Kenny Williams is an ALL TIME BAD GM: Hear me out

[Carpe Diem]

The fact this smug, pompous, arrogant, goofy, AWFUL baseball careerist is STILL a powerful figure in within this orginization is the biggest slap in the face I have ever felt as a sports face. Worse than any Ron Turner offense or Mel Tucker defense.

 

I won't completely rehash what has been said about how he struck gold in 2005 on career years from literally 85% of the roster and how he wasted money on aging DH's/OF's.

 

Instead I want to very bluntly suggest to people who haven't already done so: Google the White Sox draft history during the Kenny Williams era. THIS ALONE SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO CAN HIS ASS!

 

HE MAKES MATT MILLEN LOOK COMPETENT. And no I do not think he racially biased.

 

Fire Kenny Williams shirts and posters are gonna be EVERYWHERE at the G-RATE. Watch.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Carpe Diem

[username]

The fact this smug, pompous, arrogant, goofy, AWFUL baseball careerist is STILL a powerful figure in within this orginization is the biggest slap in the face I have ever felt as a sports face. Worse than any Ron Turn offense or Mel Tucker defense.

 

I won't completely rehash what has been said about how he struck gold in 2005 on career years from literally 85% of the roster and how he wasted money on aging DH's/OF's.

 

Instead I want to very bluntly suggest to people who haven't already done so: Google the White Sox draft history during the Kenny Williams era. THIS ALONE SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO CAN HIS ASS!

 

HE MAKES MATT MILLEN LOOK COMPETENT. And no I do not think he racially biased.

 

Fire Kenny Williams shirts and posters are gonna be EVERYWHERE at the G-RATE. Watch.

 

Please tell me this rant doesn't have anything to do with an impending Sox move.

[Buehrle>Wood]

While winning a world series probably doesn't exclude you from being a bad GM, it should exclude you from being all time bad.

 

Also, if you have sources in the front office, you probably shouldn't be bashing them.

[caulfield12]

And Hahn has made 1 1/2 good moves in 4+ years...Eaton for Santiago, and how much credit you can actually give for Tim Anderson to Hahn vs. Kenny Williams?

 

Abreu goes mostly to KW and Paddy.

 

KW has to get some credit for Sale, Quintana, etc. And Hahn hasn't made a single really good free agent signing...Miguel Gonzalez, theoretically, is the best.

[Carpe Diem]

While winning a world series probably doesn't exclude you from being a bad GM, it should exclude you from being all time bad.

 

Also, if you have sources in the front office, you probably shouldn't be bashing them.

 

Lol the front office is as divided as the media make it seem. They somehow stumbled upon hiring quite a few very bright and innovative baseball mind, but in typical JR fashion...his cronies have too much influence.

 

Although from what I am hearing, Kenny isn't really in control of where Chris Sale gets moved. So need to get nervous....yet.

[caulfield12]

Carpe Diem, what exactly has Rick Hahn done in four years to earn your trust, exactly?

[Bigsoxhurt35]

LOL wins a World Series and is all-time bad...got it

[knightni]

This topic has no quality or substance at all; just pure, seething, biased, hatred and venting.

 

If you want to remain long term as a poster here, you might want to start actually backing up your opinions with facts instead of hyperbolic vitriol.

 

It takes more than one individual to cause an organization to fail - it's a team effort.

[Bob Sacamano]

Why is this randomly coming up today?

 

Are they about to sign Trumbo or something?/green Lol

Edited November 30, 2016 by soxfan2014

[Dick Allen]

I am no fan of KW, but a WS title with a payroll that isn't over the top alone disqualifies him from being an all time bad GM.

 

This thread really makes me doubt any inside info this poster has provided.

[GGajewski18]

I am no fan of KW, but a WS title with a payroll that isn't over the top alone disqualifies him from being an all time bad GM.

 

This thread really makes me doubt any inside info this poster has provided.

 

Yeah I agree with you DA. Why create a thread like this when your new to the board and claim that you have inside information?

 

Doesn't make sense.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Yep this thread is the kind a total meatball fan makes, not one with any sort of source or inside knowledge.

[Carpe Diem]

Yeah I agree with you DA. Why create a thread like this when your new to the board and claim that you have inside information?

 

Doesn't make sense.

 

 

I don't give the slightest eff you see kay

 

Let the chips fall where they may and check my record after the storm settles.

 

Convince me otherwise Kenny Williams was a good GM. Please.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

The OP is an interesting character to say the least.

