Could Sox Trade Sale & Be Better Next Season?

[Dunt]

Pretty straight forward question: if the Sox end up trading Sale, do you think the haul and free agent additions could lead them to having a better team? I think it'll be hard to replace Sale's value, but I could definitely see a situation where the Sox plug 1-2 holes with studs, get trade pieces to fill other holes, then maybe fill in free agency. They still keep most of their core with extra control (Q, Eaton, Anderson, Rodon, Jones, etc.) and add young talent to supplement that core while not fully committing to blowing the entirety of this core up. With the way this offseason has developed so far, I could see this being the move of the front office.

[NCsoxfan]

Presumably most of the pieces coming back for Sale wouldn't be top contributors in '17. Also, if they're trading Sale, they're not going to turn around and be buyers somewhere else IMO (or trade for pieces to help today). So unless everyone else on the roster makes gigantic strides I don't see that happening.

[bmags]

I would not be surprised if ala 14 we are encouraged by production of a number of young players. But if we are 81-81 I shudder at how this sox FO may respond, and we'll be living in deja vu of a few core wonderful players surrounded by trash.

[flavum]

Honestly, I hope not. Trading Sale should be part of a true rebuild. They should be punting on 2017 and 2018, with the plan of being an interesting team by 2019, and a postseason team 2020-2023.

[TheFutureIsNear]

No, not nearly enough talent in the organization still. Not even really close. Long way to go before we do and Sale would only put a small dent in fixing the damage that has been done the past 4+ years.

[shipps]

Honestly, I hope not. Trading Sale should be part of a true rebuild. They should be punting on 2017 and 2018, with the plan of being an interesting team by 2019, and a postseason team 2020-2023.

 

See, I dont understand this logic. You dont want them to be better and have a good season next year? You do realize you dont HAVE TO SUCK for years to rebuild and just because you do doesnt ensure you will have a successful rebuild either, right? If they trade Sale and they happen to have a good year it may mean that they hit big on some talent that they brought over and the current group they had either played to their potential or made progress. Is that really that bad?

 

Not every team has to do it the Cubs or Royals way to be successful.

[flavum]

See, I dont understand this logic. You dont want them to be better and have a good season next year? You do realize you dont HAVE TO SUCK for years to rebuild and just because you do doesnt ensure you will have a successful rebuild either, right? If they trade Sale and they happen to have a good year it may mean that they hit big on some talent that they brought over and the current group they had either played to their potential or made progress. Is that really that bad?

 

Not every team has to do it the Cubs or Royals way to be successful.

 

They've won one postseason game 2006-2016. They already do suck. What's another another 2-3 years, if there's a better path to winning with players that can actually play together for years at a time, and not just rely on luck and other teams having bad years? I know it's a risk to rebuild, but what they've done over the last 7-8 years has been an absolute failure. It's time they try to acquire assets upon assets, and make their own luck.

[Dunt]

Theoretically, if a trade for Sale brought back something like:

 

Benintendi

Devers

E Rod

Swihart

+

 

And you fielded a team of:

 

C Swihart/Narvaez

1B Abreu/Frazier/Saladino

2B Saladino/?

SS Anderson/Saladino

3B Frazier/Saladino

LF Cabrera/Swihart

CF Benintendi

RF Eaton

DH Cabrera/FA

 

SP Quintana

SP Rodon

SP Rodriguez

SP Fulmer

SP Shields

 

I could see that being better than a 81 win team without squinting too hard

[bmags]

See, I dont understand this logic. You dont want them to be better and have a good season next year? You do realize you dont HAVE TO SUCK for years to rebuild and just because you do doesnt ensure you will have a successful rebuild either, right? If they trade Sale and they happen to have a good year it may mean that they hit big on some talent that they brought over and the current group they had either played to their potential or made progress. Is that really that bad?

 

Not every team has to do it the Cubs or Royals way to be successful.

 

I'm speaking for him, but I worry that they will prematurely "accelerate" the rebuild ala 15 and trade away some of the depth for lateral moves.

 

Just look at some of these rumored players for Sale. I don't want to be mean to Fulmer, who is still developing, but if we had not gone for it in 15, we'd have 2 more players on the farm due to not losing compensatory picks and would have picked earlier in the draft (likely) that netted Alex Bregman, Andrew Benintendi, Kyle Tucker and Dansby Swanson.

