Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[iamshack]

Assuming there are no stupid signings in the next couple years...they might realistically have 70-90 million to spend on free agents in 2019/2020. A 7-9 year mega deal for a 26 year old prime Machado might end up fitting perfectly if a good chuck of these guys pan out.

Especially considering you are going to want that anchor type of veteran to come in and provide stability and credibility to attract other free agents. You absolutely want to target at least one guy like that.

[Quin]

Especially considering you are going to want that anchor type of veteran to come in and provide stability and credibility to attract other free agents. You absolutely want to target at least one guy like that.

 

I think with Moncada now here, Abreu will be staying as an elder statesman and assume a Konerko role. Could help with recruiting if he produces.

[jenksycat]

I think with Moncada now here, Abreu will be staying as an elder statesman and assume a Konerko role. Could help with recruiting if he produces.

 

By the time we're ready to recruit anyone he will be a FA. If we can get a decent return, gonzo

[caulfield12]

I can tell you one thing for sure. I will be watching less baseball this year than I have in any season probably since Robin Ventura left Chicago as a free agent. I have not been nearly this bitter with the White Sox since that specific day. I had thought about Soxfest after getting a nice bonus this quarter, and there is no way I am spending $500 to do that now.

 

Fair enough.

 

It's hard to see three assets like Sale (especially), Eaton and Q go out the door...and nothing other than 2012 to show for it.

 

Sale was a homegrown superstar, and the best White Sox pitcher in decades. That said, as many others have mentioned, there was clearly a desire on the part of Hahn to move on from those two guys are THE leaders and move on to the next generation of Sox baseball with seemingly a completely fresh start, including a new manager.

 

There are no guarantees of success, but the AL Central is setting up really well for the Sox in that 2019-22/23 window. Of course, the caveat being is that it's all ON PAPER.

 

The one thing that gives me hope is that if you look back to that championship team, not much of it was a direct product of having the best farm system in baseball in 2000, other than Mark Buehrle, Garland and a very young Joe Crede. A lot of the key pieces bombed or were traded (Rauch/Borchard/K.Wells/Fogg/Ginter/Wright/Borcelo/later Reed). It certainly didn't work out compared to the Cubs' 2014-15 BA Top 10 lists.

 

And all that said, they were still able to compete for a championship with a "medium-sized" payroll. But the timing had to be perfect to get Dye off an injury, AJ with his clubhouse issues, Iguchi without even scouting him in person, Everett (character issues), Garcia (largely due to Ozzie connection and their farm system) and especially Contreras, who was pure luck in the sense that a flier on Loiaza ended up as the best pitcher in baseball for the last 2 months of 2005 and the first two months of 2006. You had Pods coming off a down 2nd year, a team willing to take Lee's contract, and then all those other "lucky" breaks like Jenks/Hermanson/Politte/Cotts coming together after Takatsu faltered.

Edited December 8, 2016 by caulfield12

[BigHurt3515]

I can tell you one thing for sure. I will be watching less baseball this year than I have in any season probably since Robin Ventura left Chicago as a free agent. I have not been nearly this bitter with the White Sox since that specific day. I had thought about Soxfest after getting a nice bonus this quarter, and there is no way I am spending $500 to do that now.

 

I can't believe you are this upset because we didn't get a couple more hitting prospects even though we are not done selling off right now. We aren't filling holes here, we are getting the best prospects possible for our players and we have done that. We got the best damn hitting prospect in the game and you seem to forget about that because we traded Eaton for the top pitching prospect and another one that is top 40? Come on man, get the hell out of here with that

[Southwest Sider]

8:34pm: The Astros did, in fact, talk to the White Sox about Quintana, but have found the White Sox’ price to be too steep, Jake Kaplan of the Houston Chronicle writes. Kaplan notes that it’s unclear whether the Astros would have to give up Bregman to get Quintana, but notes that he doesn’t want to part with players who could help the Astros next season. “We’re just not prepared to trade away players that are core to our production in 2017, and those are sometimes the players that are required to get these deals done,” says GM Jeff Luhnow.

 

The Braves also asked about Quintana and thought the White Sox’ price was too high, writes David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. The problem seems to be that the Braves don’t feel Quintana is as valuable as Sale was, even though Quintana is controllable for an extra year. “We don’t have needs in starting pitching,” says GM John Coppolella. “Do we want a No. 1 starter, is Chris Sale a No. 1 starter? Yes. Do we want Jose Quintana? I don’t think Jose Quintana is Chris Sale.”

