White Sox looking to deal Robertson

[BlackSox13]

What a horrible time to be an Angels fan outside of Trout

 

That team's future is seriously in question. Right now they are on track for a rough next 5 years

Ouch, they are in bad shape. They have 120M in guaranteed salary for only 12 players next year. One of those players is Josh Hamilton whom they are paying 26M to play for the Rangers. That team is so backasswards right now. They won't have a choice but to try and spend on free agency to stay relevant in that division. Hamilton's 26M is off the books after '17 so look for them to go on a spending spree next winter. They really have no choice.

 

 

[Con te Giolito]

The problem is their farm is awful, like worst system in the mlb awful.

 

Their pitching is ugly, and what tradeable pieces outside of Trout do they really have?

They could get stuff for Calhoun and Shoemaker. Not much but they could maybe move the farm from "distant last" to "maybe not the worst anymore?" territory.

[witesoxfan]

Actually, the Angels are projected to win 85 games as of right now, and the offseason isn't over. A lot can change with injuries, of course, but having a guy like Mike Trout can take a very mediocre team and make them good.

[OmarComing25]

The problem is their farm is awful, like worst system in the mlb awful.

 

Their pitching is ugly, and what tradeable pieces outside of Trout do they really have?

Fangraphs actually has them currently projected as 5th in the AL just behind the Yankees. Their bullpen is nothing special but I think their rotation will actually be OK if they don't get hit too hard with the injury bug again. I think they'll be better than many think this year, a Wildcard isn't out of the question if a couple things go right, and they'll have money to spend in the next two offseasons. I don't think blowing it up is the right move. I don't really see getting a big boatload of prospects for Trout as improving their situation. I highly doubt their combined value would surpass Trout's unless they got really lucky.

[bighurt574]

Depends what they can get, but I'm not sure trading Trout is going to magically rejuvenate the franchise. We at least had 3 elite pieces to move.

 

They're a long way from contending either way. They may be better off just holding him to give the fans something to show up for.

 

I assume any package would require a combo of young MLB talent plus prospects. You could certainly envision a team like the Cubs putting together some interesting proposals.

[steveno89]

Depends what they can get, but I'm not sure trading Trout is going to magically rejuvenate the franchise. We at least had 3 elite pieces to move.

 

They're a long way from contending either way. They may be better off just holding him to give the fans something to show up for.

 

I assume any package would require a combo of young MLB talent plus prospects. You could certainly envision a team like the Cubs putting together some interesting proposals.

 

Cubs do not have the elite pitching prospects required

 

Frankly, I don't know if any team has the prospects and young mlb talent to get a Trout deal completed

 

Trout is worth (roughly) $225.00 million in surplus value (likely more), which equates to an untradeable asset. No team can possibly afford to offer up anywhere near that level of value back...except maybe the White Sox with a package of:

 

Quintana + Moncada + Giolito + one more quality prospect (Lopez/Collins/Kopech esque)

 

The risk Trout gets injured is just too high to offer up what it would take

 

 

[OmarComing25]

Are they really that far from contending either way? Two years ago they missed the playoffs by one game. And I'm not so sure the AL is going to be as strong this year (which worries me about our chances at the #1 pick). The Rangers are going to regress hard (they played like a .500 team that got extraordinarily lucky this year and I'm not really that impressed with their current roster), and while Boston, Cleveland and Houston look like clear division favorites Texas/Seattle/Detroit/KC/Baltimore/Toronto/NYY are roughly .500ish teams and I'd put the Angels about on that level as well. Even this season their run differential was just -10, and they were hit hard by injuries.

Edited December 28, 2016 by OmarComing25

[steveno89]

Are they really that far from contending either way? Two years ago they missed the playoffs by one game. And I'm not so sure the AL is going to be as strong this year (which worries me about our chances at the #1 pick). The Rangers are going to regress hard (they played like a .500 team that got extraordinarily lucky this year and I'm not really that impressed with their current roster), and while Boston, Cleveland and Houston look like clear division favorites Texas/Seattle/Detroit/KC/Baltimore/Toronto/NYY are roughly .500ish teams and I'd put the Angels about on that level as well. Even last year their run differential was just -10, and they were hit hard by injuries.

 

Being roughly .500, with an awful farm system is not a good place to be. See "White Sox last decade" (minus Trout)

 

Their rotation is not playoff worthy, neither is their bullpen. Zero reinforcements coming from the farm system either. I do not see a path to contending.

Edited December 28, 2016 by steveno89

[witesoxfan]

Being roughly .500, with an awful farm system is not a good place to be. See "White Sox last decade" (minus Trout)

 

It's not a bad place to be either, and they have more resources to bring in supplemental players.

[OmarComing25]

Being roughly .500, with an awful farm system is not a good place to be. See "White Sox last decade" (minus Trout)

But that also describes Detroit, KC, Baltimore and Seattle. And Toronto and Texas are only in slightly better positions.

