Red Sox acquire Chris Sale, White Sox get Moncada+

[KMule2545]

Is that a quote of what he said?

 

I was just relaying what another poster said last night. Supposedly he said it on a radio show.

[southsider2k5]

I wonder if the Sox had the option to take on the rest of Moncada's signing bonus along with taking on another player.

 

My gut says probably not though.

 

Just a guess? No. If you have other teams picking up players with large bonuses left that aren't being paid by the signing team, it seems like a way to circumvent the caps. By having another team already over the cap do the signing, and then the new team do all of the payments on the player. The second team never loses their signing ability versus the first team that already has. For example...

 

Team A signs $20 million in players under a $5 million cap. Team B only spends $4 of its $5 million allotment. Team A loses their rights to sign players for two years, while Team B gets no penalty. Team B works out a deal with Team A to sign a $30 million dollar player, and they choose the option to spread the bonus out over three years. Team B sends a package of players to Team A for the player, and then picks up the rest of the payments, maybe even kicking cash as a part of the deal.

 

Team B still doesn't get the signing penalty, while getting the guy they wanted internationally all along.

[southsider2k5]

Kopech's stock has really risen. Heyman had a tweet that one team put Moncada's worth at $100 million, and put Kopech's at $100 million

 

I think there is no doubt we are buying on the highs for both Moncada and Kopech. Let's hope their stock keeps rallying with some actual performance.

[Steve9347]

Retweeted Daryl Van Schouwen (@CST_soxvan):

 

Sale on his time with White Sox: "It didn't work. I really wish it did. I look forward to the next chapter."

What really didn't work was the dumbass contract he signed. Worked for us, though!

 

Man, it's weird. Sale was super duper dominant, but I never really liked the guy. Hopefully he finds a groove in Boston and gets the recognition he deserved, but a divorce at this point for the haul we got works quite well for me.

[Steve9347]

I think there is no doubt we are buying on the highs for both Moncada and Kopech. Let's hope their stock keeps rallying with some actual performance.

It seems a huge majority of scouts think Kopech is the real-deal. There was a fine gentleman on the Score yesterday who said he's easily a top 5 SP spect in the entire game.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

http://nesn.com/2016/12/chris-sale-raves-a...hing-at-fenway/

 

I'll be rooting for him. He'll always be one of my favorites.

[southsider2k5]

What really didn't work was the dumbass contract he signed. Worked for us, though!

 

Man, it's weird. Sale was super duper dominant, but I never really liked the guy. Hopefully he finds a groove in Boston and gets the recognition he deserved, but a divorce at this point for the haul we got works quite well for me.

 

Yeah, Sale wasn't going to win you over with his personality. I loved the heart and soul the guy has, but at the same time that has also been his biggest detriment too. He really reminds me of an old school pitcher. Someone who would have pitched in Hawk's day, throwing at hitters heads for running too slowly around the bases etc.

 

One thing you can never doubt is the dudes TWTW.

[southsider2k5]

It seems a huge majority of scouts think Kopech is the real-deal. There was a fine gentleman on the Score yesterday who said he's easily a top 5 SP spect in the entire game.

 

I have no doubt he is the type of guy you are thrilled to get as the #2 piece in a deal. But there is a non-zero chance that his value is never higher than it is today.

[Soxbadger]

What really didn't work was the dumbass contract he signed. Worked for us, though!

 

Man, it's weird. Sale was super duper dominant, but I never really liked the guy. Hopefully he finds a groove in Boston and gets the recognition he deserved, but a divorce at this point for the haul we got works quite well for me.

 

After the Drake Laroche incident, I just really stopped caring about Sale. After the uniform cutting incident, I realized that Sale just had to go.

 

[Chisoxfn]

I don't dislike Moncada and Kopech. They are leaving themselves no margin for error by the deal being heavily front loaded and Moncada and Kopech have not proven anything above AA. The other two are lotto tickets. The bust potential with this trade in particular is much higher than it should be given we just gave up a perennial all star pitcher on a cheap deal. The front office has not earned the benefit of doubt given recent trade results.

I agree with this. This is a riskier deal than I thought we would end up getting. I figured we'd go more for a deal centered around lots of above average prospects vs. two higher end prospects and then a couple feelers. Puts a lot more pressure on the top two guys to produce. In general though, if it is part of a bigger strategy that ultimately brings a lot of overall talent back to the organization, then I think it makes sense. In isolation, I have extremely mixed feelings on the deal, despite obviously liking Kopech and Moncada a ton.

[Chisoxfn]

Kopech's stock has really risen. Heyman had a tweet that one team put Moncada's worth at $100 million, and put Kopech's at $100 million

They both clearly have a lot of upside.

[KMule2545]

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/6/1...abe-victor-diaz

 

Here's Sickels' take on the trade. He's very high on Kopech.