 

Wow how observant of you to notice that Quintana is not Chris Sale, John Coppolella. Duh.

[HeGone7]

I can't believe you are this upset because we didn't get a couple more hitting prospects even though we are not done selling off right now. We aren't filling holes here, we are getting the best prospects possible for our players and we have done that. We got the best damn hitting prospect in the game and you seem to forget about that because we traded Eaton for the top pitching prospect and another one that is top 40? Come on man, get the hell out of here with that

 

I think it's more about where we stand right now.

 

If the plan was to sell everyone I get the frustration. The common feeling was the Sox needed an abundence of positional prospects. If you follow the Cubs, and now the Yankees model, it's acquire as many guys as you can offensively. Sign the pitching.

 

So if you're a saber kind of guy and you're into the secondary statistics, you'd know that Eaton was one of our 3 biggest assets. I say that because if you're old-fashion or a mix, you may argue Abreu is the bigger name/better player. Which is fine. It'd be irrelevent to me for this conversation but it's important to note the difference since it effects how some fans value specific players.

 

The point I'm making is many Sox fans see Eaton as one of our three elite guys to deal. If you say Sale, Q, Eaton are tier 1, and you have dealt two of them w/only 1 hitter to show for it. Yikes. This feels very risky to you in this situation because part of the reason many of us wanted a rebuild is because we don't have the elite hitters coming through. We don't have the Bryant, Scharber, Russell, Baez, etc. So the point of this firesale should've been to get as many high-end hitters you could. With two of your biggest chips gone, hard to imagine they'll accomplish this at the level they could have and needed to.

 

The hope from here would be Q nets a package of hitters. Abreu and Frazier getting one/two would be nice.

 

So I get the frustration "right now" but there is time left for people to come around when we have a finished product. That may take a while, too. On the flipside, there is also a reason to love what we have so I see where both sides have their gripe.

[Chicago White Sox]

Hahn is being smart about this. The Astros are desperate for a TOR starter and the only quality options are Quintana & Archer, who the Rays may be hesitant to trade coming off a poor season. Might as well hold on our ground for a day or two and see if they panic and offer up Bregman. If not, they still have more enough talent to get a deal done IMO. I still think the Astros end up getting him.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Chicago White Sox

[BigHurt3515]

I guess people forget about Luis Basbae who has the potential to have 5 tools? He will have the speed, defense, and power for sure

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'm off to bed. Hope to wake up and see another killer trade or two. Surprised they haven't gotten rid of Frazier yet.

 

I expect Quintana to be moved tomorrow unless it's travel day for these GMs

[HeGone7]

I guess people forget about Luis Basbae who has the potential to have 5 tools? He will have the speed, defense, and power for sure

 

Great upside but far from on the level of Moncada or the level of the arms the Sox got.

 

Tools are great. Production is what counts.

[Dam8610]

I think it's more about where we stand right now.

 

If the plan was to sell everyone I get the frustration. The common feeling was the Sox needed an abundence of positional prospects. If you follow the Cubs, and now the Yankees model, it's acquire as many guys as you can offensively. Sign the pitching.

 

So if you're a saber kind of guy and you're into the secondary statistics, you'd know that Eaton was one of our 3 biggest assets. I say that because if you're old-fashion or a mix, you may argue Abreu is the bigger name/better player. Which is fine. It'd be irrelevent to me for this conversation but it's important to note the difference since it effects how some fans value specific players.

 

The point I'm making is many Sox fans see Eaton as one of our three elite guys to deal. If you say Sale, Q, Eaton are tier 1, and you have dealt two of them w/only 1 hitter to show for it. Yikes. This feels very risky to you in this situation because part of the reason many of us wanted a rebuild is because we don't have the elite hitters coming through. We don't have the Bryant, Scharber, Russell, Baez, etc. So the point of this firesale should've been to get as many high-end hitters you could. With two of your biggest chips gone, hard to imagine they'll accomplish this at the level they could have and needed to.

 

The hope from here would be Q nets a package of hitters. Abreu and Frazier getting one/two would be nice.

 

So I get the frustration "right now" but there is time left for people to come around when we have a finished product. That may take a while, too. On the flipside, there is also a reason to love what we have so I see where both sides have their gripe.