Edited December 28, 2016 by OmarComing25

[steveno89]

It's not a bad place to be either, and they have more resources to bring in supplemental players.

 

Pujols is not getting any younger, and is still under contract for years

 

Richards has not been healthy, the bullpen is a mess, the rotation is a mess, and the existing core of position players outside of Trout is not all that great

[steveno89]

But that also describes Detroit, KC, Baltimore and Seattle. And Toronto and Texas are only in slightly better positions.

 

I see each of those teams in declinem likely forcing a rebuild within the next few seasons

[southsider2k5]

I see each of those teams in declinem likely forcing a rebuild within the next few seasons

 

Detroit is in a world of hurt in the near future.

[OmarComing25]

I see each of those teams in declinem likely forcing a rebuild within the next few seasons

Right, and I'm saying all of them are roughly on the Angels' level right now, and the Angels will have the money to add in the next two offseasons. A playoff spot is going to come from one or more teams of that group, and I could easily see it being the Angels. They're not in a great position, but it's not nearly bad enough that they should punt on one of the best players of all time for a handful of prospects.

Edited December 28, 2016 by OmarComing25

[bmags]

Fangraphs actually has them currently projected as 5th in the AL just behind the Yankees. Their bullpen is nothing special but I think their rotation will actually be OK if they don't get hit too hard with the injury bug again. I think they'll be better than many think this year, a Wildcard isn't out of the question if a couple things go right, and they'll have money to spend in the next two offseasons. I don't think blowing it up is the right move. I don't really see getting a big boatload of prospects for Trout as improving their situation. I highly doubt their combined value would surpass Trout's unless they got really lucky.

 

I agree. And next year the FA class will let them compete again. MiGo could be a good target for them this year as depth.

[Con te Giolito]

They are pretty weak at 3rd and 1st I'm surprised we haven't seen them connected to Frazier. Frazier may not be the best 3b in the world but goddamnit he's a lot better than Luis Valbuena and Trevor Pluoffe.

[witesoxfan]

Pujols is not getting any younger, and is still under contract for years

 

Richards has not been healthy, the bullpen is a mess, the rotation is a mess, and the existing core of position players outside of Trout is not all that great

 

Neither the bullpen nor the rotation are a mess at all. There is no surefire stud, but the Angels have a set rotation with Alex Meyer acting as a bullpen piece or 6th starter. They have some decent arms in the pen, though no one that really jumps out either way. They have probably an average lineup or so, but Trout takes it to the next level.

 

Without Trout, I'd probably say they are a 75-79 win team, barring significant injuries. You add Trout to that and they are an 83-87 win team. The players around Trout really do not have to be all that great, because Trout is all that great.

[Bob Sacamano]

Rockies expressing interest in Holland. I wish this mofo would come off the market already.

[steveno89]

Neither the bullpen nor the rotation are a mess at all. There is no surefire stud, but the Angels have a set rotation with Alex Meyer acting as a bullpen piece or 6th starter. They have some decent arms in the pen, though no one that really jumps out either way. They have probably an average lineup or so, but Trout takes it to the next level.

 

Without Trout, I'd probably say they are a 75-79 win team, barring significant injuries. You add Trout to that and they are an 83-87 win team. The players around Trout really do not have to be all that great, because Trout is all that great.

 

4.60 ERA for the starting rotation

 

3.77 for relivers

 

21st in the mlb overall

 

middle of the pack offense

 

Zero prospect depth. Things are likely going to get worse before they get better though

[OmarComing25]

4.60 ERA for the starting rotation

 

3.77 for relivers

 

21st in the mlb overall

 

middle of the pack offense

 

Zero prospect depth. Things are likely going to get worse before they get better though

Rotation is projected for a 3.85 ERA in 2017, and going through the projections by pitcher I don't really find any I disagree with. Richards/Shoemaker/Skaggs/Nolasco/Chavez/Meyer isn't a great rotation, but it's far from a mess.

[witesoxfan]

4.60 ERA for the starting rotation

 

3.77 for relivers

 

21st in the mlb overall

 

middle of the pack offense

 

Zero prospect depth. Things are likely going to get worse before they get better though

 

The White Sox had a team ERA of 4.12 last year, so they'll obviously be right around that again, right? No, because using last year's numbers to try and correlate anything with next year is logically incorrect.

 

They had Garrett Richards for 6 starts last year. He's a huge question mark, but he's a very good pitcher. Jered Weaver threw 178 innings with an ERA over 5.00 - he's gone. Chacin threw 117.1 innings with an ERA of 4.68 - he's gone. They gave 38 innings to Lincecum, who put up an ERA over 9. Using that against them this year when all 3 are gone is unfair.

 

If Richards goes down again, they'll be in trouble, but if they stay healthy, they'll be a solid team. They don't have a lot of depth, but there is no point in them blowing it up at this point. I'm guessing they'll be in the hunt pretty much all year unless injuries hit.