[Soxbadger]

I agree with this. This is a riskier deal than I thought we would end up getting. I figured we'd go more for a deal centered around lots of above average prospects vs. two higher end prospects and then a couple feelers. Puts a lot more pressure on the top two guys to produce. In general though, if it is part of a bigger strategy that ultimately brings a lot of overall talent back to the organization, then I think it makes sense. In isolation, I have extremely mixed feelings on the deal, despite obviously liking Kopech and Moncada a ton.

 

Fortunately (or unfortunately) what the Sox did was exactly what they had to do. If this is a "real" rebuild, then the Sox arent going to be competitive for years, which is part of the problem with trading for guys who are in MLB or near MLB. You end up wasting 2-3 years service time just getting "competitive" and then by then the window is already closing.

 

So the best thing to do is to get high end prospects who are at least 1, but hopefully 2/3 years out. That way when they come up you are looking at 5-6 years of control, instead of 2-3.

 

The downside of this is that guys who are 2-3 years out are much less predictable. Moncada and Kopech are about as high end of prospects that you can get in the same deal. Not going to say that its "fair" value for Sale, because value is dependent on the market and at least for this year, it seems to be the "best" value.

 

I really believe if Sale didnt burn some bridges last year the Sox would have been more willing to hold out and take a risk of seeing what develops around the trade deadline. But given what happened last year, there was some additional risk of keeping him.

[Dick Allen]

If you are acquiring prospects, I see no less riskier acquisition than the one ranked #1 in the league.

[Black_Jack29]

After the Drake Laroche incident, I just really stopped caring about Sale. After the uniform cutting incident, I realized that Sale just had to go.

 

It'll be interesting to see what gets leaked about Sale in the coming months.

 

Sale needs to tread lightly in Boston, or the media there will tear him a new one.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

It'll be interesting to see what gets leaked about Sale in the coming months.

 

Sale needs to tread lightly in Boston, or the media there will tear him a new one.

 

To be honest, I am mildly surprised that we haven't had a Sale meltdown.

[iamshack]

It'll be interesting to see what gets leaked about Sale in the coming months.

 

Sale needs to tread lightly in Boston, or the media there will tear him a new one.

Not if he performs.

Edited December 7, 2016 by iamshack

[Harry Chappas]

I hate hearing that these guys have "upside" just becasue the White Sox do not seem to ever get the guy to that upside. Hopefully I am just overly negative.

[Dick Allen]

Supposedly the Red Sox vetted Sale pretty thoroughly.

 

Much to the apparent dismay of many here, his ex-teammates don't consider him a monster. Merkin was defending him on Twitter from someone who said Sale was an idiot.

 

Besides if Sale is so awful due for a meltdown, what is Kopech?

Edited December 7, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Hatchetman]

waaaa Chris Sale was a big meanie, he can't be my friend anymore....waaaa....

[flavum]

Nobody thought Sale was bad in the clubhouse with teammates. He just hates authority.

[LittleHurt05]

Supposedly the Red Sox vetted Sale pretty thoroughly.

 

Much to the apparent dismay of many here, his ex-teammates don't consider him a monster. Merkin was defending him on Twitter from someone who said Sale was an idiot.

 

Besides if Sale is so awful due for a meltdown, what is Kopech?

 

Which ex-teammates and what did they say? Sources? What were the Red Sox standards when they vetted him thoroughly? He's a top 5 pitcher in all of baseball, they aren't gonna demand him to a be a quiet little boy scout. Just because they traded for him, doesn't mean he had no skeletons in the closet from the Cell, they just weren't enough to not take a risk to win the World Series.

[Chisoxfn]

Supposedly the Red Sox vetted Sale pretty thoroughly.

 

Much to the apparent dismay of many here, his ex-teammates don't consider him a monster. Merkin was defending him on Twitter from someone who said Sale was an idiot.

 

Besides if Sale is so awful due for a meltdown, what is Kopech?

Sale will be loved in Boston. His attitude and personality is everything you want out of a guy on a top notch ball club. I think they will love him in Boston and he will do fantastic. This could be better then when they got Pedro.

[Black_Jack29]

Not if he performs.

 

If he's a headcase in the clubhouse (again), but performs, that's fine. But if he fails to adjust his attitude and has bad outing in October, the Boston media will be all over him.

 

I hope that Sale uses his time in Chicago as a learning experience and takes advantage of his fresh start.

 

[Dick Allen]

Which ex-teammates and what did they say? Sources? What were the Red Sox standards when they vetted him thoroughly? He's a top 5 pitcher in all of baseball, they aren't gonna demand him to a be a quiet little boy scout. Just because they traded for him, doesn't mean he had no skeletons in the closet from the Cell, they just weren't enough to not take a risk to win the World Series.

The article I read said they questioned many ex teammates about him, and the response was all positive.