 

It feels fair/right to point out here that the Cubs drafted more of Bryant, Schwarber, Baez, and Russell than they traded for. In fact, they drafted 3 of them and traded for one. All the more reason nailing the 2016-2018 drafts is going to be of extreme importance.

[BigHurt3515]

Great upside but far from on the level of Moncada or the level of the arms the Sox got.

 

Tools are great. Production is what counts.

 

Well yeah, he is the 6th worst prospect we got but he is now our #9 and has the tools to be a good CF in 3 years. We got 2 hitting prospects and really 4 pitching plus a lotto relief ticket.

[chitownsportsfan]

Great upside but far from on the level of Moncada or the level of the arms the Sox got.

 

Tools are great. Production is what counts.

 

Thing is, if this was 2012 Basabe would be a top 5, maybe top 3 prospect in the system. Hell, if it was two days ago he probably is top 3. He might only turn into a Mike Cameron type CF once every 10 times but hey I'll take it.

Edited December 8, 2016 by chitownsportsfan

[Chicago White Sox]

I guess people forget about Luis Basbae who has the potential to have 5 tools? He will have the speed, defense, and power for sure

I think people also forgot how good this past draft class was and that we're finally bearing fruits from our Latin American operations. Our A-Ball outfields will likely consist of Basabe, Call, Fisher, Adolfo, Rodriguez, & Schnurbusch. While none of those guys are top 100 prospects, they collectively represent quite a bit of talent. And there are plenty of other interesting positional prospects in the low minors like Nunez, Cruz, Curbelo, & Zangari. Anyways, my point is simply that the cupboard isn't nearly as barren as some here are making it out to be. Obviously we still need to add some guys who are closer to the show if we want to accelerate this rebuild, but we're finally starting to see some real positional depth in the lower minors.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Chicago White Sox

[caulfield12]

I think people also forgot how good this past draft class was and that we're finally bearing fruits from our Latin American operations. Our A-Ball outfields will likely consist of Basabe, Call, Fisher, Adolfo, Rodriguez, & Schnurbusch. While none of those guys are top 100 prospects, they collectively represent quite a bit of talent. And there are plenty of other interesting positional prospects in the low minors like Nunez, Cruz, Curbelo, & Zangari. Anyways, my point is simply that the cupboard isn't nearly as barren as some here are making it out to be. Obviously we still need to add some guys who are closer to the show if we want to accelerate this rebuild, but we're finally starting to see some real positional depth in the lower minors.

 

Not to mention that all those players will finally have an assembly of talent together on one team, and instead of them being promoted individually...the front office will start thinking more carefully about building a "winning tradition" in the minors and moving them together more strategically, rather than just rushing/challenging them or whatever the system was before. Forcing them to fail so they could deconstruct them later, but that failure creates doubts in the heads of so many young players when they're so used to success. Brian Anderson, for example, could never adjust once the game actually got difficult and more cerebral and less physical at the major league level. (Partying all the time didn't help, either.)

 

This "wave after wave" approach is one that has a lot of merit, and one you could clearly see paying off for teams that had 2-3 "top prospects" bunched together at each level of the organization...those teammates learned how to trust each other, how to play the game in a fundamentally correct way and how to win together, so they weren't just thrown together like the island of misfit toys and expected to gel at the major league level, where coaching/instruction tends to take a back seat and you're thrown directly into the great blue ocean to "sink or swim" without a lifeline.

Edited December 8, 2016 by caulfield12

[KMule2545]

Not to mention that all those players will finally have an assembly of talent together on one team, and instead of them being promoted individually...the front office will start thinking more carefully about building a "winning tradition" in the minors and moving them together more strategically, rather than just rushing/challenging them or whatever the system was before. Forcing them to fail so they could deconstruct them later, but that failure creates doubts in the heads of so many young players when they're so used to success. Brian Anderson, for example, could never adjust once the game actually got difficult and more cerebral and less physical at the major league level. (Partying all the time didn't help, either.)

 

This "wave after wave" approach is one that has a lot of merit, and one you could clearly see paying off for teams that had 2-3 "top prospects" bunched together at each level of the organization...those teammates learned how to trust each other, how to play the game in a fundamentally correct way and how to win together, so they weren't just thrown together like the island of misfit toys and expected to gel at the major league level, where coaching/instruction tends to take a back seat and you're thrown directly into the great blue ocean to "sink or swim" without a lifeline.

