Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[ptatc]

They tried to acquire Q at the deadline last year from all reports. You've underrated Quintana alot in this thread though, so its not surprising with your posts.

I don't think I've underrated at all. I think he is a TOR pitcher and is more consistent than most in the league. almost every team would love to have him. In fact, if i were the Sox FO, I would have traded Sale before Q as well. But that's because Sale is better and would bring more on the open market. Quintana would bring a very good prospect package in any trade.

 

I think I agreed in another post that he is a top 10 pitcher in the AL which I do think so. My only point is that he just isn't as good as Sale and wouldn't bring back as much in a trade.

[SoxAce]

I don't think I've underrated at all. I think he is a TOR pitcher and is more consistent than most in the league. almost every team would love to have him. In fact, if i were the Sox FO, I would have traded Sale before Q as well. But that's because Sale is better and would bring more on the open market. Quintana would bring a very good prospect package in any trade.

 

I think I agreed in another post that he is a top 10 pitcher in the AL which I do think so. My only point is that he just isn't as good as Sale and wouldn't bring back as much in a trade.

 

Now we're on the same page. I have been on record here saying I like Rutherford better anyways than Frazier so I'm good with him in a deal. But, Torres is a must for any Q deal I make with the Yankees. The other pieces can be lesser fine, but that kid better be in it.

[southsider2k5]

Quintana for four seasons is more valuable than 2 1/2 seasons of Andrew Miller, which received Frazier + Sheffield + two more prospects

 

If they insist on keeping one or Frazier or Torres, I'd want Torres +++ and the rest must be very high quality

 

Torres + Rutherford + Adams + Montgomery + Sands

 

Minimum required = Two of Torres/Frazier/Rutherford + two more #10-30 organizational prospects

 

Value only goes so far. There is a premium for a pitcher viewed as an ace that Jose Quintana will not return. If that return had been out there, he'd already be gone.

[Quin]

Not for the price that Sale brought. The team that trades for him is going to expect the production that makes the prospects worth the trade. He just won't bring back the prospects that Sale did. there is a reason that Boston wanted Sale not Quintana in the deal. Quintana is a very good valuable pitcher. regardless, of contract (it does drive his value up) he will not bring the prospects that Sale did and you are going to be disappointed if you expect that.

 

Take it for what it's worth, this was at the deadline.

 

whitesoxdave

‏@barstoolWSD

FWIW I was told the #WhiteSox turned down a Benintendi, Kopech, Johnson/Ball, and PTBNL package for Quintana from #RedSox

[BlackSox13]

That is an awful trade for the Sox. Why do people think Travis is good?

I think with Travis, it's more about his youth, potential and he can play some 1B. Travis certainly isn't anyone's first choice in a trade but I wouldn't complain if he was acquired.

 

Would a better proposal be Devers with the other three I listed?

[FT35]

I find it hard to believe the Yankees give up one of Torres/Frazier let alone both.

 

Oh I think that the whole reason the Sox would listen is because of Torres/Frazier. I don't think you'll see the Sox do a deal without one or the other. I'm with you--maybe not both, but one or the other is not just "probably" but almost for sure. And if the Yanks don't do one of those 2, then I think talks will end quickly. The Sox are going after every team's #1 prospect as a centerpiece return so far. Only exception is the report from Houston declining that 3 player trade without Bregman--and I'm not 100% convinced of that report's accuracy...

[BlackSox13]

The Red Sox aren't trading for another starter so it's really all moot.

As mentioned already, it's for discussion purposes only. Nobody thinks Boston will actually trade for Q.

[ptatc]

The Red Sox aren't trading for another starter so it's really all moot.

yeah, they just traded one away to stay below the salary tax. the 4 they have should be enough. The questions would change if one goes down before the All-star break and they are playing well. not that I wish the misfortune of injury on anyone, although that very scenario does keep bread on the table for my family.

[BlackSox13]

http://riveraveblues.com/2016/12/morosi-ya...uintana-148274/

 

Nice take from a Yankees perspective.

[Chicago White Sox]

Yes.

 

In my opinion:

 

|-------1-----2----3---4-------5----6----7--8---|

 

1.) What Yankees fans think Q's worth

2.) What the Yankees think Q's worth

3.) Eaton return

4.) What Q is actually worth

5.) What the Sox think Q's worth

6.) Sale return

7.) What the numbers think Q's worth

8.) What Sox fans think Q's worth

Lol, this is spot on. I'd happily take something frameworked like the Eaton deal, but with a better 3rd piece and maybe a lottery ticket. Not sure the Yankees would be willing to do that, but it would be a nice return IMO.

