captain54 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 12:48 PM) It is rather amusing how thin your skin is that you feel the need to take personal shots at me constantly, even when not in a discussion with you. You have no problem spouting your opinion and not hiding the fact that you have a pretty disparaging view of Sox fans..., disloyal, inferior to Cub fans in terms of quality of their fandom...etc .. and recently, pretty much discounted Sox history or anyone with any recollection of it pre-1985, as totally irrelevant Does it ever occur to you that some folks might take offense to that? feel insulted by that? But when challenged, you start whining and crying that you're being picked on... .. talk about thin skin, guy... sheesh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) The draft is just part of the problem. You can look at what other teams have drafted and look at their 1st round picks and success rate, but that's like trying to diagnose an unknown illness and only looking at 1/3 of the persons body. There is much more to the story. Simply put, the Sox have done an incredibly poor job of identifying talent. In the draft, in trades and in free agent signings. You can create all the lists you want, go nuts. The only list you need to look at is playoff appearances the last 15 years. That gives you the clearest diagnoses there is. Well the draft wouldn't be a big problem if our FO didn't suck at signing FA's for the most part and making horrible trades. If you do the latter you better at least draft well. But this all ties into the rebuild everyone wants because it is trying something different. The fact is this organization has given me zero reason to believe they can rebuild based off trades and the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (captain54 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) You have no problem spouting your opinion and not hiding the fact that you have a pretty disparaging view of Sox fans..., disloyal, inferior to Cub fans in terms of quality of their fandom...etc .. and recently, pretty much discounted Sox history or anyone with any recollection of it pre-1985, as totally irrelevant Does it ever occur to you that some folks might take offense to that? feel insulted by that? But when challenged, you start whining and crying that you're being picked on... .. talk about thin skin, guy... sheesh.. As an outsider to this conversation, not sure what you're adding to the board with these types of comments and attacks? IMO, SS is a great poster and brings a lot to the table. Maybe some of his comments weren't all that inaccurate? Having grown up outside of Illinois, but having been a die hard Sox fan since I was a young child due to my father - I can't say I disagree with some of what you said above. Sox fans on a whole a pretty fickle, negative, and somewhat disloyal group. Obviously not saying all are....but from reading this board and WSI over the years and encountering more and more Sox fans as I get older...there is large chunk that fit that description. Edited November 7, 2016 by ChiSox59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:51 PM) Exactly. Buuuuuuut the Cardinals do other things well as an organization which keeps them competitive year in and year out. The reason the draft hurts our Sox is because we pick high and draft busts. We hit on a few pitchers but since we suck at trading, FA signings, hiring managers etc we need one thing to hang our hats on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 QUOTE (captain54 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) You have no problem spouting your opinion and not hiding the fact that you have a pretty disparaging view of Sox fans..., disloyal, inferior to Cub fans in terms of quality of their fandom...etc .. and recently, pretty much discounted Sox history or anyone with any recollection of it pre-1985, as totally irrelevant Does it ever occur to you that some folks might take offense to that? feel insulted by that? But when challenged, you start whining and crying that you're being picked on... .. talk about thin skin, guy... sheesh.. Seriously, why does anyone else have to care that you are bitter and angry? If you have a problem with me, at least do everyone else on Soxtalk the favor of keeping it in conversations with me. There is zero need for a grown man to be throwing temper tantrums in situations that aren't even relevant to where the person hurt your feelings. At the end of the day, no one else should have to deal with your pouting. I mean if you can't handle an opinion other than your own without feeling insulted, you probably should move on to safer spaces than the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:01 PM) Buuuuuuut the Cardinals do other things well as an organization which keeps them competitive year in and year out. The reason the draft hurts our Sox is because we pick high and draft busts. We hit on a few pitchers but since we suck at trading, FA signings, hiring managers etc we need one thing to hang our hats on. Ugh. Generally, the Sox haven't picked that high. The Sox currently hold some of the best assets in baseball (Sale, Quintana, Eaton) and to a lesser extent (Abreu, Jones, Rodon) due to drafting (Sale, Jones, Rodon), great trades (Eaton) and great signings (Quintana and Abreu). The Sox problems have been filling out the back end of the roster over hte past 8 or so years. Don't get me wrong, the Sox got nothing out of the draft for a long time. Just seems like a weird time to get your panties all in a bunch over the draft. There is obvious improvement there over the past handful of years. Sure, there are still busts (Walker and Barnum included), but every team has those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) I'd like to see the 1st round picks of the Cardinals or Cubs over the past decade. And I know those are strong examples. If not them, maybe throw in an Orioles or Tigers. Kind of middling teams. I wonder how much better or worse their