give serious thought to a radical change is Kenny Williams. Kenny is JR's "Rasputen" the two are almost like brothers...if Kenny said "it's time" JR might just might listen.

 

The problem with that scenario is of course Kenny has never admitted failure in his life, it's the ego and football mentally, we've got to "go for it" each and every season. Short term thinking...nothing long term.

 

Again we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Mark

 

[caulfield12]

I would agree with your thought process if I didn't have 35 years history contradicting it. The Sox have never felt they are in competition with the Cubs, have stated it publicly many time. JR (and for right or wrong you have to admire the strength of his convictions) has never been influenced by the Cubs, Sox fans, the media, agents...never has and never will be.

 

Significant and needed change will come eventually, it has to since time marches on and we are all human.

 

Mark

 

It was almost the opposite. The Cubs caught a lot of crap for trading Garland for Karchner, and then him going on to be a key member of the 2005 rotation (although he never became a star, he was at least a very solid 3/4 guy).

 

 

At any rate, with Q/Sale, possibly Eaton (although he might be more valuable to the Sox, and defensive "overemphasis" in terms of WAR might start to correct back in the other direction, see Heyward)...Nate Jones, Frazier, Cabrera/Robertson (salary dumps, mostly) and then Abreu and/or Rodon, they've got a ton of marketable talent.

 

Depending on how much offensive depth they get back, then they can start looking at Abreu and/or Eaton leaving for the right package...and then knowing Rodon will be out the door as a free agent, you have to calculate his value via trade (not as high as it could be, but 3-4X Fulmer right now) versus waiting for him to "put it all together" and have a breakout season.

 

Another big question mark is Collins...whether he can stick as a catcher or becomes DH/1B/corner OF. The one common theme from the post-AJ time has been the lack of leadership and overall impact offensively or defensively coming from the catching position. That has been one of many issues holding the White Sox back compared to the majority of playoff teams.

Edited November 2, 2016 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

The Sox are done being relevant. They are now the Milwaukee Bucks or Cleveland Browns. This will be a cubs town and the Sox will just be here for s***s and giggles. Mainly, because our front office doesn't have a clue.

 

Really funny you didn't use the Golden State Warriors, Dallas Mavericks, or, to continue within the NBA, the f***ing Cleveland Cavaliers within that example. Nevermind the Tampa Bay Rays (who merely were constantly competitive for years and years, despite a terrible payroll), Kansas City Royals, Seattle Seahawks, or Denver Broncos. Save for, maybe, the Broncos, show me the history of winning of those franchises' timelines compared to the White Sox.

 

Also, because it's baseball, the Sox are not done being relevant.

 

In other words...no, guy.

[greg775]

Let's imagine the doomsday (hopefully this thread disappears tonight or tmrw) scenario happens and the Cubs do win it all.

 

On the negative side, the White Sox will practically cease to exist this offseason, and the Indians would be doubly motivated to make another run at the World Series in 2017 with Brantley, Carrasco and Santana all back in the fold, not to mention the additional veterans (like Pearce, mentioned in another thread) to supplement the current roster's few weaknesses. We've seen over and over again in sports, the team that just barely misses a title come back the next year, and, likewise, the title-winning team runs out of gas or loses its motivation and focus after all the celebrating and media attention becomes a never-ending distraction.

 

This gives the White Sox even more cover to operate under the radar and start the rebuilding process in full.

 

No first round draft pick protection, a scarce number of FA assets available, payroll pressures due to flat or negative revenue growth (taking into consideration discounted tickets over time) and few minor league prospects that would be in high demand for other teams.

 

The other positives is that overall revenues/popularity (at least in the short-term) for MLB and MLB Media will grow...more young people will become interested in the sport (especially in Chicago) and a rising tide floats ALL boats, so the White Sox franchise value would actually grow by 5-10%.

 

The positive (or negative) effect on the broadcasting rights climate in 2019 is another story altogether, although by rebuilding NOW, there's an extremely high likelihood they SHOULD have a competitive team by that time, rather than the approach of the last couple of off-seasons of trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

 

Over the span of 5-7 years out from now (which seems like forever, in this moment), the Cubs will start to eventually lose some of the "Lovable Losers" appeal and they'll instead begin to morph into a corporate conglomerate franchise more and more like the Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees that is judged more by wins and losses (and titles) than the touristic reasons of/for attending a game at Fenway or Wrigley. This will especially be the case if they were to win multiple WS titles or make the playoffs 3-4-5 times consecutively.

Good point about Cleveland. They will desperately want to return. Unless Renteria is way better than Robin I'd expect Cleveland to own us again next year.

 

The Sox are done being relevant. They are now the Milwaukee Bucks or Cleveland Browns. This will be a cubs town and the Sox will just be here for s***s and giggles. Mainly, because our front office doesn't have a clue.

We are irrelevant right now for sure. We blew it after 2005. The question is ... can we start contending for the postseason? Right now, no fricking way. This team totally blows entering next season. Now can they acquire some pieces (finally) to go with our playoff-caliber starting rotation? Without an unhittable reliever like Chapman and a catcher, outfielder and second baseman who can hit, forget it.

Edited November 2, 2016 by greg775