SOURCE: 2 horse race between Dodgers and Astros

[bmags]

Between the two teams, I would much rather see Sale traded to the National League.

 

I like the Astros prospects more, though. Would rather just focus on getting better than whom we'll need to face in 2019/2020.

[Rowand44]

Why exactly would we care if Sale is traded to an AL team?

[bmags]

Why exactly would we care if Sale is traded to an AL team?

 

Because every time he comes by we'll have to rent a dope car and beg a hot friend to stand with us to act like we are fine. We're doing good, totally forgot about you Chris.

[Bob Sacamano]

Why exactly would we care if Sale is traded to an AL team?

 

Exactly. He would be on the Astros for 3 years. Do people think we will be a good team during that time?

[southsider2k5]

I like the Astros prospects more, though. Would rather just focus on getting better than whom we'll need to face in 2019/2020.

 

I like getting a position player as the top player in a deal versus a pitcher. I would rather get back Bregman/Springer versus Urias.

[bmags]

Springer is obviously wickedly talented but him being 26 (even though he is a sure-r thing than Bregman) really deflates some air for me.

[GreenSox]

There is a zero chance that any Chris Sale deal doesn't involve liberal input from not only Kenny Williams, but JR as well.

I just want him to stay out of the specifics.

It's his eagle eye and lust for tools that gave us Avisail, Walker and Hawkins and many others. He has a bad habit of getting myopic about specific players/prospects and losing value because of it.

 

 

He can give some overall parameters and then the "OK" if he believes the trade is fair, but he needs to stay out of the way of the specific return.

And, yes, I know I'm dreaming.

Edited November 23, 2016 by GreenSox

[shipps]

Exactly. He would be on the Astros for 3 years. Do people think we will be a good team during that time?

 

It is actually plausible that we will be pretty good. Sometimes it only takes a couple of young stars to enter into a lineup that put a team over the top. This rebuild doesnt HAVE to be what everyone thinks it needs to be in the traditional sense like the Cubs. It can be a more agile approach of adding young talent here and there as we go slowly building the best possible fits along the way. It doesnt have to be shipping it all out at one time to suck for 5 years to prove to the fan that its an official rebuild.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I don't care where Sale is moved as long as we get the best possible deal.

[southsider2k5]

I just want him to stay out of the specifics.

It's his eagle eye and lust for tools that gave us Avisail, Walker and Hawkins and many others. He has a bad habit of getting myopic about specific players/prospects and losing value because of it.

 

 

He can give some overall parameters and then the "OK" if he believes the trade is fair, but he needs to stay out of the way of the specific return.

And, yes, I know I'm dreaming.

 

Others like Jose Abreu?

[southsider2k5]

It is actually plausible that we will be pretty good. Sometimes it only takes a couple of young stars to enter into a lineup that put a team over the top. This rebuild doesnt HAVE to be what everyone thinks it needs to be in the traditional sense like the Cubs. It can be a more agile approach of adding young talent here and there as we go slowly building the best possible fits along the way. It doesnt have to be shipping it all out at one time to suck for 5 years to prove to the fan that its an official rebuild.

 

I know that is what most people want, but I really see there being a barely above zero chance of that happening.

[NCsoxfan]

I believe that Boston doesn't want to trade its top prospects but I think that's foolish. They're not going to win in the postseason with that rotation.

 

Also, I think Houston makes the most sense. Their moves are clearly with the notion of winning today. They need a front end ace more than anyone.

Edited November 23, 2016 by NCsoxfan

[Rowand44]

It is actually plausible that we will be pretty good. Sometimes it only takes a couple of young stars to enter into a lineup that put a team over the top. This rebuild doesnt HAVE to be what everyone thinks it needs to be in the traditional sense like the Cubs. It can be a more agile approach of adding young talent here and there as we go slowly building the best possible fits along the way. It doesnt have to be shipping it all out at one time to suck for 5 years to prove to the fan that its an official rebuild.

That's fine and dandy. Thing is if you want to speed up the process you do that by getting the best package possible, you don't worry about what league you're trading him to. If you're going to take a lesser package because you don't want to trade him with in the AL, that's a huge problem.

[shipps]

[/b]

 

I know that is what most people want, but I really see there being a barely above zero chance of that happening.

 

Thankfully it probably wont be the way that they approach this. It is narrow minded to think that its the ONLY effective way to do a rebuild. It is one way to do it, yes, but not the only way and I wish people would get out of that mindset. I personally would rather the Sox find their own path to success than thinking that they are capable of replicating Theo Epstein. Know your limitations and build upon your strengths management.

[shipps]

That's fine and dandy. Thing is if you want to speed up the process you do that by getting the best package possible, you don't worry about what league you're trading him to. If you're going to take a lesser package because you don't want to trade him with in the AL, that's a huge problem.

 

I totally wasnt suggesting that but I can see how it might have come across as that. I was just speaking in terms of everyone wanting a complete tear down because they think its the only way to rebuild.

