steveno89 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Dec 26, 2016 -> 03:44 PM) Agreed! Perhaps the most encouraging White Sox development this offseason has been the maturation of Rick Hahn as GM. Hahn is clearly one intelligent dude, but it seems he's learning to use his brains and resources and THEN let the market come to him. Don't chase. Don't telegraph. Don't be KW. His maturation is analogous to a toolsy, but undisciplined hitter who finally learns to swing mostly at pitches where he can do damage. Robertson is a decent closer, who sometimes flashes brilliant, but when he's on he has value as a decent closer and a strong set-up guy. Jones has the velo everybody looks for, and when HE is on, he's got that knee-buckling slider too. Jones also has the Eaton-Quintana advantage (solid + player whose value slots up because of a great contract). Neither are Chapman or Miller, but both can have strong value at the trade deadline. I have little doubt that various GMs - including Dombrowski and Rizzo -- haven't tried to deal for these guys and price them as throw-ins. They are anything but. I'm happy to see Hahn knows the value of his assets, prices them accordingly, and is showing he'll wheel and deal, but at a reasonable price. (And BTW ... spare me the national press that Hahn fleeced Rizzo, or even Dombrowski. In both cases, he demanded very strong prospects for established valuable big leaguers. He found trade partners who were willing to pay a reasonable price, either because of team circumstances or otherwise. Just because many other GMs have begun serious prospect "over-huggers" does not mean GMs like Rizzo or Dombrowski are making horrible or poor deals. They're dipping into strength to purchase established strength. And that's the way it should be. Bravo Rick Hahn .. finally, and so far.) We did not "fleece" anyone, agreed. Both the Red Sox and Nationals were able to improve their mlb roster substantially without subtracting from the 2017 lineup. That always has to be considered a sensible move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 10:03 AM) We did not "fleece" anyone, agreed. Both the Red Sox and Nationals were able to improve their mlb roster substantially without subtracting from the 2017 lineup. That always has to be considered a sensible move. I love the term "fleece" for trades when absolutely no one has any idea what any of the prospects will do or even Sale/Eaton over the next few years. Granted, I understand that an analysis of a trade is boring when you say "check back in five years," but the reality is that, no one knows today who won the deal. "Sensible" is a good word to use because ya the move made sense for the Red Sox as a team in the win-now mindset. Edited December 28, 2016 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:10 AM) I love the term "fleece" for trades when absolutely no one has any idea what any of the prospects will do or even Sale/Eaton over the next few years. Granted, I understand that an analysis of a trade is boring when you say "check back in five years," but the reality is that, no one knows today who won the deal. "Sensible" is a good word to use because ya the move made sense for the Red Sox as a team in the win-now mindset. At the same time, I'm not sure I agree with only looking at the end result when evaluating trades. If the Angels GM got possessed by a demon tomorrow and traded Trout to the White Sox for Courtney Hawkins, and then Trout suffers a career-ending injury in spring training while Hawkins becomes an MVP candidate with the Angels, that was still a horrendous trade for the Angels. And if a trade makes a lot of sense at the time but doesn't work out, it doesn't mean it was a bad trade. This is not to say I think we fleeced either team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I was just going through the entire league in my head and was thinking how I can't think of a good fit for Robertson outside of Nats or Mets. Is there another suitor you all can think of? Blue jays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:12 PM) I was just going through the entire league in my head and was thinking how I can't think of a good fit for Robertson outside of Nats or Mets. Is there another suitor you all can think of? Blue jays? Rockies? If they are thinking about contending this year, they could use another back of the bullpen arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I was just going through the entire league in my head and was thinking how I can't think of a good fit for Robertson outside of Nats or Mets. Is there another suitor you all can think of? Blue jays? Angels, Rockies, Cardinals and maybe the Rangers could all use him I guess. The problem with Robertson is he is quite bad so he's just a new name to other teams with bad closers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Angels I just assumed could not pay but hell, they could make a trade work. Their farm was so reminiscent of ours 4-5 years ago where their top 5 are just their most recent draft picks. But Taylor ward is interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:27 PM) Angels I just assumed could not pay but hell, they could make a trade work. Their farm was so reminiscent of ours 4-5 years ago where their top 5 are just their most recent draft picks. But Taylor ward is interesting. Man that Angels farm system is in bad shape. That is one team that should seriously consider a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:35 PM) Man that Angels farm system is in bad shape. That is one team that should seriously consider a rebuild. They have 0 parts to move outside of Trout. Calhoun, maybe. Richards, coming off TJ. Simmons, how much are teams gonna pay for defense like they did? They don't