[Quin]

http://riveraveblues.com/2016/12/morosi-ya...uintana-148274/

 

Nice take from a Yankees perspective.

 

Yankees blogs seem to pretty rational in regards to Q.

[FT35]

The Yankees finished in 4th place at 84-78 last year...9 games back of Boston--who just got a lot better with the Sale trade. It's just puzzling to think they would see themselves as ready to contend enough to mortgage their farm to acquire Quintana right now.

 

Houston finished with the same 84-78 record and they were 11 games back. A guy like Quintana could make either of these 2 teams a potential 90-win team, but both would have a lot of other work to do to somehow catch the clubs in front of them who are more than just a little better than them!

 

My sales pitch would be this...No...Quintana might not be the player who vaults either one of those teams to 1st place...but he would close at least half that gap by himself and his low salary would enable them to still go out and close it more with others. One would think they would need to do that before the season started because every win will matter for the Yankees and Astros chances of winning their division...however, the talks going on now may be more realistically laying the groundwork for a July 31st deal--just to see where they are then.

[southsider2k5]

http://riveraveblues.com/2016/12/morosi-ya...uintana-148274/

 

Nice take from a Yankees perspective.

 

That is a solid read.

 

From a personal standpoint, I keep hearing about the Yankees farm system. To me, it seems like the least likely scenario possible that the Yankees patiently wait for their farm system to start paying dividends. To me, the reason the Yankees have a farm system is so that they can use them to get the players they want from other teams. I have thought that was the Yankees plan as soon as they started trading just their middle relievers. I could be wrong, but this is what I think, and if you view this through that lens, the Yankees being interested in Q makes a hell of a lot of sense.

[Dick Allen]

The Yankees finished in 4th place at 84-78 last year...9 games back of Boston--who just got a lot better with the Sale trade. It's just puzzling to think they would see themselves as ready to contend enough to mortgage their farm to acquire Quintana right now.

 

Houston finished with the same 84-78 record and they were 11 games back. A guy like Quintana could make either of these 2 teams a potential 90-win team, but both would have a lot of other work to do to somehow catch the clubs in front of them who are more than just a little better than them!

 

My sales pitch would be this...No...Quintana might not be the player who vaults either one of those teams to 1st place...but he would close at least half that gap by himself and his low salary would enable them to still go out and close it more with others. One would think they would need to do that before the season started because every win will matter for the Yankees and Astros chances of winning their division...however, the talks going on now may be more realistically laying the groundwork for a July 31st deal--just to see where they are then.

I agree. I was watching MLBN yesterday and Brian Kenny was grilling Morosi as to why the Yankees would do this. Morosi, who has been called an idiot here more than once, seed to think Q's 4 years of control was a big reason. It still makes litttle sense to me why the Yankees would trade all the prospects they have just gained, but Eric Byrnes and Billy Ripken both said they need to make the trade. I don't really think there is anything to it, but I also thought Moncada was off the table.

[Dam8610]

I don't see us getting both Torres and Frazier. I think pick one of them and go from there.

 

I'd go Torres (SS), Rutherford (OF), Andujar (3B), and Fowler (OF) for Quintana

 

I actually like that package. Lots of potential and some limit to downside risk. I think Torres, Andujar, and Fowler would start in AA with Rutherford starting in A-.

[Thad Bosley]

I find it hard to believe the Yankees give up one of Torres/Frazier let alone both.

Interestingly, at this particular Yankees fans' blog/website, the author of this article thinks the fair package for someone of Quintana's caliber would be "two of Jorge Mateo, Clint Frazier, Blake Rutherford, and Gleyber Torres; one of James Kaprielian, Aaron Judge, Justus Sheffield, and someone lower like Tyler Wade, Dustin Fowler, or Domingo Acevedo." He goes onto warn the Yankee fans about "prospect hugging", and does a rather credible job of describing what a great pitcher Q is. Thoughtful and fair analysis, I think!

 

 

http://www.pinstripealley.com/2016/12/20/1...ford-sale-eaton

[southsider2k5]

Interestingly, at this particular Yankees fans' blog/website, the author of this article thinks the fair package for someone of Quintana's caliber would be "two of Jorge Mateo, Clint Frazier, Blake Rutherford, and Gleyber Torres; one of James Kaprielian, Aaron Judge, Justus Sheffield, and someone lower like Tyler Wade, Dustin Fowler, or Domingo Acevedo." He goes onto warn the Yankee fans about "prospect hugging", and does a rather credible job of describing what a great pitcher Q is. Thoughtful and fair analysis, I think!

 

 

http://www.pinstripealley.com/2016/12/20/1...ford-sale-eaton

 

This is almost exactly how I saw a package coming together, though I phrased it as being one of the SS's and one of the OF's at the top of the list to start a deal.

