Legitimate chance of Sale trade to #Nationals per Rosenthal

[Chicago White Sox]

I dont know whats more entertaining the actual trade banter or the panic screams from the tin foil hats.

 

OMG HE WENT 0-4 IN HIS FIRST GAME. CUT HIM.

I can't believe someone would actually write-off the #4 prospect in baseball because of four bad starts. It's just so f***ing ridiculous.

[Dunt]

He was a 19 year old in High A this year. He maintained an excellent OBP, BB%, and K% despite being very young for the level. He absolutely dominated low A in his time there. The kid is a stud.

[KMule2545]

I do see that now. However, he still only put up a .741 OPS in his 3rd MiLB season, which does not scream "franchise altering" in the least.

 

I still hate this as a suggested return for a Cy Young contender, particularly give his age and surplus value.

 

He put up a .741 OPS in 41 games at high A in 2016. He put up an .864 in 64 games in A ball, also in 2016. Most high school prospects don't touch high A by age 19. Let alone go through a complete 180 culture change and going to a new country with a new language you don't speak.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[Two-Gun Pete]

Real talk, but can anyone name a single trade where a team got two top 10-15 prospects? There's only been a handful of these guys moved in the past decade, so I seriously doubt it's ever happened. Therefore, getting two top 10-15 prospects would pretty much be unprecedented. And despite that, people b**** these guys aren't appropriate centerpieces.

This is a fair question, but at the same time, can anyone point out a 4-5 WAR SP being traded in his age 28 season, with 3 years of control and $150MM+ in surplus value?

 

There is still a premium to be paid by the Nats, even if you trust that a prospect with a.741 OPS isn't actually a suspect.

 

We can agree, that trading Sale is every bit as unprecedented as is shipping more than 1 top 10 out the door.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Two-Gun Pete

[Chicago White Sox]

Trading a Chris Sale is also unprecedented

So an unprecedented trade chip yields an unprecedented return and yet half the posters here are acting like spoiled little brats who didn't get a Playstation VR for Christmas. Some of you guys need to reset expectations if you think two top 10 prospects is a s***ty start to a Sale deal.

[caulfield12]

Let's equate Robles to Sammy Sosa, and Giolito to Wilson Alvarez, just for argument's sake.

How much more is Sale worth now than Harold Baines (a DH) was back in the late 1980's?

 

In the end, the only thing that matters is that both players make it and are All-Star contributors or just below. Both would really have to make it, if the 3rd/4th pieces aren't significant or high risk/bust rate types. And you'd have to be 100% confident Giolito's TJS will hold up with his mechanics/delivery (calling PTAC analysis) going forward.

 

You can make an argument that Giolito could put up a higher WAR in 6-7 years than Sale in 3, but that's not going to be worth very much in terms of improving the future of the White Sox franchise if Robles is a bust or ends up more like Buxton (so far) or Cameron Maybin (2-3 WAR) than, let's say, Adam Eaton.

 

That said, the potential of a game-changing outfield talent with 4+ tools is extremely exciting (granted, you can argue Eaton's close already)...but the bust rate on those guys is particularly high, if you were to go through the last 20-30 of BA Top 100's and look at all the "five tool" players (especially outfielders) and assess how many of them actually put it all together as players and realized their immense potential.

 

[Real]

Real talk, but can anyone name a single trade where a team got two top 10-15 prospects? There's only been a handful of these guys moved in the past decade, so I seriously doubt it's ever happened. Therefore, getting two top 10-15 prospects would pretty much be unprecedented. And despite that, people b**** these guys aren't appropriate centerpieces.

 

trading guys like Chris Sale who's paid peanuts for the next three years is also unprecedented.

 

way to look at only one side of the story though

[KMule2545]

There is still a premium to be paid by the Nats, even if you trust that a prospect with a.741 OPS isn't actually a suspect.

 

I'd love to see a list of L-A prospects at age 19 with an OPS that blows you away. I can think of one off the top of my mind, Eloy Jimenez.

 

Edit: before Eloy's .901 OPS this year (breakout year) at age 19 his previous OPS were .746 in 2015 and .635 in 2014.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[Two-Gun Pete]

Before you hurl yourself off the Dan-Ryan, just know only 2 other teams can provide a base package of TWO top 10 prospects in all of baseball.

 

Nats - Giolito #3, Robles #10

Red Sox - Moncada #1, Benintendi #5

Pirates - Glasnow #8, Meadows #9

 

This isn't some s*** package, halfway through the rumored offering.

Of the three, the Nats pair have the most downside risk, given Robles' relative distance from The Show, and Giolito's injury history.

 

We're talking about trading away Chris Sale, not some average Joe. Take the Shelby Miller return, and add more to that ti get to a starting point. Anything less is an insult.

[Chicago White Sox]

I do see that now. However, he still only put up a .741 OPS in his 3rd MiLB season, which does not scream "franchise altering" in the least.

 

I still hate this as a suggested return for a Cy Young contender, particularly give his age and surplus value.

There is so much wrong with this post it actually makes me angry just reading it.

[soxforlife05]

Don't like the Nats prospects. If the deal is completed as rumored I am going on record that this trade will be the end of the Hahn/KW show.

