Interesting 2016 stats

[Ducksnort]

http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/11/16/136...s-handbook-2017

 

Interesting 2016 stats in this article...

 

Among the most notable in my opinion:

 

Robin Ventura led the league by using relievers on consecutive days 128 times, and nobody in the American League was close. He also led the league in slow hooks for the fourth consecutive year and long outings for a second.

 

Alex Avila’s walks were the least valuable in the league, resulting in only .231 runs per walk.

 

*Jose Abreu hit 556 foul balls, second to only Brandon Belt (580) and well above the totals from his first two years (480 and 460).

 

 

[Dick Allen]

http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/11/16/136...s-handbook-2017

 

Interesting 2016 stats in this article...

 

Among the most notable in my opinion:

 

Robin Ventura led the league by using relievers on consecutive days 128 times, and nobody in the American League was close. He also led the league in slow hooks for the fourth consecutive year and long outings for a second.

 

Alex Avila’s walks were the least valuable in the league, resulting in only .231 runs per walk.

 

*Jose Abreu hit 556 foul balls, second to only Brandon Belt (580) and well above the totals from his first two years (480 and 460).

I saw this. Robin used his starters too much and his relievers too much.

[SCCWS]

I saw this. Robin used his starters too much and his relievers too much.

 

4th outfielder should be able to pitch relief as well.........................

 

[southsider2k5]

http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/11/16/136...s-handbook-2017

 

Interesting 2016 stats in this article...

 

Among the most notable in my opinion:

 

Robin Ventura led the league by using relievers on consecutive days 128 times, and nobody in the American League was close. He also led the league in slow hooks for the fourth consecutive year and long outings for a second.

 

Alex Avila's walks were the least valuable in the league, resulting in only .231 runs per walk.

 

*Jose Abreu hit 556 foul balls, second to only Brandon Belt (580) and well above the totals from his first two years (480 and 460).

 

I had previously suspected that the slumps by Jones and Robertson had a lot to do with clustered usage when they were used too many times in too short a period of time. This pretty well reinforces it.

 

I will say it here first. David Robertson would make a great buy low candidate for a team that realizes he is not a workhorse closer.

[Bob Sacamano]

4th outfielder should be able to pitch relief as well.........................

 

You joke now, but I'm pretty sure the Padres are making Bethancourt a third catcher/5th OF/pinch hitter/close to 100 mph throwing reliever lol the ultimate utility player. Not a bad 25th or 26th man if rosters expand in new CBA.

Edited November 17, 2016 by soxfan2014

[Whisox05]

I saw this. Robin used his starters too much and his relievers too much.

 

Honestly you want your starters to go in as long as possible in games. Sox starters put the 4th most innings pitched in baseball in 2016. As for the relievers he had pitched some of them alot on back to back days but overall sox had the second fewest innings for relievers in all of baseball.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I had previously suspected that the slumps by Jones and Robertson had a lot to do with clustered usage when they were used too many times in too short a period of time. This pretty well reinforces it.

 

I will say it here first. David Robertson would make a great buy low candidate for a team that realizes he is not a workhorse closer.

 

 

Thing is, Robertson had an era below 2 when pitching on 0 days rest, and an era below 1 when pitching on 1.....Things started getting bad when he had over 3 days rest.

 

He gave up 13 runs in 12 innings of work when he pitched on 4 or more days of rest. He gave up just 3 runs in 23.2 innings pitched with no rest. 4 runs in 33.2 if you add in the 1 run he allowed in 11 innings with 1 day of rest.

 

These numbers lead me to believe that he IS a workhorse closer.

 

I suppose you could argue that it was these innings that lead to his problems when pitching on heavy rest.

 

 

[Harry Chappas]

Honestly you want your starters to go in as long as possible in games. Sox starters put the 4th most innings pitched in baseball in 2016. As for the relievers he had pitched some of them alot on back to back days but overall sox had the second fewest innings for relievers in all of baseball.

 

The offense was terrible so every game was a one run game thus the high leverage guys were used more consistently. Couple with the fact the injuries, there was not much to work with out there other than Jones and Robertson.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Thing is, Robertson had an era below 2 when pitching on 0 days rest, and an era below 1 when pitching on 1.....Things started getting bad when he had over 3 days rest.

 

He gave up 13 runs in 12 innings of work when he pitched on 4 or more days of rest. He gave up just 3 runs in 23.2 innings pitched with no rest. 4 runs in 33.2 if you add in the 1 run he allowed in 11 innings with 1 day of rest.

 

These numbers lead me to believe that he IS a workhorse closer.

 

I suppose you could argue that it was these innings that lead to his problems when pitching on heavy rest.

Yes. He got lit up 4 times in 2016. The rest of the time, despite his command issues, his ERA was a little bit over 1.00.

 

When he has his command, he makes good hitters look like fans from the stands grabbing a bat.

 

Maybe his glute problem or knee issue contributed to it, or maybe just getting away for a few months and rebooting will do the job, but he really hasn't lost much. He never did rely on heavy gas.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Thing is, Robertson had an era below 2 when pitching on 0 days rest, and an era below 1 when pitching on 1.....Things started getting bad when he had over 3 days rest.

 

He gave up 13 runs in 12 innings of work when he pitched on 4 or more days of rest. He gave up just 3 runs in 23.2 innings pitched with no rest. 4 runs in 33.2 if you add in the 1 run he allowed in 11 innings with 1 day of rest.

 

These numbers lead me to believe that he IS a workhorse closer.

 

I suppose you could argue that it was these innings that lead to his problems when pitching on heavy rest.

I wonder if Hahn uses these kind of facts when trying to trade him.