 

Impossible to know if we would have been bad enough to see these results, but how much better would you feel about state of sox if we had just debuted Anderson and Bregman, had a 20 home run second baseman in Semien, and Abreu as 1b.

 

That's why I don't want to rush, get a group to develop and let them develop before trading them in for more.

[caulfield12]

If you are 81-81, you lose those two years the Cubs had of drafting Bryant and Schwarber.

 

And the White Sox can't afford to play the free agency market as it stands, so they absolutely need to hit on two more Top 10 draft picks for this to actually work.

 

It's all a numbers game. Trading the remaining pieces other than Anderson and maybe Rodon/Earon gives them lots of lottery tickets and then theoretically two close to 'surer things' at the top of the draft.

 

To spend on the open market for that type of talent is cost-prohibitive, and almost all of those expensive players are staring at the downside of their careers with a few rare exceptions like Trout, Harper and Machado.

Edited November 28, 2016 by caulfield12

[flavum]

If they trade Sale, there's no point in keeping Frazier and Cabrera, and that rotation isn't good enough. I'm sorry, but if Sale goes, we should also want top 5 picks in 2018 and 2019. Assets.

[caulfield12]

I'm speaking for him, but I worry that they will prematurely "accelerate" the rebuild ala 15 and trade away some of the depth for lateral moves.

 

Just look at some of these rumored players for Sale. I don't want to be mean to Fulmer, who is still developing, but if we had not gone for it in 15, we'd have 2 more players on the farm due to not losing compensatory picks and would have picked earlier in the draft (likely) that netted Alex Bregman, Andrew Benintendi, Kyle Tucker and Dansby Swanson.

 

Impossible to know if we would have been bad enough to see these results, but how much better would you feel about state of sox if we had just debuted Anderson and Bregman, had a 20 home run second baseman in Semien, and Abreu as 1b.

 

That's why I don't want to rush, get a group to develop and let them develop before trading them in for more.

 

A cost-controlled 26 year-old Semien who just hit 27 homers in a much bigger park than USCF.

[southsider2k5]

Could? Sure in the sense that the entire group could have career years in the same year. Realistically? Nah. Trade Sale and then see guys like Robertson, Cabrera, and Frazier go as well and the odds are pretty high of this being a 60ish win team.

[hogan873]

Theoretically, if a trade for Sale brought back something like:

 

Benintendi

Devers

E Rod

Swihart

+

 

And you fielded a team of:

 

C Swihart/Narvaez

1B Abreu/Frazier/Saladino

2B Saladino/?

SS Anderson/Saladino

3B Frazier/Saladino

LF Cabrera/Swihart

CF Benintendi

RF Eaton

DH Cabrera/FA

 

SP Quintana

SP Rodon

SP Rodriguez

SP Fulmer

SP Shields

 

I could see that being better than a 81 win team without squinting too hard

I agree with your thinking. They'd have to get back a great package (like you outlined) or get back a decent package and spend on a FA or two. Trading one of Sale or Quintana and one of Frazier or Abreu wouldn't be a salary dump. They'd save some money, but not dramatically so. There wouldn't be a lot of additional funds available for a guy like Cespedes (for example).

 

So, yes, they could be a good team with trading Sale, but just about everything would have to go right, starting with a huge return.

[KMule2545]

Honestly, I hope not. Trading Sale should be part of a true rebuild. They should be punting on 2017 and 2018, with the plan of being an interesting team by 2019, and a postseason team 2020-2023.

 

This is my stance. It does 0 to improve our long term depth trading just Sale.

[KMule2545]

Theoretically, if a trade for Sale brought back something like:

 

Benintendi

Devers

E Rod

Swihart

+

 

And you fielded a team of:

 

C Swihart/Narvaez

1B Abreu/Frazier/Saladino

2B Saladino/?

SS Anderson/Saladino

3B Frazier/Saladino

LF Cabrera/Swihart

CF Benintendi

RF Eaton

DH Cabrera/FA

 

SP Quintana

SP Rodon

SP Rodriguez

SP Fulmer

SP Shields

 

I could see that being better than a 81 win team without squinting too hard

 

By all accounts Swihart should not be catching due to defensive shortcomings.

