Legitimate chance of Sale trade to #Nationals per Rosenthal

[bmags]

There are still packages out there I would take without a true untouchable. The Nationals could build something around Giolito, Robles, & Lopez. The Astros could build something around Martes, Reed, & Tucker. Obviously I'd prefer getting a package headlined by a Bregman or Benintendi, and would push hard for it if I was Hahn, but the packages mentioned above would still be wins for us IMO. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this one though.

 

No I'm with you. Problem it requires great scouting by white Sox to hit on the right next level quantity package.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think All-Star is an understatement...the numbers he put up last year are HOF type numbers. Obviously I get it's just a half season, but that kind of speed and power, along with that type of batting average is pretty unheard of. Say he comes down to earth and becomes a 12-18 homer guy...if he hits .315 with 40-50 SB for the next several years...that's Rickey Henderson-esque.

I'm uneasy saying anyone has HOF potential, but he definitely has a super-star ceiling with a dynamic lead-off hitter floor, which is why I seriously doubt the Nationals would give him up.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

There are still packages out there I would take without a true untouchable. The Nationals could build something around Giolito, Robles, & Lopez. The Astros could build something around Martes, Reed, & Tucker. Obviously I'd prefer getting a package headlined by a Bregman or Benintendi, and would push hard for it if I was Hahn, but the packages mentioned above would still be wins for us IMO. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this one though.

 

 

Honestly, no thanks. I'll keep Sale if those are the packages.

[Chicago White Sox]

Yes, I wish more fans thought this way. We all want this rebuild to commence immediately and with a bang, but trading him next season is certainly an option. It's not now or never. It's now or anytime during the next year give or take.

The problem is there's no reason to think his value will ever be higher than it right now. And by holding him, you take on the risk of injury and squandering your most valuable asset. You obviously don't give him away if the offers are ridiculously low for some strange reason, but you also can't be overly stubborn and refuse to off your initial asking price.

[SoxAce]

I don't think the HRs are legit, but the rest of his game appears to be. We're talking about a potential All-Star SS or CF and it could happen in the very near future. I would expect some regression/struggles next year, which is the only reason they may consider trading him, but personally I think his ceiling & floor are both too high to move.

 

You guys see him more as a CF, SS or 2B? Defensive metrics heavily favors him at 2B although his athleticism plays better as a SS and can definitely be decent at CF too.

[Chicago White Sox]

Honestly, no thanks. I'll keep Sale if those are the packages.

And do what exactly? What would your plan be? Tough talk is great until you end up with a far worse result.

 

And I think some of you guys are crazy. That Nationals package would be the #4, #13, & #48 prospects on BA's mid-season top 100 list. The Astros package would include the #29 & #35 on their mid-season list and the #11 from their pre-season list. I'd need other pieces, including at least one more top 100 type from the Astros (Musgrove, Paulino, etc), but the foundation for a good trade is there. People here are in for a world of disappointment when Sale finally gets moved.

[NCsoxfan]

The problem is there's no reason to think his value will ever be higher than it right now. And by holding him, you take on the risk of injury and squandering your most valuable asset. You obviously don't give him away if the offers are ridiculously low for some strange reason, but you also can't be overly stubborn and refuse to off your initial asking price.

 

I disagree. His value is determined in part by how desperate a team is to deal for an ace. When the A's dealt Russell was Shark's value at an all time high? So we don't know the situation at mid year. Maybe Benintendi, Turner and others cool off and the teams realized the need too quality pitching. We just don't know, but it's incorrect reasoning to think his value could not be higher

[Chicago White Sox]

You guys see him more as a CF, SS or 2B? Defensive metrics heavily favors him at 2B although his athleticism plays better as a SS and can definitely be decent at CF too.

I think he's a SS, but has the tools to be a good CF. I know the metrics liked his defense at 2B, but seems like it would be a waste of his athleticism.

[Chicago White Sox]

I disagree. His value is determined in part by how desperate a team is to deal for an ace. When the A's dealt Russell was Shark's value at an all time high? So we don't know the situation at mid year. Maybe Benintendi, Turner and others cool off and the teams realized the need too quality pitching. We just don't know, but it's incorrect reasoning to think his value could not be higher

I said there is no reason to think it will be higher, not that it couldn't. You're right, the fact is we don't know for sure. What we do know is Sale will definitely have less control and there is a strong possibility of there being more sellers and ultimately other SP alternatives than there are now given how bad this market is. You definitely don't have to move Sale right now, but you're taking a huge gamble that that unforeseen circumstances take place that result in a better package. I think that's a fool's bet, especially when you consider the unnecessary injury risk you're taking on and the opportunity cost of delaying the rebuild another year.

[NCsoxfan]

I said there is no reason to think it will be higher, not that it couldn't. You're right, the fact is we don't know for sure. What we do know is Sale will definitely have less control and there is a strong possibility of there being more sellers and ultimately other SP alternatives than there are now given how bad this market is. You definitely don't have to move Sale right now, but you're taking a huge gamble that that unforeseen circumstances take place that result in a better package. I think that's a fool's bet, especially when you consider the unnecessary injury risk you're taking on and the opportunity cost of delaying the rebuild another year.

 

I hear you. At some point a line has to be drawn, and it's not an easy decision.

[caulfield12]

What are the odds that Sale lowers his value (pitching in an impossible situation where wins and losses don't matter) or, even worse, gets injured?

 

How can we calculate the cost to have guys like Eaton and Sale knowing they have no chance at a playoff spot...and how that will affect other players (mood/attitude/chemistry/clubhouse environment) we might be bringing in? Not to mention Renteria wanting to put his own imprint on the young players from the very beginning.