 

We need positional prospects not pitchers. Their organization doesn't have one hitter I can point to besides Turner who is a must have.

 

If we are trading Sale for only prospects now wait until the trade deadline again.

 

I would be so pumped as a Nats fan what a no brainer steal of a deal.

Edited December 6, 2016 by soxforlife05

[Jerksticks]

I think Turner, Giolito & Robles actually represents fair. Nats get a 10-15 win upgrade, Sox get some nice pieces. Sox still might end up losing that trade 5 years from now.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Jerksticks

[Panerista]

The amount of stupid in this thread is truly unbelievable.

You're about as useful as the White Sox scouting department.

[caulfield12]

Let's be honest.

 

The real problem is that we've been so conditioned to reading packages ever since July where 4-7 players come back for Sale that there's the psychological reflex to think we're getting the short end of the bargain.

 

Especially those examples from the Red Sox, Dodgers and Astros.

 

So if we're "only" getting three players and the 3rd isn't one that everyone had their hearts set on (another "untouchable" as the 3rd piece), then a lot of people will get very upset because many were expecting Moncada or Benintendi/Devers/Kopech or Groome or Bellinger/Alvarez/Verdugo/Calhoun+ (Puig), etc.

 

You can have a huge number of players acquired, like White Flag, and only Foulke and Howry had much of an impact after Caruso's initially fairly promising rookie year. You can be the typical Cubs' fan and think that including 5-7 prospects rated 8-24 in your system is someone magically a formula to acquire nearly any player on the planet.

 

 

 

 

[Real]

For Sale, you basically need to make the team trading for him feel as if they still lost something. Yeah their prospects are ranked highly but those are still subjective rankings on PROSPECTS. Sale is already known to be: Elite, and Cheap

 

those two criteria alone make whoever you're asking for in return a must have or you hang up the damn phone. IMO their top 3 prospects (remember they are fking prospects, not even for sure MLB talent)

[KMule2545]

Don't like the Nats prospects. If the deal is completed as rumored I am going on record that this trade will be the end of the Hahn/KW show.

 

We need positional prospects not pitchers. Their organization doesn't have one hitter I can point to besides Turner who is a must have.

 

If we are trading Sale for only prospects now wait until the trade deadline again.

 

I would be so pumped as a Nats fan what a no brainer steal of a deal.

 

We need pitchers too, who are you kidding. We have two good SP prospects in Hansen and Adams. 3 if you consider Fulmer a future SP.

 

[Jake]

Giolito is a MLB pitcher. Yes he had a poopy ~30 innings in MLB last year, but he also dominated AAA as a 21 year old. He's not a perfect prospect but has ace upside and has little left to prove in the minor leagues. We're not talking about some guy who you'll never see in a Sox uniform. Robles, of course, has a substantially higher risk of never reaching the majors due to his age and experience. With that said, he has a skillset that makes him a quite low risk for a 19 year old and for a player with no AA experience.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Of the three, the Nats pair have the most downside risk, given Robles' relative distance from The Show, and Giolito's injury history.

 

We're talking about trading away Chris Sale, not some average Joe. Take the Shelby Miller return, and add more to that ti get to a starting point. Anything less is an insult.

 

So because you prefer the OTHER pairing of top 2 prospects (which aren't even available to us), therefor Giolito and Robles are s***? I'm convinced you are going to hate to trade no matter what the outcome is, because you hate the Nats 2 best prospects.

[soxforlife05]

We need pitchers too, who are you kidding. We have two good SP prospects in Hansen and Adams. 3 if you consider Fulmer a future SP.

 

Q and Rodon as TOR starters. We only need to come up with 1 more front line caliber starter. Our system will come up with the rest in a few yrs

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I think Turner, Giolito & Robles actually represents fair. Nats get a 10-15 win upgrade, Sox get some nice pieces. Sox still might end up losing that trade 5 years from now.

 

Sale adds 10-15 wins to their team?? Uh...what?

[Jake]

In spite of the current state of the rumor mill, I'd love to see Anderson, Turner, and Eaton batting one after another in some order. Would be an amount of speed in a lineup you don't see often, especially in Chicago

[southsideirish71]

[Chicago White Sox]

You're about as useful as the White Sox scouting department.

Hey look, it's everyone's favorite Cubs troll coming in to stir the pot! Just what this thread was lacking!

[KMule2545]

Q and Rodon as TOR starters. We only need to come up with 1 more front line caliber starter. Our system will come up with the rest in a few yrs

 

If we truly rebuild you can expect Q to get traded. If we aren't yet competing in 2-3 years you can expect Rodon to be moved as well. How many guys are gonna get injured too? Bust? You need to be 7-10 pitching prospects deep.

[username]

We need pitchers too, who are you kidding. We have two good SP prospects in Hansen and Adams. 3 if you consider Fulmer a future SP.

 

Yeah I don't get the myth that we have this elite rotation and stable of incoming pitchers. We actually have a huge black hole at 5th starter, and we're relying on Miggy Gonzalez to continue on a career year.

 

If anything, a lack of starting depth has been nearly as detrimental to this team as a lack of position players. Last year was the same; Shark and Danks were flat out bad. You can win as a pitching focused team, and even win the World Series. But you're not a very good pitching team if you have 2-3 great pitchers and filler behind it.