[Dick Allen]

They've won one postseason game 2006-2016. They already do suck. What's another another 2-3 years, if there's a better path to winning with players that can actually play together for years at a time, and not just rely on luck and other teams having bad years? I know it's a risk to rebuild, but what they've done over the last 7-8 years has been an absolute failure. It's time they try to acquire assets upon assets, and make their own luck.

So you don't want them to be a playoff team until the Rodon clock is down to 2 years? That's pretty silly. If they trade all these guys for players who are good, why waste 3 years to maybe be good for 3 or 4 years?

[steveno89]

By all accounts Swihart should not be catching due to defensive shortcomings.

 

Swihart has a decent bat, but is a bad defensive catcher and is injury prone

 

He does not have near the value I have seen many place on him

[KMule2545]

Swihart has a decent bat, but is a bad defensive catcher and is injury prone

 

He does not have near the value I have seen many place on him

 

I do really like Swihart as a 4th or 5th piece in a Sale deal, just not as a catcher. He makes contact, switch hits, and is extremely athletic.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[bmags]

If you are rebuilding why would you care about developing Swihart as catcher? If he does turn better as a defensive catcher you have a good offensive catcher cost controlled for 4 more years, if he doesn't pan out at catcher you try him as an OF/DH if his bat warrants it.

[KMule2545]

So you don't want them to be a playoff team until the Rodon clock is down to 2 years? That's pretty silly. If they trade all these guys for players who are good, why waste 3 years to maybe be good for 3 or 4 years?

 

If the Sox were smart, they'd let Rodon bust out and move him for a mega package in a year or 2, as he'll likely never be signed long-term for big money under current ownership.

[KMule2545]

If you are rebuilding why would you care about developing Swihart as catcher? If he does turn better as a defensive catcher you have a good offensive catcher cost controlled for 4 more years, if he doesn't pan out at catcher you try him as an OF/DH if his bat warrants it.

 

Firstly, and most importantly, catcher is a defensive-first position. We need someone back there who is going to help our pitchers, not hurt them. You wanna try him behind the plate at AAA, go ahead. I have no problems with that. But he should not be acquired to be plugged in at catcher on the Major League roster.

 

Second, his injury history would be scary for someone behind the plate. Most recent injury was a leg, if I'm not mistaken.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[shipps]

They've won one postseason game 2006-2016. They already do suck. What's another another 2-3 years, if there's a better path to winning with players that can actually play together for years at a time, and not just rely on luck and other teams having bad years? I know it's a risk to rebuild, but what they've done over the last 7-8 years has been an absolute failure. It's time they try to acquire assets upon assets, and make their own luck.

 

Why cant this be done while still having a good season? They still get draft picks as far as I know.

 

Look, if you dont trust the FO I get it. Most fans dont. But to wish the team does bad after their most significant trade of this rebuild seems faulty to me. They are still allowed to make trades as they go.

 

I get bmags point about not trusting the FO to do this but damn, I trust that having a good season is never going to be a bad thing. I hope they do well and then build upon that not loosing sight of the plan. If they decide to go full rebuild and they suck I will trust that too. I am not going to be closed to any way they want to do this as long as they have a damn long term plan.

[steveno89]

Why cant this be done while still having a good season? They still get draft picks as far as I know.

 

Look, if you dont trust the FO I get it. Most fans dont. But to wish the team does bad after their most significant trade of this rebuild seems faulty to me. They are still allowed to make trades as they go.

 

I get bmags point about not trusting the FO to do this but damn, I trust that having a good season is never going to be a bad thing. I hope they do well and then build upon that not loosing sight of the plan. If they decide to go full rebuild and they suck I will trust that too. I am not going to be closed to any way they want to do this as long as they have a damn long term plan.

 

By trading Sale you would be punting on 2017 and likely 2018. But there is no reason why you could not compete in 2019 with the right moves

[Eminor3rd]

Sure, they CAN. But it would be because they got a bunch of unexpected breakout years, and they would almost certainly and justifiably still fall short of the playoffs, and we would consider it a promising development for 2018.

 

I don't think there's any reasonable path to trading Sale whilst also "going for it" this offseason.