 

Hard to calculate, but that's a real thing as well.

[greg775]

What are the odds that Sale lowers his value (pitching in an impossible situation where wins and losses don't matter) or, even worse, gets injured?

 

How can we calculate the cost to have guys like Eaton and Sale knowing they have no chance at a playoff spot...and how that will affect other players (mood/attitude/chemistry/clubhouse environment) we might be bringing in? Not to mention Renteria wanting to put his own imprint on the young players from the very beginning.

 

Hard to calculate, but that's a real thing as well.

I think a good GM could have dealt some of these guys to contenders before the trade deadline and got way more than they're going to get now. No excuse for not trading Robertson, Melky, Avi, Frazier, our catchers, Nate Jones, Duke last season. Hope we can get a bundle of can't miss prospects for Sale this winter.

[Southwest Sider]

I'm starting to become okay with the idea of obtaining a plethora of great prospects AA and under in lieu of receiving a teams absolute best prospect. It helps to remember that we're dealing with teams who have done a fantastic job of developing players. I could still see the Astros parting with Bregman in a deal, but the rest of the suitors that are out there, it just seems like they're married to their #1 prospect. A lot of these guys have graduated anyway, and it might be better for the Sox to grab players who are still 1-2 years away to maximize any new window of opportunity they might create. Unless the Sox plan on competing next year (which they very well might), it makes no sense to be wasting years of a Benitendi or a Turner on teams that are still a few years from competing. As awesome as it would be to have one of those guys, instead get the guys who are going to be the next "untouchables" in 1 or 2 years.

 

Hopefully the posturing by all the teams will lead to a deal like this. Hahn and all the other teams sticking to their guns, and finally Hahn says "well fine, if we can't get X player, I want A B C and Y Z players." It should seem more "reasonable" to the other teams. Should be a fun week here, everyone. Fasten your seat belts for drama central...

[Bigsoxhurt35]

And do what exactly? What would your plan be? Tough talk is great until you end up with a far worse result.

 

And I think some of you guys are crazy. That Nationals package would be the #4, #13, & #48 prospects on BA's mid-season top 100 list. The Astros package would include the #29 & #35 on their mid-season list and the #11 from their pre-season list. I'd need other pieces, including at least one more top 100 type from the Astros (Musgrove, Paulino, etc), but the foundation for a good trade is there. People here are in for a world of disappointment when Sale finally gets moved.

 

 

I'm not giving the second best LHP in baseball away. It's just that simple.

[Chicago White Sox]

So now the rumors are that the Nationals view Robles as an untouchable as well, at least in talks for McCutchen. They have no chance of landing Sale (let alone him & McCutchen) if he's off-limits. Again, seems like posturing to me with Rizzo saving Robles to be that last piece to push an offer over the top.

[Bob Sacamano]

So now the rumors are that the Nationals view Robles as an untouchable as well, at least in talks for McCutchen. They have no chance of landing Sale (let alone him & McCutchen) if he's off-limits. Again, seems like posturing to me with Rizzo saving Robles to be that last piece to push an offer over the top.

 

Yeah I only read that he's off the table for McCutchen. He has to be in talks for Sale if they are unwilling to move Turner. Every young guy on their roster would have to be on the table.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I'm actually coming around to a pitching based package from Washington. They can always trade the pitching later. According to mlb.com Giolito is the #3 prospect in baseball and Robles is #10. Reynaldo Lopez is #37 and Eric Fedde is #75. Give me all of them at 3B Carter Kieboom and I probably do it. I'm still high on Giolito though. He's the best pitching project in baseball. Legit 80 fastball and 70 Curveball with 55 command. He's an ace. Also have CF Andrew Stevenson and RHP Joe Ross. They can get it done.

[Dick Allen]

I would be leery of Robles. I get that he is 19 and held his own in high A (but shouldn't a top 10 prospect do that), but he hasn't hit with any power, doesn't walk much, and has an OBP inflated by getting HBP 34 times. He is going to require some development, something the White Sox haven't shown they are particularly good at the past several years.

[Chicago White Sox]

If they can't develop guys as good as Robles, then the organization is f***ed anyway and it doesn't really matter.

Exactly, we don't have another choice here. At some point we have to figure out how to develop positional talent.

[Chicago White Sox]

Sale and Jennings for Ross, Giolito, Robles, Fedde, Lopez, and Kieboom

 

Who says no?

I think they say no. Remove Ross and maybe you have something there.

[Dick Allen]

Exactly, we don't have another choice here. At some point we have to figure out how to develop positional talent.

Sure, but the more Someome looks at it, the more they could come to the conclusion Robles ranking as a prospect may be a bit high.

[GreenSox]

I see that Olney wrote an article this morning that would seem to have the effect of devaluing Sale, if articles written by national sportswriters have such effect.

Edited December 5, 2016 by GreenSox

[Dick Allen]

These rival evaluators said the same thing in 2010, and passed on drafting him.

[Y2Jimmy0]

These rival evaluators said the same thing in 2010, and passed on drafting him.

 

 

People thought he was unsignable and some thought he was a reliever.

[shakes]

Sure, but the more Someome looks at it, the more they could come to the conclusion Robles ranking as a prospect may be a bit high.

 

You have to do some research on him, he is lauded for his strike zone knowledge and two strike approach, at such a young age. He has a 70 grade arm and speed, and he applies them with instincts in CF. This is a guy if you don't get on the way up, in a year or two will be the type of player that the Nats will say is off limits.

 

Giolito was universally a top five prospect last year, and by many accounts the top pitching prospect. These two guys headlining a package for Sale is exactly what the Sox should be looking for.