White Sox Not Willing to Trade with Cubs

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I honestly doubt this is really the case. I don't care where Sale is traded as long as it's the best possible deal. If it's the Cubs? So be it. They got their World Series.

[caulfield12]

Bell for Sosa

Garland for Karchner

 

Here's the thing, the odds are just as high Sale has a career threatening injury (see Sirotka/Wells deal) or those Cubs' position prospects lead to a rebirth on the SouthSide.

 

Nobody can predict what will happen with pitchers. Look at Wood and Prior as 2003 ended, or even Zambrano.

 

 

The biggest threat to the Cubs is pitching-related if Hendricks returns to human again or after Arrieta leaves or gets injured from overuse/overdoing his conditioning. Epstein knows this clearly, but also knows going after the Rick Porcellos and Maeda/Ryu/Kazmir/McCarthy/Anderson types in free agency (not unlike Hammel/Lackey) is more cost effective than risking top prospects getting away unless you do get that "sure thing/over the top" piece.

 

Even then, that sure thing in Chapman turned out to almost be the source of their undoing in the postseason.

 

 

 

 

[Harry Chappas]

I think the cubs would have to overpay comparatively for Sale.

 

The cubs rotation is getting aged and Arrieta may be traded for youth which could be spun for Sale.

 

My guess though would be that the cubs would want Quintana, Jones, Eaton or Robertson before Sale.

[iamshack]

I don't know -- I get what you guys are saying (and it certainly never should have gotten out), but as a fan, Sale winning a WS with the Cubs would certainly make me feel bitter. And feelings of bitterness are bad for brands. Unless you think SOx fans wouldn't care at all, it's a defensible business move.

 

I think it would be different if the Cubs were one of a few teams on the hunt for Sale. But with plenty of suitors out there, I think it makes some sense.

 

But yeah, you absolutely keep it under wraps.

If Sale wins ANYWHERE else, people are going to be bitter about it.

 

Now I concede that the Cubs/White Sox nonsense would add some flavor to this that would simply not be present with other clubs, irregardless if they won with Sale. However, that being said, would that bitterness go away if you were watching a young, exciting club like the Cubs are actually winning again on the southside?

 

If that could come sooner, rather than later, you wouldn't accept Sale being on the northside versus the Red Sox? Or in Houston?

[southsider2k5]

If Sale wins ANYWHERE else, people are going to be bitter about it.

 

Now I concede that the Cubs/White Sox nonsense would add some flavor to this that would simply not be present with other clubs, irregardless if they won with Sale. However, that being said, would that bitterness go away if you were watching a young, exciting club like the Cubs are actually winning again on the southside?

 

If that could come sooner, rather than later, you wouldn't accept Sale being on the northside versus the Red Sox? Or in Houston?

 

Except it will be years before that actually happens, if it ever does.

[iamshack]

Except it will be years before that actually happens, if it ever does.

I'm not sure I am willing to concede that, but even so, it will be years either way, using your logic.

 

The White Sox being better, sooner, is so much more important to me than anything the Cubs are doing, whether with former White Sox players or not.

 

I guess all I'll say is I hope our FO aligns with my thoughts, and not yours.

[caulfield12]

Except it will be years before that actually happens, if it ever does.

 

What rebuilding team has ever traded off three Top 30-50 MLB talents in Sale, Q and Eaton and completely whiffed?

 

Not to mention Abreu, Frazier, Cabrera, Robertson and Jones, etc.

 

If they are not in a better position...also having Anderson/Rodon/Collins, when would they EVER be?

 

As it is, we only have the Padres, Mariners and Marlins between us and infamy, and the Marlins won two trophies in their first decade. Of course, they also lost one of the franchise pitchers in recent baseball history (senselessly).

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I'm not sure I am willing to concede that, but even so, it will be years either way, using your logic.

 

The White Sox being better, sooner, is so much more important to me than anything the Cubs are doing, whether with former White Sox players or not.

 

I guess all I'll say is I hope our FO aligns with my thoughts, and not yours.

 

Realistically, all you have to do is to read any thread that mentions the Cubs to see the reaction of the White Sox fan base to understand the extra level of bitterness that has to do with anything including the Cubs. The reactions in this thread alone tell that story.

 

And in this situation, I don't see the Cubs having the ability to make the Sox the best offer without blowing up their starting line up, so this whole argument is essentially moot anyway.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

I would be absolutely heartbroken if Christopher Allen Sale ever wore a Cubs jersey.

[Lip Man 1]

I have no idea if any of this is true or not.

 

I will say though, that IF it is...it represents a significant and radical change in "philosophy" for JR.

 

For decades the Sox have openly said they are not in competition with the Cubs. Remember "we're Chicago's American League team?" to cite one example.

 

I've always strongly felt and said the Sox ARE in direct competition with the Cubs and by doing nothing for decades basically giving the city and home market to them they are partially responsible for their own irrelevance.

 

Mark

 

 

[Dick Allen]

I have no idea if any of this is true or not.

 

I will say though, that IF it is...it represents a significant and radical change in "philosophy" for JR.

 

For decades the Sox have openly said they are not in competition with the Cubs. Remember "we're Chicago's American League team?" to cite one example.

 

I've always strongly felt and said the Sox ARE in direct competition with the Cubs and by doing nothing for decades basically giving the city and home market to them they are partially responsible for their own irrelevance.

 

Mark

The Sox know the Cubs are rivals even if some people here do not. They tried like hell to sign Mark Grace, Greg Maddux when he got a little older, and Kerry Wood, and Rick Sutcliffe. . I remember a quote from Sutcliffe saying given his Cubs tenure, he just couldn't become a White Sox. A lot of that was to try to stick it to the Cubs. They were looking for good players, but being northside fan favorites was appealing.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Dick Allen

[dmbjeff]

If Theo calls and offers Schwarber, Baez, Contreras, Happ, Jimenez....you hang up the phone on them? Give me a break. If it makes the Sox better for long term sustainable growth as a franchise, you do the deal. To quote the Andy to the warden in Shawshank, "Why are you being so obtuse?"