have much of a team at all. Trout is keeping them relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Angels I just assumed could not pay but hell, they could make a trade work. Their farm was so reminiscent of ours 4-5 years ago where their top 5 are just their most recent draft picks. But Taylor ward is interesting. I just dont think they are going to be willing to trade what little they have. I think Frazier and Robertson would both interest them but they have like 3 prospects with a pulse and cant afford to trade them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) They have 0 parts to move outside of Trout. Calhoun, maybe. Richards, coming off TJ. Simmons, how much are teams gonna pay for defense like they did? They don't have much of a team at all. Trout is keeping them relevant. That team is a mess right now. The Pujols contract will become a disaster as he continues to decline. No way they are able to move that unless they eat a huge chunk of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Man that Angels farm system is in bad shape. That is one team that should seriously consider a rebuild. It would have to be a 5 year gut rebuild to even have a chance of working and punting the prime of Trout's prime is criminal. They cant trade a player like him either. Their best bet is to try and find 1 or 2 starters from the minors and go hog wild the next two years in free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) It would have to be a 5 year gut rebuild to even have a chance of working and punting the prime of Trout's prime is criminal. They cant trade a player like him either. Their best bet is to try and find 1 or 2 starters from the minors and go hog wild the next two years in free agency. That could be a recipe for even further disaster, overpaying past their prime players. Trading Trout would be a tough pill to swallow, but it might be necessary for the good of the franchise. Not sure which team would have enough to trade for him though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Oof! That Angels farm is bad. They have a few prospects I'd consider trading Avi for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:58 PM) Oof! That Angels farm is bad. They have a few prospects I'd consider trading Avi for. What a horrible time to be an Angels fan outside of Trout That team's future is seriously in question. Right now they are on track for a rough next 5 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) That could be a recipe for even further disaster, overpaying past their prime players. Trading Trout would be a tough pill to swallow, but it might be necessary for the good of the franchise. Not sure which team would have enough to trade for him though? They pretty much have to trade Trout, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I don't really see any realistic Trout trade where they end up with better value than Trout is currently providing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:26 PM) I don't really see any realistic Trout trade where they end up with better value than Trout is currently providing though. I'm not saying they will trade him, but the Angels ship is sinking and land is nowhere in sight 5 more seasons of Albert Pujols will be brutal as he continues to decline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:26 PM) I don't really see any realistic Trout trade where they end up with better value than Trout is currently providing though. Yah, I suppose for now they can continue to try to scrap together a competitive team around him, but at some point they have to realized that they're never going to be very good over the next 4 years with him. Blowing away his prime like they are is just sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:38 PM) Yah, I suppose for now they can continue to try to scrap together a competitive team around him, but at some point they have to realized that they're never going to be very good over the next 4 years with him. Blowing away his prime like they are is just sad. The Angels had 74 wins in 2016, and 2017 is not looking any better That team won't compete against the Astros, Rangers or Mariners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:39 PM) The Angels had 74 wins in 2016, and 2017 is not looking any better That team won't compete against the Astros, Rangers or Mariners Totally agree. They're in a very, very, very bad spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Cant trade Trout. Cant even really entertain the thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 If Moreno turns the spigot back on the next two off seasons provide plenty to build a winner. I hope they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con te Giolito Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 If Moreno turns the spigot back on the next two off seasons provide plenty to build a winner. I hope they do. Yea if I were them I'd go for a soft reboot. Move what they can now for near-ready talent, try and clear money whenever and wherever possible. Trout will be playing his age 25 season this year so they still have a lot of prime left in him, they can afford to punt 1 year of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) Yea if I were them I'd go for a soft reboot. Move what they can now for near-ready talent, try and clear money whenever and wherever possible. Trout will be playing his age 25 season this year so they still have a lot of prime left in him, they can afford to punt 1 year of him. The problem is their farm is awful, like worst system in the mlb awful. Their pitching is ugly, and what tradeable pieces outside of Trout do they really have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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