SOURCE: 2 horse race between Dodgers and Astros

[Princess Dye]

It's irrelevant, as he isn't claiming to be a source.

Not sure i get what you mean. He's saying he has a source he goes to routinely. Same thing.

[KMule2545]

And Theo didn't have anywhere close to the tradeable assets that Hahn and Williams have.

If the Sox trade Sale, Q, Eaton and Jones, that is as big a dispersal of highly productive players in their prime as I've ever seen. Plus they have some of the short term guys like Frazier, D Rob and Melky, which is about all that most reubilders have to sell

Now they can't flood the market with them and some are better traded in July.

It didn't take Theo 5 years to build a winner, and if Hahn and Williams have any kind of competence, it shouldn't take them that long either.

And, of course, the farm needs to become productive (drafting, international signings, development) or this is all a one-shot deal.

 

Exactly. With the assets we'd be able to get in return, plus Anderson, Collins, Rodon, Fulmer, Burdi, ect., we'd be able to field an actual legitimate club within 1-3 years. No more below average players like Leury Garcia, JB Shuck, ect.,coming up when someone gets hurt. Actually talented players who could contribute to a winning team is what we need.

 

We "might've be able to win" the past 7 years. Look how that turned out. I'm a big believer in prospects having relationships with the guys they play alongside playing a big part in winning. Look at how much Rizzo and Bryant love each other. Or Baez and Russell. The only way to gain such a culture and foster those relationships is through time and winning together on squads in the minors.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[bmags]

I just read that the Astros are going to be put up for Sale by their owner. Interesting. One would think that getting Sale would be compelling as a piece to market the franchise.

 

 

Where'd you read that? Guy only owned it for what 5 years? That's dumb, interested to see what it goes for though.

[bmags]

Exactly. With the assets we'd be able to get in return, plus Anderson, Collins, Rodon, Fulmer, Burdi, ect., we'd be able to field an actual legitimate club within 1-3 years. No more below average players like Leury Garcia, JB Shuck, ect.,coming up when someone gets hurt. Actually talented players who could contribute to a winning team is what we need.

 

We "might've be able to win" the past 7 years. Look how that turned out. I'm a big believer in prospects having relationships with the guys they play alongside playing a big part in winning. Look at how much Rizzo and Bryant love each other. Or Baez and Russell. The only way to gain such a culture and foster those relationships is through time and winning together on squads in the minors.

 

I agree with last paragraph (Cardinals believe in this) but Rizzo and Bryant didn't play together in minors and I don't think Baez and Russell did either.

[KMule2545]

I agree with last paragraph (Cardinals believe in this) but Rizzo and Bryant didn't play together in minors and I don't think Baez and Russell did either.

 

Point is that they're very young men who formed strong bonds while winning together. Growing together as people and players at any level.

[shipps]

Part of the reason why people would consider dumping everyone of value is in fact, as you say, they are acknowledging the White Sox's limitations. The White Sox have payroll limitations that keep them from throwing huge amounts of money at Harper/Machado in a couple years. The White Sox have a poor history of developing players. The White Sox have one of the worst systems in baseball and have for years. Those are the White Sox's limitations. So if they do only a quick "we can turn this around in 2 years" move, acquire 4-5 guys for Sale, fail to move Frazier/Cabrera, etc., and a couple of the guys they get back for Sale or one of their top draft picks busts, then they still are totally outgunned because they tried to make things happen in 2 years and their limitations prevented them from doing so.

 

I am not saying that you limit yourself and say you definitely will not consider unloading much of the team but you also shouldnt be so narrowed minded to think that that is the only way of rebuilding. I think one thing to get caught up in as a fan is that we dont trust the FO to rebuild a team in doing it any other way than what is an obvious rebuild like unloading every player at one time. Instead of being open to unload any player anywhere down the line if the value is what we are looking for. Maybe that is a valid fear but I am trying to keep an open mind that there are alternative ways to rebuilding and it doesnt have to be such a philosophical proclamation that they have to make to pacify a fan base. They need to grow some balls and have their own plan of rebuilding and execute it.

[Balta1701]

I am not saying that you limit yourself and say you definitely will not consider unloading much of the team but you also shouldnt be so narrowed minded to think that that is the only way of rebuilding. I think one thing to get caught up in as a fan is that we dont trust the FO to rebuild a team in doing it any other way than what is an obvious rebuild like unloading every player at one time. Instead of being open to unload any player anywhere down the line if the value is what we are looking for. Maybe that is a valid fear but I am trying to keep an open mind that there are alternative ways to rebuilding and it doesnt have to be such a philosophical proclamation that they have to make to pacify a fan base. They need to grow some balls and have their own plan of rebuilding and execute it.

I can make what appears to be an equally valid case that "growing some balls and having their own plan" could mean telling the Chairman the truth - that this won't be easy even if it's the right way to do it, and trying to force a 2 year plan onto it could make things far worse.

[hi8is]

Where'd you read that? Guy only owned it for what 5 years? That's dumb, interested to see what it goes for though.

Looks like it was some unsubstantiated bulls*** on twitter, disregard

[Dunt]

If Bregman is on the table, you make that deal. Him and Anderson on the left side of the infield for the next 5 years sounds juicy. Astros make the most sense, they are so damn close to being the top team in the AL. They need that front of the rotation arm though.

[Bob Sacamano]

If Bregman is on the table, you make that deal. Him and Anderson on the left side of the infield for the next 5 years sounds juicy. Astros make the most sense, they are so damn close to being the top team in the AL. They need that front of the rotation arm though.