[Dam8610]

I don't think they should've taken it to the extreme they did, but if Theo or Jed called, Hahn's response should've been something along the lines of, "You can have Sale, you just have to give us Bryant, Contreras, Russell, and Schwarber." If they don't hang up the phone at that point, listen to what they have to say, and if they aren't sending twice the value you think you could get from anyone else, go get it from someone else.

[Eminor3rd]

If Sale wins ANYWHERE else, people are going to be bitter about it.

 

Now I concede that the Cubs/White Sox nonsense would add some flavor to this that would simply not be present with other clubs, irregardless if they won with Sale. However, that being said, would that bitterness go away if you were watching a young, exciting club like the Cubs are actually winning again on the southside?

 

If that could come sooner, rather than later, you wouldn't accept Sale being on the northside versus the Red Sox? Or in Houston?

 

Again, if the Cubs were the best/only suitor, it changes things dramatically. But there are still four teams in the hunt with at least as much ammo to make a move, and another 5 that could put together a really nice package should the top of the market collapse. I don't think there's any scenario where a good deal with the Cubs gets the Sox theoretically closer to contention than a good deal with another top contender.

[iamshack]

Again, if the Cubs were the best/only suitor, it changes things dramatically. But there are still four teams in the hunt with at least as much ammo to make a move, and another 5 that could put together a really nice package should the top of the market collapse. I don't think there's any scenario where a good deal with the Cubs gets the Sox theoretically closer to contention than a good deal with another top contender.

Well just because one has the ammo doesn't mean one is willing to expend it.

 

What if the Cubs were the only one?

[southsider2k5]

If Theo calls and offers Schwarber, Baez, Contreras, Happ, Jimenez....you hang up the phone on them? Give me a break. If it makes the Sox better for long term sustainable growth as a franchise, you do the deal. To quote the Andy to the warden in Shawshank, "Why are you being so obtuse?"

 

Like I said earlier, I would bet money that a conversation between the two happened at some point, with Hahn asking for something similar in return. Then it got turned into the Sox wouldn't deal with the Cubs.

[Jake]

Let's not forget the Sox could very well say they won't deal with the Cubs as a negotiation tactic.

[iWiN4PreP]

I think it's a bit childish and immature to outright reject dealing with the Cubs. I would treat them as any other team and evaluate their offer as I would other offers. If they were willing to start with Baez and Schwarber, we can begin negotiations and set up an offer and cross-check it with other teams.

 

Any logical person would do this and not worry about some sorry rivalry.

[steveno89]

I think it's a bit childish and immature to outright reject dealing with the Cubs. I would treat them as any other team and evaluate their offer as I would other offers. If they were willing to start with Baez and Schwarber, we can begin negotiations and set up an offer and cross-check it with other teams.

 

Any logical person would do this and not worry about some sorry rivalry.

 

The cubs window to win is the next few seasons as they have cost controlled talent, as well as one more season of arrieta and Lester still in his prime.

 

Rivalry aside, the cubs absolutely should be contacting the white sox about sale as an insurance policy for arrieta leaving in free agency.

 

I would certainly be interested in what they could offer.

 

[tray]

 

Bernstein isn't a white sox fan. Never has been and never will be. He is a sarcastic wise guyl though.

If I am a GM on any team I do not want to deal with Epstein because he wins every trade and will not give up his best prospects and players.

That's fine but I don't want to be on the losing end of a trade with the Cubs.

 

I still don't know how they got Addison Russell and Jake Arrieta. for dregach.

 

 

 

[Sleepy Harold]

Bernstein isn't a white sox fan. Never has been and never will be. He is a sarcastic wise guyl though.

If I am a GM on any team I do not want to deal with Epstein because he wins every trade and will not give up his best prospects and players.

That's fine but I don't want to be on the losing end of a trade with the Cubs.

 

I still don't know how they got Addison Russell and Jake Arrieta. for dregach.

Yes, he is. This has been stated multiple times.

[Bob Sacamano]

Bernstein isn't a white sox fan. Never has been and never will be. He is a sarcastic wise guyl though.

If I am a GM on any team I do not want to deal with Epstein because he wins every trade and will not give up his best prospects and players.

That's fine but I don't want to be on the losing end of a trade with the Cubs.

 

I still don't know how they got Addison Russell and Jake Arrieta. for dregach.

 

Arrieta wasn't anything until he changed his delivery and got away from the Baltimore staff.

[dpd9189]

Even if the Sox have NO intention of dealing with the Cubs, you don't let that get out. JR needs to stop acting like a God damn child.

[QuickJones81]

I'm OK with the White Sox blackballing the Cubs when it comes to trading for one simple reason, I have zero faith that Hahn/Kenny can win a deal with Theo on the other end. Zero.

[Donaldo]

The Cubs success doesn't hurt the Sox. The Sox inability to put a winning product on the field hurts the Sox.

 

+1

 

This is a terrible opinion. The Sox shouldn't care that the Cubs won the World Series. They should care that somebody other than them did.

 

+1

 

This refusal to trade with the Cubs comes off as a childish temper tantrum that's almost as embarrassing as it is immature. IMO, it's just further proof that changes have to be made in the front office pronto.

 

The Cubs have a pretty deep farm system. If they're willing to trade us multiple quality position players for Chris Sale (who only plays once every five days), take it!

 

The Cubs don't need our help to win. If anything, WE need THEIRS.