southsider2k5 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 05:49 PM) Incorrect. He said he would expect a Sale / Boston deal to center around AB. https://twitter.com/barstoolwsd/status/796122487914369024 The Frazier extension is very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 https://audioboom.com/posts/5262056-ep-6-up...gm-meetings?t=0 Podcast with chuck garfien and dan hayes talking about the possibility of rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox...x_sale_quintana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 10:06 AM) http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox...x_sale_quintana "Jose Quintana, another 27-year-old White Sox pitcher who would come relatively cheap and is entering the peak of his career" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/11/08/lev...-term-benefits/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:10 AM) "Jose Quintana, another 27-year-old White Sox pitcher who would come relatively cheap and is entering the peak of his career" Thought that was odd too. Unless he is saying in comparison to Sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:12 AM) Thought that was odd too. Unless he is saying in comparison to Sale. I think he's referencing Quintana's contract rather than the trade haul it would take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I am all for a rebuild, but have no confidence Kenny and Rick are the guys to do it. The Sox scouting department for evaluating talent is just abysmal. Case and point Avi being a 5 tool player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:20 AM) I think he's referencing Quintana's contract rather than the trade haul it would take. Yeah that's something else I considered but forgot to type. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Okay, I'd like to see this boards rankings of how they rank our players in terms of perceived value in the market. AND THEN, Separately which of those you would trade if you are trying to keep anything alive in terms of winning/future. Mine would be: Sale Eaton Q Abreu Frazier Robertson Nate Jones Miguel Gonzalez Melky Lawrie And then I'd trade during the OFFSEASON: Sale, Miguel Gonzalez, Nate Jones, Robertson, Eaton. I'd keep.. Frazier, Abreu, Melky, Lawrie, Q. I don't think Lawrie has as much perceived value now as he would as a mid season addition -- one who comes with an expiring contract, can play multiple positions, etc. I also think someone like a Frazier would have more value during the season. Yes he hit 40HR, but he also batted like .220. Longoria is supposedly available on the market too. Turner, etc. I just think if you wait on him and he ends up hitting like .250 and on pace for 40hr again you can get a TON at the deadline. Also not the worst to keep him. Relatively young. Depending on what you get back for a Sale & the others you can be almost rebuilt in 2-3 years. Frazier could have 5-6 good years left in him... Don't forget the black hole 3B has been for the Sox since Crede... Melky? Not sure why I kept him. Just think he has the same value regardless when you trade him and I like him, so want to see him play ball a bit more. Abreu? Not much of a market IMO. Let the Trumbo and EE, Joey Bats, etc. all play out. I think someone will be more desperate later on. And again, almost like Frazier he could have real value at DH in like 2-3 years when this team might be rocking and rolling... In terms of Q. I'd want to keep him. If you can trade the other guys and have a nice minor leagues you could have Q, Rodon, Fulmer (if he turns a corner) + someone you acquired as a solid 4 man rotation. I think if done properly you can keep a couple of the guys and be considered a dangerous team as soon as 2019. of course that's assuming the FO that's never done anything right gets all the trades right. And I think history shows you never win trades where you give a superstar like Sale,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Mine would be: Sale Quintana Eaton Abreu Frazier Nate Jones Robertson Melky Miguel Gonzalez Lawrie Feel obligated to include the next 3 since they get brought up here) Rodon Anderson Fulmer And then I'd trade during the OFFSEASON: Sale: doesn't really need an explanation, just get a haul Miguel Gonzalez: teams could use backend rotation depth Todd Frazier: only one year left Melky Cabrera: only one year left Lawrie: only one year left, don't think his value is going to change much holding onto him Nate Jones: 5 years left, signed cheap, teams are valuing bullpen more than ever before I'd keep.. Quintana: 4 years of control left, signed cheap, can move in July or next off-season, still have to fill out a team, would move if there is another big haul out there after dealing Sale, however. Abreu: unless we get an offer of 3-4 prospects this off-season, I would hold onto him Robertson: injured last season, just had surgery, value is down, deal him in June/July unless a team pays up Eaton: under control for 5 more years, sort of falls into the same boat as Quintana. Rodon: could be at the front of the rotation on the next good team OR if the rebuild is going horribly, hope he develops enough to deal him with a few years of control left (currently 5); his agent is also Scott Boras so throw the idea of a team-friendly deal out the window Anderson: 6 years of control left; isn't going anywhere Fulmer: 6 years of control left; isn't going anywhere If they deal/keep those guys listed above and without accounting for players brought back (hard to pin point who exactly would come back in all those deals): C: Narvaez and Smith: there will likely be an addition here whether through a trade or free agent signing 1B: Abreu: reasoning above 2B: Sanchez/Saladino: if its a rebuild year, it doesn't matter too much; the other serves as a backup infielder 3B: Davidson: why not? SS: Anderson: obvious LF: Coats: again, in a rebuilding year, nothing to lose playing him; someone probably gets signed to platoon or start over or an MLB-ready player is brought back in a trade (I think the latter is most likely) CF: Tilson: see above RF: Eaton: reasoning above DH: Garcia: probably share this spot with a mix of guys; I can totally see a Matt Holiday signing here on a one year deal Bench: