The Rebuilt White Sox

[rowand's rowdies]

We're at a pretty low point in White Sox history. We've had 11 seasons since we won the World Series. The Cubs just won it all.

 

Our team looks to be going into a partial or full rebuild, which a lot of fans want to see.

 

We have a unique situation because of the trade chips we have this off-season. We should also have some guys who can rebuild their value and be traded in season as well for potentially solid prospects/younger players. We have enough quality trade chips to really bring in a whole new team if we choose. 4 or 5 of our players could bring back 15-20 (no joke) prospects, many of which would be Top 10 prospects from other teams.

 

If we traded Sale, Q, Shields, Abreu, Eaton, Jones & Frazier this off-season and traded Robertson & Melky during the season we could potentially net 20-30 new prospects/young players from those 9 players alone. This is unlikely to happen but could actually realistically happen.

 

But who will play if we trade everyone you wisely ask? Ask the Phillies, Brewers, Reds, or 4-5 other NL teams last year. They found a way to play with no name players for 162 miserable games. It happens now.

 

Before we hand the mic over to Jerry Kenny & Rick to hear their 3 man karaoke version of Don't Stop Believing with this roster, I would like to hear about your personal perspectives on what TYPE of team we should try to build if we go into a rebuild.

 

What STYLE of baseball do you believe is the way to go in 2017 & beyond?

 

If you personally believe we are just some fixes short of being competitive, what BRAND of players do we need to bring in and which current players need to go?

 

I think this thread will allow us to dig deep and think about how we view the game itself and how we want to see baseball played by our White Sox.

 

It's better than another Chris Sale thread, no?

 

Obviously I'd like to see this team's offense and defense built in the likeness of this organization's minor league outfield and baserunning instructor.

Starting pitching wise we should build around Q & Rodon.

I'm really becoming a believer in bullpens. I wouldn't invest $100 million in a Chapman or Jansen, but loading up on high ceiling power arms who can be groomed for 1-3 innings instead of pushing them to become starters.

 

Now for brighter baseball minds to chime in on their vision...

[The Beast]

We're at a pretty low point in White Sox history. We've had 11 seasons since we won the World Series. The Cubs just won it all.

 

Our team looks to be going into a partial or full rebuild, which a lot of fans want to see.

 

We have a unique situation because of the trade chips we have this off-season. We should also have some guys who can rebuild their value and be traded in season as well for potentially solid prospects/younger players. We have enough quality trade chips to really bring in a whole new team if we choose. 4 or 5 of our players could bring back 15-20 (no joke) prospects, many of which would be Top 10 prospects from other teams.

 

If we traded Sale, Q, Shields, Abreu, Eaton, Jones & Frazier this off-season and traded Robertson & Melky during the season we could potentially net 20-30 new prospects/young players from those 9 players alone. This is unlikely to happen but could actually realistically happen.

 

But who will play if we trade everyone you wisely ask? Ask the Phillies, Brewers, Reds, or 4-5 other NL teams last year. They found a way to play with no name players for 162 miserable games. It happens now.

 

Before we hand the mic over to Jerry Kenny & Rick to hear their 3 man karaoke version of Don't Stop Believing with this roster, I would like to hear about your personal perspectives on what TYPE of team we should try to build if we go into a rebuild.

 

What STYLE of baseball do you believe is the way to go in 2017 & beyond?

 

If you personally believe we are just some fixes short of being competitive, what BRAND of players do we need to bring in and which current players need to go?

 

I think this thread will allow us to dig deep and think about how we view the game itself and how we want to see baseball played by our White Sox.

 

It's better than another Chris Sale thread, no?

 

Obviously I'd like to see this team's offense and defense built in the likeness of this organization's minor league outfield and baserunning instructor.

Starting pitching wise we should build around Q & Rodon.

I'm really becoming a believer in bullpens. I wouldn't invest $100 million in a Chapman or Jansen, but loading up on high ceiling power arms who can be groomed for 1-3 innings instead of pushing them to become starters.

 

Now for brighter baseball minds to chime in on their vision...

So my understanding of all of the new stats is limited since I just don't get it (WAR is wins above replacement...the replacement being who they replaced, or is it the next best average ball player? Help me out here if you can.)

 

I am in for a full rebuild because if we stood pat and stayed with the same players, I don't see this team being a championship caliber team. I see more one run games lost and I see lots of strikeouts and blown leads from the bullpen (how can you be leading 7-1 against KC and be beating the tar out of Texas and lose a game?!?!?!) with the current roster. You can have a quality pitching staff and not hit worth a dick and lose 80+ games.

 

I want to see a team that plays good defense and has a pitching staff to keep them in the game. I want to see some clutch hits and POWER instead of the crap we have been seeing. Trade the pitching and get hitters because pitching can always be signed or dealt for when you're good and not mediocre. I want them to get as many prospects as possible and just see who swims and see who fails. Since they suck at developing position talent and drafting it, why not import from other organizations and get lucky with some pitching going forward?

 

Even if they suck initially because they are young they will be better to watch than a team who is mired in mediocrity. I want to see the 1999 White Sox, not the 2016 White Sox. Hopefully they can catch fire like the Northsiders and not end up like the Browns or 76ers.

