Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[Panerista]

So if Q isn't an ace because he's pitched for a bad team then I guess Sale isn't an ace either?

Sale's a backup punter

[beautox]

Yankees will never do that deal. You're asking for a ~top 10 guy, two top 50 guys and a fringe top 100 guys. Again, the Yankees aren't going to give up more for Quintana than the Red Sox did for Sale.

 

I'm not saying Torres is off limits, but Torres + 3 others including another top 50 guy is not happening. Torres isn't quite Moncada, but he's damn close. So if the Sox are getting him back they are probably only getting a 3 player deal rounded out by a couple low end guys. I'm not opposed to that deal, by the way. The Yankees "low end" guys are pretty damn good. They have better players in their top 50 than the Sox have in their top 30 (perhaps an exaggeration, but the Yankees are truly loaded).

 

Alternatively the Sox could accept a lesser headliner and perhaps get Kapreilian, Mateo or Adams as a second piece.

 

Both scenarios are superior to the rumored Astros package (and I love Kyle Tucker), and I think more than an adequate return for Quintana.

Torres isn't a top 10 guy, maybe by mid season but not yet. Rutherford checks in at #51. Kaprielian is a fringe top 100 and has health questions and Tate's tumbled down the rankings due to his time in Texas. This package may have more "top 100" guys than the Sale deal but lags behind in terms of upside while presenting more depth. If anything this deal is more like the Eaton deal with a tiny bit more tacked on.

[Soxfest]

He's had zero pressure. It's like the pressure of a back up QB vs a starter.

He had zero run support many starts, he has been very good.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Soxfest

[steveno89]

Yankees will never do that deal. You're asking for a ~top 10 guy, two top 50 guys and a fringe top 100 guys. Again, the Yankees aren't going to give up more for Quintana than the Red Sox did for Sale.

 

I'm not saying Torres is off limits, but Torres + 3 others including another top 50 guy is not happening. Torres isn't quite Moncada, but he's damn close. So if the Sox are getting him back they are probably only getting a 3 player deal rounded out by a couple low end guys. I'm not opposed to that deal, by the way. The Yankees "low end" guys are pretty damn good. They have better players in their top 50 than the Sox have in their top 30 (perhaps an exaggeration, but the Yankees are truly loaded).

 

Alternatively the Sox could accept a lesser headliner and perhaps get Kapreilian, Mateo or Adams as a second piece.

 

Both scenarios are superior to the rumored Astros package (and I love Kyle Tucker), and I think more than an adequate return for Quintana.

 

If I can't get Torres + Frazier plus at least one more prospect I am not sure there is a Yankees package that would make sense

 

Torres is a very good prospect, but he is not on the level of Moncada.

[Con te Giolito]

If I can't get Torres + Frazier plus at least one more prospect I am not sure there is a Yankees package that would make sense

 

Torres is a very good prospect, but he is not on the level of Moncada.

And Quintana is a very good pitcher, he is not on the level of Sale.

[Bob Sacamano]

If I can't get Torres + Frazier plus at least one more prospect I am not sure there is a Yankees package that would make sense

 

Torres is a very good prospect, but he is not on the level of Moncada.

 

Agreed.

[steveno89]

And Quintana is a very good pitcher, he is not on the level of Sale.

 

He's not Sale, but he is also under control for four seasons vs. three seasons of Sale (at the same dollar cost)

 

I'm not parting with him to the Yankees for less than Torres + Frazier + at least one more good prospect

[Bob Sacamano]

He's not Sale, but he is also under control for four seasons vs. three seasons of Sale (at the same dollar cost)

 

I'm not parting with him to the Yankees for less than Torres + Frazier + at least one more good prospect

 

And it doesn't sound like Hahn wants to deal him for less than what they received for Sale as well.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

And Quintana is a very good pitcher, he is not on the level of Sale.

Wrong.

[steveno89]

And it doesn't sound like Hahn wants to deal him for less than what they received for Sale as well.