[Harry Chappas]

The thing that is really under my skin right now is that looking at the successful farm systems of the teams looking at Chris Sale, we are trading for the thing we neglect the most, international players.

 

Hahn was supposedly the guy that got these guys signed to team friendly deals and now needs to sell these good deals for hopefully 80 cents on the dollar to rebuild.

 

This is the time where we should be supplanting talent with the cost controlled guys not rebuilding but we do nto have the resources to do this.

 

The White Sox need someone to run the organization properly.

 

This is top down failure.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I think it's impossible to separate Reinsdorf's direction/influence vs. KW's production. We know Jerry meddles, with known examples include forcing the front office to keep Ozzie and forcing them to go with the rotating DH disaster that turned out to be Kotsay. I'm sure there are plenty of other instances, especially on the people side where his unwavering loyalty has surely been an issue. And more importantly, we know for a fact he hasn't allowed for a legit rebuild in recent years when one was probably needed, which would be fine if he actually gave his front office the financial resources needed to build a winner.

 

That being said, I think KW's ego has gotten the best of him recently. He used to make some terrific moves, picking up undervalued assets on the regular. Just seems like we're making a lot less of those moves nowadays. Seems like our scouting has fallen off quite a bit under his watch, especially the pro scouting team. While I don't necessarily blame him for the Wilder fiasco, he must wield some responsibly for allowing the system to completely rot for an unacceptable period of time. He deserves a ton of credit for that 2005 team, but I think it's officially time for a chance.

[KMule2545]

I think it's impossible to separate Reinsdorf's direction/influence vs. KW's production. We know Jerry meddles, with known examples include forcing the front office to keep Ozzie and forcing them to go with the rotating DH disaster that turned out to be Kotsay. I'm sure there are plenty of other instances, especially on the people side where his unwavering loyalty has surely been an issue. And more importantly, we know for a fact he hasn't allowed for a legit rebuild in recent years when one was probably needed, which would be fine if he actually gave his front office the financial resources needed to build a winner.

 

That being said, I think KW's ego has gotten the best of him recently. He used to make some terrific moves, picking up undervalued assets on the regular. Just seems like we're making a lot less of those moves nowadays. Seems like our scouting has fallen off quite a bit under his watch, especially the pro scouting team. While I don't necessarily blame him for the Wilder fiasco, he must wield some responsibly for allowing the system to completely rot for an unacceptable period of time. He deserves a ton of credit for that 2005 team, but I think it's officially time for a chance.

 

Good post. While Carpe is starting to make some ridiculous threads, you can't deny KW being a cancer. It's so hard to judge Hahn's moves with the influence of KW and JR above him. I doubt he has the absolute say in any moves he's made so far, for the most part. For all the s*** Hahn gets, he has signed all of our prominent players (Sale, Q, Eaton, Jones) to cheap, team-friendly extensions and drafted much, much better (at least with the top picks) under his tenure. We got Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, Collins. KW would have drafted some raw athletes (Hawkins, Mitchell, Walker)

Edited November 30, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[Dick Allen]

Good post. While Carpe is starting to make some ridiculous threads, you can't deny KW being a cancer. It'sso hard to judge Hahn's moves with the influence of KW and JR above him. I doubt he has the absolute say in any moves he's made so far, for the most part. For all the s*** Hahn gets, he has signed all of our prominent players (Sale, Q, Eaton, Jones) to cheap, team-friendly extensions and drafted much, much better (at least with the top picks) under hia tenure. We got Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, Collins. KW would have drafted some raw athletes (Hawkins, Mitchell, Walker)

It also helps make you look like a genius when your draft pick is top 10. I noticed KW got no credit for drafting Sale. For a cancer and all time bad GM, it's quite the move.

 

And I also don't understand how people can come to the conclusion that JR and KW are idiots and RH is a genius. It's back up QB syndrome. Hahn has been around with probably just as much influence for 15 or 16 years.

[KMule2545]

It also helps make you look like a genius when your draft pick is top 10. I noticed KW got no credit for drafting Sale. For a cancer and all time bad GM, it's quite the move.

 

And I also don't understand how people can come to the conclusion that JR and KW are idiots and RH is a genius. It's back up QB syndrome. Hahn has been around with probably just as much influence for 15 or 16 years.

 

Lol but you don't mention that he picked Jared Mitchell over Mike freaking Trout and passes on Corey Seager for Courtney Hawkins? Sure Sale is a good move. Sure. But maybe his only good draft choice in his entire time as GM. He's had more garbage moves that have hurt us long-term than good ones that allowed us to be consistent contenders - contrary to KW and JR's dreams about that.