C Smith/Narvaez IF: Saladino/Sanchez OF: Liriano for now Util: Garcia: can cover IF and OF and be used for speed off the bench Starting Pitching: 1. Quintana 2. Rodon 3. Shields (leads this team to a top 3 pick!) 4. Fulmer (gets a crack in a big league rotation) 5. ?: Ranaudo, Turner, or minor league signing or a pickup in a trade Bullpen: Robertson Jennings Burdi (called up after 2 weeks, become eventual close when Robertson is dealt) Putnam Petricka Soto (forgetting some guys; figured we could use another lefty) Ynoa/long reliever (Ranaudo, Turner, minor league signing?) EDIT: now I know it won't look like that on opening day, but I was sort of subtracting off the guys I think may get traded and just sort of replacing them with next guy on the depth chart. Edited November 9, 2016 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 09:26 AM) I am all for a rebuild, but have no confidence Kenny and Rick are the guys to do it. The Sox scouting department for evaluating talent is just abysmal. Case and point Avi being a 5 tool player. We all know the time is now for a rebuild. However, I agree-- it's really hard to trust Hahn and KW to get the necessary prospects back in return. I guess the only thing we can somewhat hold our hat onto is that Nick Hostetler seems to have a real good pulse on prospects. Since they will be avoiding the veteran acquisition route, this may work out after all. If i'm Hahn, i'm putting all my trust in Hostetler's judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 11:39 AM) We all know the time is now for a rebuild. However, I agree-- it's really hard to trust Hahn and KW to get the necessary prospects back in return. I guess the only thing we can somewhat hold our hat onto is that Nick Hostetler seems to have a real good pulse on prospects. Since they will be avoiding the veteran acquisition route, this may work out after all. If i'm Hahn, i'm putting all my trust in Hostetler's judgement. This. I have all the faith in the world right now in Hostetler and co. to make this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 From today's Dave Cameron chat: 12:46 Nick: Should the white sox wait to trade Frazier/Melky until the deadline when the price is higher? One year of Frazier after hitting .220 isn’t going to bring back much, but at the deadline it might inflate the price 12:47 Dave Cameron: Except if you trade him now, the acquiring team can price in a comp pick with a QO next winter. 12:47 Dave Cameron: So the price will be higher now. 12:47 Jesse: Would Benintendi, Kopech and Devers be enough to get Sale? 12:47 Dave Cameron: No Interesting, (1) hadn't thought about the QO factor for Frazier, and (2) that Red Sox deal sounds like one I'd gladly take for Sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 10:49 AM) From today's Dave Cameron chat: Interesting, (1) hadn't thought about the QO factor for Frazier, and (2) that Red Sox deal sounds like one I'd gladly take for Sale. Well, we've already established that you're nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) From today's Dave Cameron chat: Interesting, (1) hadn't thought about the QO factor for Frazier, and (2) that Red Sox deal sounds like one I'd gladly take for Sale. I had thought it even before recent news, but I do believe Frazier gets a long extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) From today's Dave Cameron chat: Interesting, (1) hadn't thought about the QO factor for Frazier, and (2) that Red Sox deal sounds like one I'd gladly take for Sale. It's also why when weighing whether to trade him or not, the Sox need something worth 1 year of Frazier plus a late 1st round pick because that's what they'd get if they let him walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) From today's Dave Cameron chat: Interesting, (1) hadn't thought about the QO factor for Frazier, and (2) that Red Sox deal sounds like one I'd gladly take for Sale. I feel like it's one more prospect short. Or another prospect and one of their catchers as a toss-in. Also, I feel like I should post this here as a reference to other Red Sox prospects: http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2016?list=bos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) Well, we've already established that you're nuts Fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 01:04 PM) I feel like it's one more prospect short. Or another prospect and one of their catchers as a toss-in. Also, I feel like I should post this here as a reference to other Red Sox prospects: http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2016?list=bos Glad to hear Cameron thinks it is short. Give me Rodriguez and Vazquez in addition and I'd probably do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) Glad to hear Cameron thinks it is short. Give me Rodriguez and Vazquez in addition and I'd probably do it. Yeah. With that deal, you'd fill 3 holes at the MLB level: one created by dealing Sale, catcher spot, and an MLB-ready OF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 12:52 PM) I had thought it even before recent news, but I do believe Frazier gets a long extension. I wouldn't be surprised, and I'd be okay with it depending on money. If the Sox are going to rebuild, they do have the pieces that could bring back young major league talent. So, if done right, they could be competitive as early as 2018...mind you I said if done right. Having Frazier as a leader for the young guys would be beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) Yeah. With that deal, you'd fill 3 holes at the MLB level: one created by dealing Sale, catcher spot, and an MLB-ready OF. Yah, except I don't have confidence that Vazquez is any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 01:15 PM) Yah, except I don't have confidence that Vazquez is any good. I don't think he is either. My preference is Swihart in all honesty and he might be the Sox preference as well. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) I don't think he is either. My preference is Swihart in all honesty and he might be the Sox preference as well. Who knows. Based on scouting reports I saw last year, this is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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