[Dick Allen]

The offense was terrible so every game was a one run game thus the high leverage guys were used more consistently. Couple with the fact the injuries, there was not much to work with out there other than Jones and Robertson.

This is true too. If they threw the other guys out there in "high leverage" situations, that would have been a problem too. A thin bullpen and a lot of close games means guys will pitch on multiple days.

 

As for the starters, I remember when Ozzie used to be praised for leaving starters in longer.

[Bob Sacamano]

Danks and Latos throwing back to back days for the first month and a half or so with barely any team days off and no long relievers kinda hurts the bullpen overall as well. And Gonzalez wasn't really going deep into games at first.

Edited November 17, 2016 by soxfan2014

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

*Brett Lawrie finished as the White Sox’ best baserunner with 12 bases gained, 11 of them baserunning (as opposed to stealing). The team as a whole finished -28, the sixth-worst total in baseball.

 

also from the SSS article

 

*The White Sox resumed shifting after a strange drop-off last season that might have contributed to the firing of Mark Parent. They doubled the amount of shifting (389 to 781), resulting in a surge in runs saved due to shifting (five to 17).

 

*Avisail Garcia finished with the fourth-highest average with runners in scoring position. He also finished with the slowest time to second base on stolen-base attempts (3.90), tied with Alexei Ramirez.

 

*Even with Eaton, the Sox were still below-average as a team in terms of Defensive Runs Saved. Eaton saved 25 runs in right, but those gains were erased in center field (-22) and left (-7). Shortstop (3) and pitcher (2) were the only other positions on the diamond that ended up in the plus column.

[Balta1701]

Yes. He got lit up 4 times in 2016. The rest of the time, despite his command issues, his ERA was a little bit over 1.00.

 

When he has his command, he makes good hitters look like fans from the stands grabbing a bat.

 

Maybe his glute problem or knee issue contributed to it, or maybe just getting away for a few months and rebooting will do the job, but he really hasn't lost much. He never did rely on heavy gas.

You do realize that when you pitch 60 innings, getting lit up 4 times is like a starter getting lit up every 2nd or 3rd start right? That's really not good?

[lasttriptotulsa]

You do realize that when you pitch 60 innings, getting lit up 4 times is like a starter getting lit up every 2nd or 3rd start right? That's really not good?

 

Total false equivalence.

Edited November 17, 2016 by lasttriptotulsa

[Balta1701]

Total false equivalence.

Think of how people play that game with starters. "If you take out John Danks's 4 worst starts his ERA is under 3". It's not really a valid game in that case either, but when you're only pitching 60 innings, getting blown up in 4 of them isn't something you get to ignore.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I wonder if Hahn uses these kind of facts when trying to trade him.

Let's also amend this to ask if Hahn uses the Bill James Handbook .

[Dick Allen]

You do realize that when you pitch 60 innings, getting lit up 4 times is like a starter getting lit up every 2nd or 3rd start right? That's really not good?

He pitched in 62 games and had 4 bad ones. What you just wrote makes zero sense. Try again.

 

He pitched in over 61 innings., In 4 outings he gave up 17 runs in in 2 2/3 innings. He gave up 7 runs in the other 59 1/3. Not quite getting lit up as a starter every 2nd or 3rd start.

[Balta1701]

He pitched in 62 games and had 4 bad ones. What you just wrote makes zero sense. Try again.

 

He pitched in over 61 innings., In 4 outings he gave up 17 runs in in 2 2/3 innings. He gave up 7 runs in the other 59 1/3. Not quite getting lit up as a starter every 2nd or 3rd start.

What you don't realize is you just made a convincing case that he was worse than I thought. You've now also given me reason to think that a slight dropoff in those other innings could leave him dropping from acceptable to terrible.

[LittleHurt05]

David Robertson did not have a good 2016 season and was a big reason the White Sox fell apart in the final 2/3 of the season. I have one argument and it's irrefutable:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/KC...201605280.shtml

[Dick Allen]

What you don't realize is you just made a convincing case that he was worse than I thought. You've now also given me reason to think that a slight dropoff in those other innings could leave him dropping from acceptable to terrible.

It is amazing what lengths you will go to just to not admit your exaggerations are just wrong.

[southsider2k5]

Thing is, Robertson had an era below 2 when pitching on 0 days rest, and an era below 1 when pitching on 1.....Things started getting bad when he had over 3 days rest.

 

He gave up 13 runs in 12 innings of work when he pitched on 4 or more days of rest. He gave up just 3 runs in 23.2 innings pitched with no rest. 4 runs in 33.2 if you add in the 1 run he allowed in 11 innings with 1 day of rest.

 

These numbers lead me to believe that he IS a workhorse closer.

 

I suppose you could argue that it was these innings that lead to his problems when pitching on heavy rest.

 

I went back and looked, and found a few interesting things.

 

#1, his OPS against while pitching in the 9th was .658. In the 8th it was 1.455.

 

#2, His July blow up correlated to his outings immediately after a leg injury. He missed 10 days and then got blown up when he got back. Even after that he pitched 4 times in 6 days, 5 times in 8 days, and 7 times in 12 days. During that stretch he gave up 7 ER. Not necessarily just a back to back, but in a heavy usage in terms of clusters of appearances he seemed to break down.

 

#3 he was awful in non-closing roles, putting up a .641 in save situations and .519 in high leverage situations. Medium leverage was .933, low was .847. 6 of the 24 runs he gave up last year were in blow out situations where he was "getting work", in just a 5 game span.

[OmarComing25]

What you don't realize is you just made a convincing case that he was worse than I thought. You've now also given me reason to think that a slight dropoff in those other innings could leave him dropping from acceptable to terrible.

I agree with you that you can't just throw out 4 blowups, but this line of thinking is just nonsense.