first round picks are.. The Cubs are a bad example because they were horrible at drafting and horrible results followed. They won a world series because they drafted Bryant and Schwarber. They also made up for their stupidity by hiring Epstein and Maddon two guys who know what they are doing. The Cardinals drafting sucks but they find ways to be in the World Series conversation every year. If the Sox were in the World Series conversation almost every year I wouldn't care about their drafting as much. Because clearly they would be finding ways to get talent on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) Ugh. Generally, the Sox haven't picked that high. The Sox currently hold some of the best assets in baseball (Sale, Quintana, Eaton) and to a lesser extent (Abreu, Jones, Rodon) due to drafting (Sale, Jones, Rodon), great trades (Eaton) and great signings (Quintana and Abreu). The Sox problems have been filling out the back end of the roster over hte past 8 or so years. Don't get me wrong, the Sox got nothing out of the draft for a long time. Just seems like a weird time to get your panties all in a bunch over the draft. There is obvious improvement there over the past handful of years. Sure, there are still busts (Walker and Barnum included), but every team has those. I agree with everything you said which is why I don't want a full rebuild. We have assets but need to fill the roster out more strategically. Well I was asked a question and answered it so my panties are in no bunch. It was asked why I didn't trust a rebuild and one of the reasons is I don't trust our FO to consistently make good moves and draft good players. This is why I believe the rebuild will fail too as we'd have to trade the assets you named and start from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain54 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:00 PM) As an outsider to this conversation, not sure what you're adding to the board with these types of comments and attacks? IMO, SS is a great poster and brings a lot to the table. Maybe some of his comments weren't all that inaccurate? Having grown up outside of Illinois, but having been a die hard Sox fan since I was a young child due to my father - I can't say I disagree with some of what you said above. Sox fans on a whole a pretty fickle, negative, and somewhat disloyal group. Obviously not saying all are....but from reading this board and WSI over the years and encountering more and more Sox fans as I get older...there is large chunk that fit that description. You're entitled to your opinion.. and if you think Sox fans are as a fickle bunch, I can say first hand that a good majority of us have stuck with the Sox through some pretty rough times . You live outside of Illinois and if it's convenient for you to generalize the group in the manner you've described.. again, that's your opinion..go for it.. but I would say you don't really have a grasp of the big picture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain54 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:05 PM) Seriously, why does anyone else have to care that you are bitter and angry? If you have a problem with me, at least do everyone else on Soxtalk the favor of keeping it in conversations with me. There is zero need for a grown man to be throwing temper tantrums in situations that aren't even relevant to where the person hurt your feelings. At the end of the day, no one else should have to deal with your pouting. I mean if you can't handle an opinion other than your own without feeling insulted, you probably should move on to safer spaces than the internet. Nobody is bitter, angry, or throwing temper tantrums, my friend... But I get how it works for you, to paint that tableau..the pattern with you is as predictable as the air we breath, if anyone is negative or critical of the organization, they are automatically pegged as bitter, angry and borderline lunatic..... So go for it, by all means... I don't need you to tell me where I should be moving to or how I conduct myself.. thanks anyway.. If you'd like for me to completely ignore you and never post again in response to anything you say or do.. I'd be happy to oblige, if it really bothers you that much.just say the word young man... But in the real world, when you make statements that people might not agree with.. be prepared to take the heat, son... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 QUOTE (captain54 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) Nobody is bitter, angry, or throwing temper tantrums, my friend... But I get how it works for you, to paint that tableau..the pattern with you is as predictable as the air we breath, if anyone is negative or critical of the organization, they are automatically pegged as bitter, angry and borderline lunatic..... So go for it, by all means... I don't need you to tell me where I should be moving to or how I conduct myself.. thanks anyway.. If you'd like for me to completely ignore you and never post again in response to anything you say or do.. I'd be happy to oblige, if it really bothers you that much.just say the word young man... But in the real world, when you make statements that people might not agree with.. be prepared to take the heat, son... Just keep in mind that only one of us is taking this so seriously as to need to drag the other person into arguments that don't exist. If this has so all consumed you that you are still stewing enough on arguments from weeks and months ago that you are STILL trying to refight them, I would offer that you are the one who can't handle a simple disagreement. If it really didn't bother you, you wouldn't still be obsessing over it to the point where you are thinking of me in unrelated posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 The draft for me is more about later rounds and finding players there. That's where your scouting makes its mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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