[Rowand44]

I totally wasnt suggesting that but I can see how it might have come across as that. I was just speaking in terms of everyone wanting a complete tear down because they think its the only way to rebuild.

I knew you weren't. In the context of what we were talking about it gave me the chance to yell at you though.

[shipps]

I knew you weren't. In the context of what we were talking about it gave me the chance to yell at you though.

 

Son.Of.A.b****.

 

You get me every damn time.

[Soxnfins]

In regards for the Sale derby.

 

Red Sox actually appear to be telling the truth when they say they won't pony up the price it would take to get Sale.

 

Apparently Bregman and Springer are being dangled (not together) but the team still would ideally prefer trading him to the NL.

 

Take this with a grain of salt if you want, but my source has been right about everything he has said so far dating back to 2014.

 

 

Had a strong hunch that we'd want him.

[Princess Dye]

Just curious, what is the track record for Carpe Diem calling trades in the past?

[KMule2545]

Thankfully it probably wont be the way that they approach this. It is narrow minded to think that its the ONLY effective way to do a rebuild. It is one way to do it, yes, but not the only way and I wish people would get out of that mindset. I personally would rather the Sox find their own path to success than thinking that they are capable of replicating Theo Epstein. Know your limitations and build upon your strengths management.

 

It's not about replicating Theo. It's about doing it the right way. Say we trade Sale, Frazier, Melky, and Robertson. Are those assets we get + 4 years of Q, Eaton, and Jones really going to allow us to compete annually for the next 10? I really doubt it. Besides Jones' injury history, Eaton's recklessness and immaturity, and Eaton and Q's skill sets that arguably won't age well...why would you want to see a half-assed rebuild? Dump everything completely, shed tons and tons of cash for the 2018 free agent market, and let our young assets actually grow for once in the minors. If we do the half rebuild you're calling for, Collins among other prospects will be in the Majors in 2017, based on need and necessity, not based on what's good for the player and organization's development. Aren't you sick of seeing that? I am.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[bmags]

Just curious, what is the track record for Carpe Diem calling trades in the past?

 

I don't think there is a track record, OTOH, this is more of a process who is in the race type post and not a "x is about to be dealt" one. All of it can change and any team can jump in or out at any point so wouldn't worry about it either way.

 

But if true, its exciting because it means A+ prospects like Bregman/Urias are still in talks.

[Balta1701]

I totally wasnt suggesting that but I can see how it might have come across as that. I was just speaking in terms of everyone wanting a complete tear down because they think its the only way to rebuild.

Part of the reason why people would consider dumping everyone of value is in fact, as you say, they are acknowledging the White Sox's limitations. The White Sox have payroll limitations that keep them from throwing huge amounts of money at Harper/Machado in a couple years. The White Sox have a poor history of developing players. The White Sox have one of the worst systems in baseball and have for years. Those are the White Sox's limitations. So if they do only a quick "we can turn this around in 2 years" move, acquire 4-5 guys for Sale, fail to move Frazier/Cabrera, etc., and a couple of the guys they get back for Sale or one of their top draft picks busts, then they still are totally outgunned because they tried to make things happen in 2 years and their limitations prevented them from doing so.

[TheFutureIsNear]

No problem, apparently any prospect on the Dodgers is available. So the "Urias is off limits" fuzz is just that. However, I was told that if the Dodgers include Urias they are not keen on including Bellinger, but that was just for Sale straight up. If White Sox added more I'm sure Bellinger would be added. Only other name that was mentioned is Calhoun ( White Sox//Kenny Williams love him)

 

Not to look too deep into it....but could your source not be considering Urias a prospect still therefore not really clarifying whether he is or isn't available? I still just can't see the Dodgers giving up Urias + a good package of hitting prospects to make it worth our while. It would be nice to get a young left handed ace to replace Sale, but we need a whole heck of a lot more to help this team rebuild.

 

Bregman is still my #1 target. Bergman + AJ Reed would be even more ideal. Hopefully the rumors of the Stros looking at Napoli are true to free up both Bregman and Reed. If not throw them Frazier in the deal as well.

Edited November 23, 2016 by TheFutureIsNear

[hi8is]

Just curious, what is the track record for Carpe Diem calling trades in the past?

It's irrelevant, as he isn't claiming to be a source.

[GreenSox]

It's not about replicating Theo. It's about doing it the right way.

And Theo didn't have anywhere close to the tradeable assets that Hahn and Williams have.

If the Sox trade Sale, Q, Eaton and Jones, that is as big a dispersal of highly productive players in their prime as I've ever seen. Plus they have some of the short term guys like Frazier, D Rob and Melky, which is about all that most reubilders have to sell

Now they can't flood the market with them and some are better traded in July.

It didn't take Theo 5 years to build a winner, and if Hahn and Williams have any kind of competence, it shouldn't take them that long either.

And, of course, the farm needs to become productive (drafting, international signings, development) or this is all a one-shot deal.