 

Hahn clearly has a passive personality if you've ever seen him take a media. KW has the more domineering personality. Besides, KW is his damn boss. Do you think Hahn just has been preaching "long-term, sustainable success" and doing a completely other thing because he wants to? No, because his bosses make him do so.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[caulfield12]

Good post. While Carpe is starting to make some ridiculous threads, you can't deny KW being a cancer. It'sso hard to judge Hahn's moves with the influence of KW and JR above him. I doubt he has the absolute say in any moves he's made so far, for the most part. For all the s*** Hahn gets, he has signed all of our prominent players (Sale, Q, Eaton, Jones) to cheap, team-friendly extensions and drafted much, much better (at least with the top picks) under hia tenure. We got Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, Collins. KW would have drafted some raw athletes (Hawkins, Mitchell, Walker)

 

Anderson was the definition of a raw athlete and started as a basketball player.

 

You can't blame KW for Hawkins and then credit Hahn for Anderson...and you're not mentioning Thompson or Semien, either.

 

Which teams with mid-range budgets haven't done the exact same? The Indians more than the White Sox, for example. And calling Jones prominent is pushing it.

 

Plus KW is the one who traded Jones, Addison Reed, Hector Santiago in later rounds.

 

Fulmer hasn't proven much, and Walker was the first pick that year but wasn't close to a Top 10-15 selection. Mitchell got hurt seriously, but obviously he didn't pan out in the end.

[Kyyle23]

Lol but you don't mention that he picked Jared Mitchell over Mike freaking Trout and passes on Corey Seager for Courtney Hawkins? Sure Sale is a good move. Sure. But maybe his only good draft choice in his entire time as GM. He's had more garbage moves that have hurt us long-term than good ones that allowed us to be consistent contenders - contrary to KW and JR's dreams about that.

 

Hahn clearly has a passive personality if you've ever seen him take a media. KW has the more domineering personality. Besides, KW is his damn boss. Do you think Hahn just has been preaching "long-term, sustainable success" and doing a completely other thing because he wants to? No, because his bosses make him do so.

 

24 teams passed on Mike freaking Trout, lets not act like this is picking Sam Bowie over Jordan in the top 3

[KMule2545]

Anderson was the definition of a raw athlete and started as a basketball player.

 

You can't blame KW for Hawkins and then credit Hahn for Anderson...and you're not mentioning Thompson or Semien, either.

 

Which teams with mid-range budgets haven't done the exact same? The Indians more than the White Sox, for example. And calling Jones prominent is pushing it.

 

Plus KW is the one who traded Jones, Addison Reed, Hector Santiago in later rounds.

 

Fulmer hasn't proven much, and Walker was the first pick that year but wasn't close to a Top 10-15 selection. Mitchell got hurt seriously, but obviously he didn't pan out in the end.

 

Yeah except Anderson had the personality and wherewithal to pan. None of the raw athletes panned for KW.

 

Why would i mention Thompson and Semien, when I stated that i was talking about top draft choices? Neither were our #1 draft pick. And honestly, neither of them is anything special at this point. Solid ball players, sure. Every team gets solid ballplayers after the 1st round. It's about hitting where you need to hit. KW never did besides Sale.

 

The Addison Reed trade was a bad trade considering the year Reed just had. He would still be under our control. It's a wash at best.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[KMule2545]

24 teams passed on Mike freaking Trout, lets not act like this is picking Sam Bowie over Jordan in the top 3

 

Yeah, but then he got picked immediately after we picked. There's a big difference. It's not like Trout was a 3rd rounder and I'm saying this. We had him right in our grasp for the taking.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[flavum]

You can cherry pick every team this way. Every executive is going to have some wins. Bottom line, good job in 05...that team worked out. Since then, while trying to win, it's been a bad situation. Without 05 under his belt, he would have been gone a long time ago.

[Dick Allen]

Lol but you don't mention that he picked Jared Mitchell over Mike freaking Trout and passes on Corey Seager for Courtney Hawkins? Sure Sale is a good move. Sure. But maybe his only good draft choice in his entire time as GM. He's had more garbage moves that have hurt us long-term than good ones that allowed us to be consistent contenders - contrary to KW and JR's dreams about that.

 

Hahn clearly has a passive personality if you've ever seen him take a media. KW has the more domineering personality. Besides, KW is his damn boss. Do you think Hahn just has been preaching "long-term, sustainable success" and doing a completely other thing because he wants to? No, because his bosses make him do so.

He hasn't drafted well. But several geniuses passed on Trout and Seager and Sale.