 

Teams know what the pricetag is

 

Colorado price = Rodgers + Hoffman or Pint + Tapia or Marquez or Freeland

 

Houston Price = Martes + Tucker + Reed + Perez or Martes+ Tucker + Musgrove

 

New York Price = Torres + Frazier + One or two more good prospects

[Con te Giolito]

Torres isn't a top 10 guy, maybe by mid season but not yet. Rutherford checks in at #51. Kaprielian is a fringe top 100 and has health questions and Tate's tumbled down the rankings due to his time in Texas. This package may have more "top 100" guys than the Sale deal but lags behind in terms of upside while presenting more depth. If anything this deal is more like the Eaton deal with a tiny bit more tacked on.

You know its pretty difficult to asses where these guys are going to land until the lists actually come out, but right now judging by the remarks of a lot of people in the business of following prospects and their stocks there is a ton of helium on Torres and Kapreilian from their success in the AFL. Rutherford had an OPS over 1.000 as a 19 year old in rookie ball, so his trajectory has his stock pretty high too.

[steveno89]

You know its pretty difficult to asses where these guys are going to land until the lists actually come out, but right now judging by the remarks of a lot of people in the business of following prospects and their stocks there is a ton of helium on Torres and Kapreilian from their success in the AFL. Rutherford had an OPS over 1.000 as a 19 year old in rookie ball, so his trajectory has his stock pretty high too.

 

I'm not knocking Rutherford, but at age 18 he is very far away from contributing at the mlb level. He will likely start the season at low A ball, possibly sniffing high A by end of this season at best. He then would need at least a full season in AA and another full season at AAA before getting the call to the bigs in 2020, late 2019 at earliest. I'm not sure the Sox see that as lining up with their plan to contend. He's a very good long term prospect, but I feel like we want to target prospects closer to the majors.

 

Kaprielian is decent, but has barely thrown any minor league innings due to injury. He's far off being a Q centerpiece

[bmags]

I could see a realistic deal being Torres/Rutherford/Adams.

[steveno89]

I could see a realistic deal being Torres/Rutherford/Adams.

 

Feels considerably light

[OmarComing25]

Both Callis and Law said Torres was going to be Top 5 or Top 10 on their updated lists. i know he's farther off than the other guys but that kind of ranking puts him only a step down from the Benintendi/Swanson/Bregman group if not right there with them.

[Whisox05]

While Yankees have contacted White Sox about Quintana, chances for a deal are slim. Sox want a ton and Yankee plan is keep best prospects.

https://twitter.com/JackCurryYES/status/810964292589731845

 

By the way, Cashman and the Yankees' front office check in with teams on every young, controllable starter, like Quintana. Most teams do.

https://twitter.com/JackCurryYES/status/810964616318767106

 

Quintana is 27, has averaged 200 IP for the last 4 years and is signed for next 4 years. The White Sox should ask a lot for him.

https://twitter.com/JackCurryYES/status/810965027649888257

Edited December 19, 2016 by WhiteSoxLifer

[Con te Giolito]

Feels considerably light

It's better than the Sale return.

 

Torres < Moncada

Rutherford > Kopech (this is close, but the upside on Rutherford right now is almost unlimited)

Adams >>> Basabe and Diaz

Edited December 19, 2016 by Con te Giolito

[steveno89]

Both Callis and Law said Torres was going to be Top 5 or Top 10 on their updated lists. i know he's farther off than the other guys but that kind of ranking puts him only a step down from the Benintendi/Swanson/Bregman group if not right there with them.

 

Benintendi, Swanson and Bregman are all better prospects than Torres is right now

 

Torres could reach that level if he performs well in 2016, but he has never played above A+ ball

 

How he performs this year in AA will be very telling as to where he stands as a prospect against significantly improved competition

[bmags]

It's better than the Sale return.

 

Torres

Rutherford > Kopech (this is close, but the upside on Rutherford right now is almost unlimited)

Adams >>> Basabe and Diaz

 

I think you are underrating Basabe and Overrating Adams but I do think it's comparable to the Sale trade.