 

Good post. I'm hoping they start taking a conservative approach with all of our prospects. Rushing has got us nothing. Promote based on merit, not necessity. And as you said it gives them a chance to win together in the Minors with the hopes of winning at the big leagues together as well.

 

[longshot7]

I can tell you one thing for sure. I will be watching less baseball this year than I have in any season probably since Robin Ventura left Chicago as a free agent. I have not been nearly this bitter with the White Sox since that specific day. I had thought about Soxfest after getting a nice bonus this quarter, and there is no way I am spending $500 to do that now.

 

Really?????

 

I haven't read the rest of this thread, but I came to the site just now because of how excited I am. I don't get it.

I might even buy season tickets because of today and yesterday.

[longshot7]

Keep in mind too that this rebuild is not going to take just one offseason. Can't fix this many mistakes in one year. But with Hahn truly in charge, gotta feel good about the next 2-3.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Keep in mind too that this rebuild is not going to take just one offseason. Can't fix this many mistakes in one year. But with Hahn truly in charge, gotta feel good about the next 2-3.

 

I'm actually hoping we sign a couple FA to 1 or 2 year deals to flip for prospects in July. I feel like if we don't sign anyone, our payroll is going to be like $30M less than last year. Really wanted to see us grab Ramos for that reason.

 

Maybe Boone Logan or Greg Holland can be those options for us, along with a veteran catcher or Pedro Alvarez.

[Bob Sacamano]

Saw on mlbtr that Rockies are looking for bullpen help and another starter. Quintana and Robertson! Get it done!

 

Edit: actually, what could a Q, Robertson and Jennings deal look like?

Edited December 8, 2016 by soxfan2014

[Jordan4life_2007]

Keep in mind too that this rebuild is not going to take just one offseason. Can't fix this many mistakes in one year. But with Hahn truly in charge, gotta feel good about the next 2-3.

 

You'd have to be a full blown dumbass not to know this. It's gonna be rough in '17 and '18 as far as W/L goes. But it's been rough 90% of the time since '05. Come '19? My goodness. This team is gonna be so sick. For the first time in years it feels good to be a Sox fan. What a time to be alive!

[Dick Allen]

Really?????

 

I haven't read the rest of this thread, but I came to the site just now because of how excited I am. I don't get it.

I might even buy season tickets because of today and yesterday.

I get a kick out of the people who say they will go to more games this year. Maybe there is a chance you will but overall people won't. If the teams the last 5 or 6 years were hard to watch, and last year's team was actually really good at home, the 2017 team is going to be hard to stomach. What is compelling about watching Derek Holland give up homers and if the don't leave the yard, watching Avi Garcia chase the down? Nothing. Maybe in a couple of years, but if you thought the baseball was too bad to watch before, it isn't going to be better this year. And I have season tickets.

 

Even Cubs fans stayed away to a certain extent when they did what the Sox are doing.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Dick Allen

[ptatc]

I get a kick out of the people who say they will go to more games this year. Maybe there is a chance you will but overall people won't. If the teams the last 5 or 6 years were hard to watch, and last year's team was actually really good at home, the 2017 team is going to be hard to stomach. What is compelling about watching Derek Holland give up homers and if the don't leave the yard, watching Avi Garcia chase the down? Nothing. Maybe in a couple of years, but if you thought the baseball was too bad to watch before, it isn't going to be better this year. And I have season tickets.

 

Even Cubs fans stayed away to a certain extent when they did what the Sox are doing.

Yeah, its going to be a lean couple of years. But I'll still have my season tickets and enjoy going to the games. It will remind of the late 80's with Danny Pasqua leading the team with 15 hrs and Ivan Calderon (RIP) wandering around the outfield.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I get a kick out of the people who say they will go to more games this year. Maybe there is a chance you will but overall people won't. If the teams the last 5 or 6 years were hard to watch, and last year's team was actually really good at home, the 2017 team is going to be hard to stomach. What is compelling about watching Derek Holland give up homers and if the don't leave the yard, watching Avi Garcia chase the down? Nothing. Maybe in a couple of years, but if you thought the baseball was too bad to watch before, it isn't going to be better this year. And I have season tickets.

 

Even Cubs fans stayed away to a certain extent when they did what the Sox are doing.

 

The team finally has a plan/purpose. I can see people going to more games - even is they are going to lose A LOT initially. For me, even if I go to a game and we lose 12-2, i'm still hype because I know what's coming.