White Sox focused on Rebuild

[SoxAce]

Best thing about this news is this is the first official rumor for Sale. It should get other teams involved and up their offers(looking at you Boston). I still believe Moncada and Benintendi package is the deal they are really after.

 

Let's hope so. Tired of the half ass s***. If your gonna rebuild, do it right and get young players. (23 and under)

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Listening to a CSN podcast with Bob Nightengale. Chuck Garfein asked about the trade being done before, during or after the Winter Meetings and he said after. He also asked a percentage of the chances it happens and he said 75%.

 

 

https://audioboom.com/posts/5289197-ep-7-te...-for-chris-sale

Edited November 16, 2016 by SouthSideSale

[Boopa1219]

Please elaborate.

 

I do not like any of their position player prospects outside of Bellinger and they lack high-end arms outside of Alvarez, you could call De Leon a high end arm but I think that is a reach. With that being said, I can take Bellinger (who I just started feverishly researching) and Alvarez but that is nowhere near enough for Sale.

 

They're not going to give up Seager, so they would need to get a third team involved.

[iamshack]

I do not like any of their position player prospects outside of Bellinger and they lack high-end arms outside of Alvarez, you could call De Leon a high end arm but I think that is a reach. With that being said, I can take Bellinger (who I just started feverishly researching) and Alvarez but that is nowhere near enough for Sale.

 

They're not going to give up Seager, so they would need to get a third team involved.

Urias?

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I may be alone but I love De Leon as a prospect. Always have.

[Knackattack]

You won't get Urias and DeLeon, and you have to get Urias.

I see Sale and Frazier for Urias, Bellinger, Barnes, Lux and Verdugo, which is a huge haul.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Dodgers have the prospects to get it done. Whether you like their prospects or not is another thing but they can get it done as well as anyone with their pieces alone.

I honestly think they match up well with us. I posted this earlier, but I still think a Sale & Frazier for DeLeon, Bellinger, Verdugo, Calhoun, Alvarez, Barnes, & Sheffield deal would be a haul for us and something Friedman might do.

 

Bellinger, Verdugo, Calhoun, & Barnes could all be up by opening day 2018 (if not sooner) and potentially fill four holes in our everyday lineup. DeLeon immediately fills Sale's spot in the rotation. Without trading any other pieces, we've filled five spots on our 2018 roster and would be able to give them a full year of development before the big 2018/2019 free agent period.

 

Entering the 2019 offseason, this could be your roster:

 

1B: Bellinger

2B: Calhoun (some DH)

SS: Anderson

3B: ?

LF: Verdugo

CF: ?

RF: Eaton

DH: Collins (some C)

C: Barnes (some 2B)

 

#1: Quintana

#2: Rodon

#3: DeLeon

#4: Fulmer

#5: ?

 

CL: Jones

SU: Burdi

SU: Stephens

 

Key prospects that might be ready by then or at most a year out would include pitchers Adams, Hansen, Alvarez, & Sheffield along with hitters like Michalczewki, Fisher, & Call. These guys would give us some depth and allow us to make some trades to fill holes. We'd also have a ton of financial flexibility and could be serious players in what should an incredible free agent class. Multiple superstars will be available at both 3B & CF.

 

Obviously not all these guys are going to work out, although I strongly believe that by targeting near-ready major league pieces, we greatly reduce that bust factor significantly. Regardless, I think it shows how a Dodgers trade without Urias could still be a huge win for us.

[ChiSox1917]

I honestly think they match up well with us. I posted this earlier, but I still think a Sale & Frazier for DeLeon, Bellinger, Verdugo, Calhoun, Alvarez, Barnes, & Sheffield deal would be a haul for us and something Friedman might do.

 

I just don't get Barnes. The guy's going to be 27 before opening day this year. I don't see how he fits into a rebuilding plan.

[hi8is]

Maybe none of these teams won't overpay for chris sale.

Which would be to say that Sale is getting traded to multiple teams, somehow.

[Boopa1219]

Urias?

 

That's a given and so is Lux but I need a given bat that I can plug into my lineup for the next 10-12 years

[Dunt]

I know it's early and the market hasn't fully developed yet, but this rhetoric that none of these teams want to separate from their top prospects give me serious anxiety. The Sox don't need to take 50 cents on the dollar for these guys, but they better have a contingency plan in place if they dont get what they are looking for. Doing nothing again would be a colossal disaster for this franchise. I really, really hope they have a date in mind that they need to choose a direction.

[Y2Jimmy0]

That's a given and so is Lux but I need a given bat that I can plug into my lineup for the next 10-12 years

 

 

I think Bellinger and Verdugo are those guys. If you get those 2 and Urias, that's a pretty good base to a deal. I wouldn't be surprised if the White Sox want Joc Pederson which would be fine with me.

[southsider2k5]

Maybe none of these teams won't overpay for chris sale.

 

[southsider2k5]

That's a given and so is Lux but I need a given bat that I can plug into my lineup for the next 10-12 years

 

Bats, plural. We need to pull at least three good solid starting players from a Chris Sale deal, otherwise it is a complete failure.

[southsider2k5]

Not necessarily. If, say, two of them turn into all-stars, I'd say we did just fine.