 

Anderson and Bregman up the middle. And it would be 6 years. Even better.

Edited November 23, 2016 by soxfan2014

[GreenSox]

If Bregman is on the table, you make that deal.

+1

[he gone.]

I selfishly want the Astros to go through w. the trade. Ever since I moved to Houston a few years ago (back in Chi now) I became an Astros fan since I watched their games a lot.

 

The Astros do make sense, and I do think that Bregman could be available. They signed Gurriel who is a 3b who was displaced by Bregman who was displaced by Correa. There were talks about Gurriel playing LF or 1B next year, but then they signed Reddick. And still have Aoki, and Spring in the OF ... so then that shifted him to probably 1B... which is where they have Marwin Gonzalez and AJ Reed and Gattis and McCann and have been tied to Napoli....

 

Basically what I'm saying is that I think they view it as they have excess bats and can sign FA bats but can't acquire the pitching. I think it's a good fit.

 

What I'd want In return?

 

Give me:

 

Bregman, AJ Reed as a start. Kyle Tucker. David Paulino

 

I think that's a decent haul. AJ Reed should be your DH/1B for a while and you're buying low. You're getting a probable stud in Tucker. And Bregman should be penciled into your lineup for years to come.

 

I'm not a big fan, but wouldn't mind taking a flier on Marisnick or Moran as former top prospects and give them a shot.

 

[beautox]

Bregman, Martes, Paulino, Hernandez & Stubbs

[Dunt]

I wonder if a deal could be focused around Sale and Frazier/Abreu/Jones?

[KMule2545]

What I'd want In return?

 

Give me:

 

Bregman, AJ Reed as a start. Kyle Tucker. David Paulino

 

If I'm Hahn, it needs to center around Bregman/Tucker/Reed. 3 high ceiling bats with top prospect pedigree.

[iWiN4PreP]

I definitely think the Astros make a lot of sense. Bergman + their prospects and it's a good deal. Hell, send them Frazier and get some more back.

 

Their going for it now (rightfully so with their ball club) and we need those prospects!

[GreatScott82]

I wonder if Houston would be interested in Abreu as well? If that's the case-- a Springer, Bergman, Reed + more isn't out of the question. I'm happy Houston is jumping in on the action. I'm tired of hearing about DD's stubbornness in Boston and personally, I'm not the biggest fan of anything the Dodgers will offer.

[caulfield12]

Gonzalez/Gurriel/Reed/Gattis/McCann/T.White=no need for Abreu

Buying low/er on Reed unless he's deemed fatally flawed makes sense, but you obviously need Bregman.

 

Springer going to the Sox makes a lot less sense. He's their best outfielder. Like the Red Sox dealing Bradley or Betts.

Edited November 23, 2016 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

If I'm Hahn, it needs to center around Bregman/Tucker/Reed. 3 high ceiling bats with top prospect pedigree.

 

This is the type of deal I am looking at. The Sox are way better at the drafting and development of pitchers. Give me guys who are further along in another system and play premium positions. Houston is loaded with power hitting position players from looking at their lists. They also have a couple of interesting Latin players who could make high ceiling targets for years down teh road.

[caulfield12]

Buying low on Cameron as the fourth piece would be huge too...but might be overreaching with those top three.

 

Two simultaneous supertrades with the consolation prize of Quintana going to the loser for Sale?

Edited November 23, 2016 by caulfield12

[chw42]

I think Springer's a good player, but he's a free agent in 2021. I'd much rather get Bregman, who has 2 more years of control.

 

Springer's a 4-5 win player, but he's about to reach his peak next year at 27. Bregman is just 22. The surplus value on Bregman will be much higher than Springer.

Edited November 23, 2016 by chw42

[caulfield12]

Yeah, Springer is like the JBJr. Debate all over again...would be shocking if Astros dealt him.

[Soxnfins]

Screw it, if they want to rebuild on the fly and not do a total overhaul, why not try for Bregman AND Springer, maybe someone like Daz Cameron as a third piece.... I'd be perfectly ok with that deal. May not live up to people's standards or expectations, but I'd be very excited to watch the Sox next year. I have a feeling if we deal with HOU, we end up with Springer. Been saying it all along and just have a gut feeling.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Soxnfins

[KMule2545]

Screw it, if they want to rebuild on the fly and not do a total overhaul, why not try for Bregman AND Springer, maybe someone like Daz Cameron as a third piece.... I'd be perfectly ok with that deal. May not live up to people's standards or expectations, but I'd be very excited to watch the Sox next year. I have a feeling if we deal with HOU, we end up with Springer. Been saying it all along and just have a gut feeling.

 

I'm really curious why Houston seems so eager to move Springer. He seemingly fits in well in that clubhouse and fits perfectly on paper with Correa, Altuve, ect.

[ChiSox59]

Screw it, if they want to rebuild on the fly and not do a total overhaul, why not try for Bregman AND Springer, maybe someone like Daz Cameron as a third piece.... I'd be perfectly ok with that deal. May not live up to people's standards or expectations, but I'd be very excited to watch the Sox next year. I have a feeling if we deal with HOU, we end up with Springer. Been saying it all along and just have a gut feeling.

 

There were rumors from connected insiders that the Astros offered a Springer based package for Same in July, which the Sox obviously passed on. Doubt a few months will change their mind. Bregman is the guy, though I am intrigued by your idea of both.