[WBWSF]

I wish I could be as positive about a rebuilt White Sox team like some of the people who post here. I've seen enough lousy White Sox teams in my lifetime and I'm really worried about a 2017 rebuilt White Sox team. Trading Sale, Quintana. Eaton. Abreu, Calbrera. Frazier and Robertson might appeal to some people but it doesn't to me. I don't want to see a team that is a expansion team. The stadium will be a ghost town if that happens. Trading their best players for prospects will lead this franchise into its darkest years since the 1930s. I'm real curious to see how this off season plays out. I can't believe that JR (at his age) wants to see a White Sox team that will compared to the 1962 Mets. Last but not least, I'm still hoping the team signs Cespedes.

[Knackattack]

I just want to see a team that won't let it's pitchers down season after season

[jamesdiego]

The stadium is a ghost town already.

 

I want to see some hard nose team. A bunch of hungry dirt bags who give it all they have and love to play. I don't want to trade Eaton, he can be a leader and rub his pine tar on the youngin's. Give me a bunch of AJ types, with a little less of the asshole.

[hogan873]

I believe that if the Sox do it right, they can trade one of Sale or Quintana along with Robertson and Cabrera and still end up with a decent team that could compete as early as 2018. Again, if they do it right. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a lot of confidence in that happening.

 

Personally I think they need to hold on to Eaton. He's the type of guy you can build around, and as someone else mentioned, he could be the leader with an attitude of the newbies. Also, I'm not against the Sox extending Frazier. However, a move like that would make a proper rebuild a necessity. You only extend Frazier if you think you can compete in 2018.

 

All that being said, I'll be happy if they get the right packages back for whoever they trade. We'll have a good idea what they're plan is as the dominoes start to fall. If both Sale and Quintana go, I would expect a tear-down and build from the foundation situation, which would mean a few year process. Same goes if Eaton is traded along with one of Sale or Quintana.

 

 

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

I want to see a full rebuild. Not some half-assed rebuild with an attempt to win in 2018. I'd like to see everyone with the exception of Rodon and Anderson out. I do believe that with the talent the Sox currently have, I feel they could compete in 2019 if they rebuild the right way. The only way the Sox are going to win consistently for a 5-year stretch is develop from within.

[Carpe Diem]

I wish I could be as positive about a rebuilt White Sox team like some of the people who post here. I've seen enough lousy White Sox teams in my lifetime and I'm really worried about a 2017 rebuilt White Sox team. Trading Sale, Quintana. Eaton. Abreu, Calbrera. Frazier and Robertson might appeal to some people but it doesn't to me. I don't want to see a team that is a expansion team. The stadium will be a ghost town if that happens. Trading their best players for prospects will lead this franchise into its darkest years since the 1930s. I'm real curious to see how this off season plays out. I can't believe that JR (at his age) wants to see a White Sox team that will compared to the 1962 Mets. Last but not least, I'm still hoping the team signs Cespedes.

 

 

get the fck outta here plz

[COACH612]

It's still only November so let's just chill and see what the brains do in the off season. IMHO, the Sox need to at least add hitting above all else. How many games have they lost over the past few years because they suck on offense. Just ask Q. Now, if the Sox don't make a splash this winter, then they should at least hire cheerleaders.

 

That's the only way fans will come out because I will not spend my hard earned money on another crappy team.

[Hatchetman]

The ballpark is a home run park. The team should be designed to take advantage of that ideally.

[Boopa1219]

I'll go into more detail later but I want a team that is fundamentally sound, athletic and geared towards taking walks and wearing down pitch counts. And pitchers that can light it up.

[rockren]

Good question.

 

I think Hahn could go a number of ways, but I think the recent Royals model would be a good one to follow....and by recent I mean dating back to the Greinke trade to Milwaukee as being key.

 

Built around defense while having an elite bullpen is an excellent starting point.

 

This thread is valid because the Whitesox are in a position as to where they could choose to build whatever type of system they'd want should they choose to go full rebuild (which I feel they should do). Sale, Q, Abreu and Eaton could net the Sox 20 new prospects with potentially 12-15 of those being in the top 100 of all of baseball.

[rockren]

I believe that if the Sox do it right, they can trade one of Sale or Quintana along with Robertson and Cabrera and still end up with a decent team that could compete as early as 2018. Again, if they do it right. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a lot of confidence in that happening.

 

Personally I think they need to hold on to Eaton. He's the type of guy you can build around, and as someone else mentioned, he could be the leader with an attitude of the newbies. Also, I'm not against the Sox extending Frazier. However, a move like that would make a proper rebuild a necessity. You only extend Frazier if you think you can compete in 2018.

 

All that being said, I'll be happy if they get the right packages back for whoever they trade. We'll have a good idea what they're plan is as the dominoes start to fall. If both Sale and Quintana go, I would expect a tear-down and build from the foundation situation, which would mean a few year process. Same goes if Eaton is traded along with one of Sale or Quintana.