 

Unless one of them is a star on the level of Sale, it is a failure. The whole idea is to fill a lot of holes. If you have a big step down in quality from an ace pitcher, and only fill two holes, it is a bust.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Unless one of them is a star on the level of Sale, it is a failure. The whole idea is to fill a lot of holes. If you have a big step down in quality from an ace pitcher, and only fill two holes, it is a bust.

Hypothetically, would you be happy with a Sale for Moncada and Benintendi deal? The Sox would only get 2 guys back for Sale but both have superstar potential.

[southsider2k5]

Hypothetically, would you be happy with a Sale for Moncada and Benintendi deal? The Sox would only get 2 guys back for Sale but both have superstar potential.

 

How far ahead does that actually get us? We should very clearly be shooting way higher than two starters. We have had a group of great stars and relative crap otherwise, and that has got us no where. Young stars and other crap doesn't advance this franchise at all.

[Dick Allen]

The cost to replace Sale and/or Q and/or Eaton and/or Abreu, is a lot more than they currently are being paid, so RH is going to have to be GM of the year to get packages for all that turns the team entirely around in 2 or 3 years after giving up it's best players.

 

Many of the names mentioned will be really good players. Many of the names mentioned will be forgotten in a year or 2. They cannot miss. 2011 the Padres were ranked with the best farm system. Liriano who the White Sox just claimed on waivers was their top prospect. Rizzo was ranked 6th. BP had them ranked incorrectly, but the White Sox have to get it right, because there will be a package that gets it right, and it may not look as good currently as one that looks great now, but won't in 3 years. Unfortunately, when you are trading Chris Sale at this point, looking back and saying it made sense at the time won't cut it. You have to look back on it and say you made a really good deal.

[Dick Allen]

Our problem isn't surplus value. We have tons of it now in Sale, Q, Eaton, and Jones. Our problem is actual production at multiple positions. This is what the primary goal of trade Chris Sale et, al is.

Yes. The top 5 or 6 of the White Sox roster matches up pretty well with just about every team.

[iamshack]

Yes. The top 5 or 6 of the White Sox roster matches up pretty well with just about every team.

Fair enough...so now we trade the top 5 or 6 and the goal is to change that to "the top 9-10 of the White Sox roster matches up pretty well with just about every team."

 

Then you STILL need to fill out the rest of the roster through intelligent signings, the draft, other trades occurring over the next few years.

 

If you guys think you are going to construct a full roster of quality mlb players based on these trades, and magically we're going to be competing next year, you've got another thing coming.

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't understand the "if we blow this deal, it screws the club for decade(s)." If he leaves in 3 years via free agency, we aren't screwed?

[iamshack]

The fact is, if you need an ace pitcher after all these acquisitions, it's going to cost a ton of money. If you still need an OF with Adam Eaton's skills and performance, it's going to cost a ton of money. I get having to trade some guys, but they cannot blow it, and an even trade really doesn't do much either does it?

 

To improve, the trades have to be won.

Dick, I fully appreciate what you're saying...but what is the alternative?

[Dick Allen]

Explain to me why those doors are closed to us?

 

This isn't an all-or-nothing thing here.

 

If the White Sox aren't devoting the vast majority of their revenues to the mlb payroll, why can't they invest more in international free agency?

If the White Sox have a low mlb payroll, why can they not sign good players to supplement their roster?

 

It is not a requirement that you spend SEVERAL HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in order to make this work. That is pure bulls***. The f***ing Royals just won the World Series.

The Royals have also had 8 top 8 draft picks since 2005, and 7 in the top 5. That's being really bad a long time.

[Chisoxfn]

Either spending a lot of money or trading a couple of these guys, but you cannot miss. It has to be an outstanding trade or you will be bad for a long time. It isn't like they have guys at the lower levels who just need a couple of years until they are stars.

I don't think the trade has to be outstanding. Quite frankly, we've already been bad for a long time. I think if the trade is even fair / good, it could work out in our best interest, because we could have a more complete team with more people contributing on a nightly basis. It is unlikely we will get back any player who will be as good as Chris Sale. The people who say Urias will be better is pure BS. Maybe, sure, but Christopher Sale has been the second best pitcher in baseball over the past five years...so the odds of us getting a guy who is better then that are slim to none. That said, if we can get multiple contributors, ideally one above average and another well above average, then I think that would be a good trade and if we could have a few of those happen, plus bring in our own talent from (hopefully improved drafts / development), then we can be in a much better position. I'd rather be a good team, looking to acquire a star to push us over the top then be in the position where we are in where we need all kinds of help.

 

I see no way to contend without breaking this down a bit. I agree to succeed, we will have to win these trades, but I don't know the alternative. We have tried to half ass it for a while and it has done nothing.

[Chisoxfn]

We need to honestly do a full-scale rebuild, and ultimately what needs to happen is we need to come out of it with a lot of young, talented depth.

 

If you look at it trade by trade, you are going to win a few, lose a few, maybe lose one or two badly, maybe win a few badly, but in the end, you need to come out of this with a roster that allows you to put a reasonably talented product on the field for far less than what you are paying now.

 

To bother getting much more specific about it now is just a wasted effort, imho.

I agree with you and I also agree with you that we then need to leverage some free agent money into shorter term deals that we can use to provide short term veteran presence which can be spun at the deadline to continue to build up talent pool.