[OmarComing25]

Benintendi, Swanson and Bregman are all better prospects than Torres is right now

 

Torres could reach that level if he performs well in 2016, but he has never played above A+ ball

 

How he performs this year in AA will be very telling as to where he stands as a prospect against significantly improved competition

I know, I didn't say Torres was better than that group, just that in the eyes of some he's not that far off their level, so we might have to recalibrate expectations a bit on the additional pieces.

[steveno89]

It's better than the Sale return.

 

Torres

Rutherford > Kopech

Adams >>> Basabe and Diaz

 

I disagree that Rutherford > Kopech

 

Kopech moved up to the mlb.com #30 overall ranking at the end of season. I would put them relatively close in terms of value right now.

 

Adams has a great season, but he profiles more as a reliever long term. Scouts are uncertain whether he will stick as a starter.

 

Basabe is still young and if he can improve his hit tool could be a starting center fielder down the line. Diaz throws upper 90's and is a good gamble as the final piece to the Sale deal

 

Moncada > Torres

 

Kopech = Rutherford (Rutherford is further away from the mlb)

 

Adams possibly a tick better than Basabe and Diaz, but not by a ton.

[Dick Allen]

Q is great, but this really makes no sense for the Yankees. Their hope is these young guys pan out. They cannot compete with Boston now with Q,giving up what they would have to give up, would hurt their chances in the future. So unless they are prepared to spend zillions of dollars, I can't seem them making this trade.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Con te Giolito]

A lot of you guys are blood drunk on the Eaton trade, and if Quintana is traded you're setting yourselves up to be really disappointed.

 

Like if the Sox get a Clint Frazier, Aaron Judge and Wilkerman Garcia package for Q will you seriously be upset? Because judging by the demands of two of the top three prospects from the best farm system in baseball you're gonna be devastated by whatever return they get for him. The Red Sox didn't even have to give up two of their top three and they do not have the same caliber system the Yankees have (nor are they as invested in the contributions of their minor leaguers as the Yankees currently are).

[steveno89]

A lot of you guys are blood drunk on the Eaton trade, and if Quintana is traded you're setting yourselves up to be really disappointed.

 

Like if the Sox get a Clint Frazier, Aaron Judge and Wilkerman Garcia package for Q will you seriously be upset? Because judging by the demands of two of the top three prospects from the best farm system in baseball you're gonna be devastated by whatever return they get for him. The Red Sox didn't even have to give up two of their top three and they do not have the same caliber system the Yankees have (nor are they as invested in the contributions of their minor leaguers as the Yankees currently are).

 

I actually disagree.

 

Quintana posted the 4th best WAR in the American League. We wisely held out for an excellent return in exchange for Sale, why should we settle on Quintana?

 

Judge's value is down in my opinion. He will be 25 years old this season and strikes out at a concerning rate. He struck out 44% of the time in 27 major league games. I might overlook this small sample size more if Judge were 20/21/22 years old, but at 25 years old it is more concerning. He will only ever be average at best defensively, likely regressing quickly due to his huge size. I don't like him as a fit.

 

Wilkerman posted a .539 OPS in rookie ball. Yes, he is young for the level, but it shows how far he is away from sniffing the mlb level...if ever

[Con te Giolito]

I actually disagree.

 

Quintana posted the 4th best WAR in the American League. We wisely held out for an excellent return in exchange for Sale, why should we settle on Quintana?

 

Judge's value is down in my opinion. He will be 25 years old this season and strikes out at a concerning rate. He struck out 44% of the time in 27 major league games. I might overlook this small sample size more if Judge were 20/21/22 years old, but at 25 years old it is more concerning. He will only ever be average at best defensively, likely regressing quickly due to his huge size. I don't like him as a fit.

 

Wilkerman posted a .539 OPS in rookie ball. Yes, he is young for the level, but it shows how far he is away from sniffing the mlb level...if ever

Yea but they would also be getting Clint Frazier, one of the better outfield prospects in baseball.