 

I agree I'd rather them hold onto Eaton, but if Toronto did center a package around Vlad Jr....you'd really have to consider flipping him. I'm really not crazy about building a team to compete in 2018- the Sox need to tear it down and build from the ground up with eyes closer to 2020. What the Astros and Brewers have done is what I wan the Sox to do.

[Carpe Diem]

Adam Eaton would get more in a trade than Chris Sale. Fact. 5 years $38 million for a 6 WAR player? And you are talking about Vlad Jr. wowowowowowow

 

These discussions are beyond silly, not to mention it is extremely frightening there are so many ignorant White Sox fans.

[Bob Sacamano]

I agree I'd rather them hold onto Eaton, but if Toronto did center a package around Vlad Jr....you'd really have to consider flipping him. I'm really not crazy about building a team to compete in 2018- the Sox need to tear it down and build from the ground up with eyes closer to 2020. What the Astros and Brewers have done is what I wan the Sox to do.

 

I'll be honest: I don't want a trade centered around Vlad Jr. Who knows how that guy's body will turn out behind the time he's MLB ready (if ever). I'd take him as a 4th piece at most. If Vlad Jr is the centerpiece of a deal, please walk away.

Edited November 19, 2016 by soxfan2014

[Chicago White Sox]

Adam Eaton would get more in a trade than Chris Sale. Fact. 5 years $38 million for a 6 WAR player? And you are talking about Vlad Jr. wowowowowowow

 

These discussions are beyond silly, not to mention it is extremely frightening there are so many ignorant White Sox fans.

I doubt many clubs would value him as a 6 WAR player. Still worth a ton, but I definitely think Sale is worth simply due to positional scarcity.

[iamshack]

So fairly simple question...if we do receive a guy like Bregman or Swanson that is a ss, what do we do with Anderson? Can he play CF?

[GreenSox]

Adam Eaton would get more in a trade than Chris Sale. Fact. 5 years $38 million for a 6 WAR player? And you are talking about Vlad Jr. wowowowowowow

 

These discussions are beyond silly, not to mention it is extremely frightening there are so many ignorant White Sox fans.

Eaton would have a 3-4 WAR value on the trade market. If he threw up that 6 WAR playing CF and did it for successive years then he would have closer to 6 WAR market value.

Edited November 19, 2016 by GreenSox

[Balta1701]

So fairly simple question...if we do receive a guy like Bregman or Swanson that is a ss, what do we do with Anderson? Can he play CF?

Wouldn't you just move Bregman to 3b? He's already being effective there for the 'Stros.

[iamshack]

Wouldn't you just move Bregman to 3b? He's already being effective there for the 'Stros.

Ahh. I see, shows you how much I have seen him.

 

Is 3rd his long-term projected landing place? Or is that just because he is on the Astros at the moment?

[Balta1701]

Ahh. I see, shows you how much I have seen him.

 

Is 3rd his long-term projected landing place? Or is that just because he is on the Astros at the moment?

He could definitely be a SS but Correa simply isn't moving. He was strong there in a short stint last year, seemed to adapt to the position well. Machado-like, for a comp in that sense.

 

Maybe Bregman is a stronger SS and you decide Anderson's the one to move, that one I can't say I've seen enough to answer as I haven't seen Bregman play any SS, but Bregman to 3b is at least one obvious option.

[Bob Sacamano]

So fairly simple question...if we do receive a guy like Bregman or Swanson that is a ss, what do we do with Anderson? Can he play CF?

 

Bregman can go to second and I guess Swanson forces Anderson to CF?

[Bob Sacamano]

He could definitely be a SS but Correa simply isn't moving. He was strong there in a short stint last year, seemed to adapt to the position well. Machado-like, for a comp in that sense.

 

Maybe Bregman is a stronger SS and you decide Anderson's the one to move, that one I can't say I've seen enough to answer as I haven't seen Bregman play any SS, but Bregman to 3b is at least one obvious option.

 

And Altuve is at Bregman's second best position so that forced him to third.

[iamshack]

Yeah, I mean I guess the point is that if a significant part of Bregman's value is tied to his ability at SS, then you either need to be willing to move Anderson off SS or else value Bregman as 2B or 3B.

 

You don't want to hurt his value or overpay for him if he doesn't represent that value to you.

[greg775]

I have a question: Why does everybody want to 'rebuild' when we already have a ton of good players? And a lot of awful players. But our front office could rectify the situation by adding a few in free agency.

 

Look, do you trust our scouts to trade for the right young guys to rebuild?? I don't. You keep this amazing starting rotation intact and do these things...

1B - Keep Abreu.

2B - trade Frazier, play Saladino if his back is OK.

SS - Keep Anderson

3B - Keep Frazier

Infield prognosis: Very good infield offensively and defensively.

LF - Trade Melky

CF - Keep Eaton

RF - Trade Avi.

C - Pay one in free agency.

DH - Pay one in free agency.

Outfield prognosis: Admittedly not great.

Bullpen: Sign some, trade for some.

Look, a total rebuild is insane with this pitching staff. Our scouts suck. I don't trust a total revamping of the roster. You are looking at a 40 win team if we trade Sale, Q, Robertson, Frazier, Abreu.