[ChiSox59]

Interestingly, at this particular Yankees fans' blog/website, the author of this article thinks the fair package for someone of Quintana's caliber would be "two of Jorge Mateo, Clint Frazier, Blake Rutherford, and Gleyber Torres; one of James Kaprielian, Aaron Judge, Justus Sheffield, and someone lower like Tyler Wade, Dustin Fowler, or Domingo Acevedo." He goes onto warn the Yankee fans about "prospect hugging", and does a rather credible job of describing what a great pitcher Q is. Thoughtful and fair analysis, I think!

 

 

http://www.pinstripealley.com/2016/12/20/1...ford-sale-eaton

 

Frazier, Torres, Judge, and Fowler would get me giddy.

Edited December 20, 2016 by ChiSox59

[daggins]

The longer this goes on, the less convinced I am it will happen, at least this winter. Maybe someone gets hurt in ST, but the Astros don't need him and the Yankees are too early in the rebuild cycle to get him.

[Dam8610]

Frazier, Torres, Jude, and Fowler would get me giddy.

 

I think you meant to say Judge here, but why? He's extremely likely to bust with his alarmingly high K rate and huge body that likely won't hold up. Think Adam Dunn, but with more Ks. I'd rather have Andujar, and I think he'll be the more successful player long term, despite his not being as highly rated as a prospect.

[ChiSox59]

I think you meant to say Judge here, but why? He's extremely likely to bust with his alarmingly high K rate and huge body that likely won't hold up. Think Adam Dunn, but with more Ks. I'd rather have Andujar, and I think he'll be the more successful player long term, despite his not being as highly rated as a prospect.

 

Because he's the third piece. I don't love him, but we have space for a ML ready OF, and he has a bunch of upside. If we could get Rutherford instead of Judge, but still get Torres and Frazier, I'd prefer that, but I doubt that is going to happen.

[NCsoxfan]

The Yankees finished in 4th place at 84-78 last year...9 games back of Boston--who just got a lot better with the Sale trade. It's just puzzling to think they would see themselves as ready to contend enough to mortgage their farm to acquire Quintana right now.

 

Houston finished with the same 84-78 record and they were 11 games back. A guy like Quintana could make either of these 2 teams a potential 90-win team, but both would have a lot of other work to do to somehow catch the clubs in front of them who are more than just a little better than them!

 

My sales pitch would be this...No...Quintana might not be the player who vaults either one of those teams to 1st place...but he would close at least half that gap by himself and his low salary would enable them to still go out and close it more with others. One would think they would need to do that before the season started because every win will matter for the Yankees and Astros chances of winning their division...however, the talks going on now may be more realistically laying the groundwork for a July 31st deal--just to see where they are then.

 

Yankees probably don't intend on a very long rebuild, and likely intend on contending more seriously in '18 & on, so it's not just about 2017. There's a LOT of value to them in 4 years of Q. They could be planning to sign Machado/Harper/etc and would want to save $ elsewhere on someone like Q.

[Dam8610]

Because he's the third piece. I don't love him, but we have space for a ML ready OF, and he has a bunch of upside. If we could get Rutherford instead of Judge, but still get Torres and Frazier, I'd prefer that, but I doubt that is going to happen.

 

No way they'd give up all 3, maybe 2 if we're lucky. That said, I'd like to see the Sox avoid the high K power guys like Judge since they've shown they have trouble developing those types. I think Andujar would be more likely to develop well with the Sox, and makes the Yankees more likely to pull the trigger since he's not as highly ranked of a prospect.

 

[FT35]

Yankees probably don't intend on a very long rebuild, and likely intend on contending more seriously in '18 & on, so it's not just about 2017. There's a LOT of value to them in 4 years of Q. They could be planning to sign Machado/Harper/etc and would want to save $ elsewhere on someone like Q.

 

Right...this may be the time to pounce to make sure they have him for 18...17 is just the "get acclimated" year. I could see that.

[FT35]

I agree. I was watching MLBN yesterday and Brian Kenny was grilling Morosi as to why the Yankees would do this. Morosi, who has been called an idiot here more than once, seed to think Q's 4 years of control was a big reason. It still makes litttle sense to me why the Yankees would trade all the prospects they have just gained, but Eric Byrnes and Billy Ripken both said they need to make the trade. I don't really think there is anything to it, but I also thought Moncada was off the table.

 

Yeah, if they are thinking 2018, it would make more sense for them--especially since they are going to lose a couple starters then. A lot of players bust their first year in NY...maybe they would pull the trigger now and get that rust out in 2017 so they can make their real run in 2018.