Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[knightni]

There's a weird piling on of judge right now. I don't necessarily want him in a Q deal, but sometimes players do need time to develop.

 

He dramatically improved between years 1 and 2 in AAA as you'd like to see. He strikes out, but he was still k'ing at under 30% in AAA and walking at a nice 12% clip. In his abysmal, small sample size, he still walked 10% of the time.

I wouldn't be against Judge if the White Sox farm system didn't have a poor history of developing guys with poor batting eyes into good selective hitters.

[Bob Sacamano]

If the White Sox system isn't going to develop position players then undertaking a rebuild was the absolute stupidest thing they could have done.

 

This x 1000

[steveno89]

There's a weird piling on of judge right now. I don't necessarily want him in a Q deal, but sometimes players do need time to develop.

 

He dramatically improved between years 1 and 2 in AAA as you'd like to see. He strikes out, but he was still k'ing at under 30% in AAA and walking at a nice 12% clip. In his abysmal, small sample size, he still walked 10% of the time.

 

I'm not saying Judge cannot right the ship, he absolutely can.

 

But I am also not going to ignore striking out like he did

 

I dug into Judge's game log, and if you take away the first five games after he got called up and performed well he was beyond terrible the rest of the season.

 

From August 19th to September 13th Judge batted .106 in 75 plate appearances and struck out 48% of the time

 

I'm not going to say this means he qill automatically bust, but he struggled big time at the mlb level

[BlackSox13]

There's a weird piling on of judge right now. I don't necessarily want him in a Q deal, but sometimes players do need time to develop.

 

He dramatically improved between years 1 and 2 in AAA as you'd like to see. He strikes out, but he was still k'ing at under 30% in AAA and walking at a nice 12% clip. In his abysmal, small sample size, he still walked 10% of the time.

Absolutely agree. At least Judge is trending upwards in his development. One thing I find funny is how Judge is viewed somewhat as being old (25 in April) by some folks. Lol, I hardly consider that to be old and like you said, some players take time to develop.

 

As I said before, the Yanks have prospects I would rather have over Judge but if a deal was made and Judge was apart of the return, I would be giddy at his power potential at the Cell. ( Sorry but I refuse to acknowledge the new name, it's still too soon. )

[steveno89]

Absolutely agree. At least Judge is trending upwards in his development. One thing I find funny is how Judge is viewed somewhat as being old (25 in April) by some folks. Lol, I hardly consider that to be old and like you said, some players take time to develop.

 

As I said before, the Yanks have prospects I would rather have over Judge but if a deal was made and Judge was apart of the return, I would be giddy at his power potential at the Cell. ( Sorry but I refuse to acknowledge the new name, it's still too soon. )

 

25 is relatively old for a prospect. As a third piece to a Quintana deal he is worth a gamble, but not as the first or second piece

[FT35]

How many of these guys have to bust before Sox fans will learn that that type of player just does not develop in the White Sox farm system?

 

To be fair...we don't see a lot of pure power hitting monsters come through our system. Unless they are "toolsy athletes" we generally avoid! That includes all players with any sort of baseball IQ. lol Who was the last? Joe Borchard?

[Quin]

To be fair...we don't see a lot of pure power hitting monsters come through our system. Unless they are "toolsy athletes" we generally avoid! That includes all players with any sort of baseball IQ. lol Who was the last? Joe Borchard?

 

Dayan Viciedo.

[Dam8610]

If the White Sox system isn't going to develop position players then undertaking a rebuild was the absolute stupidest thing they could have done.

 

I didn't say they couldn't develop any position players, just that they have a long history of failing at developing the ones that have flaws similar to Judge.

[illinilaw08]

If the White Sox system isn't going to develop position players then undertaking a rebuild was the absolute stupidest thing they could have done.

 

If the White Sox system isn't going to develop position players, then they will never field a playoff team again, and the rebuild, and the very existence of the franchise, is a failure.

[Dam8610]

So the Sox should give up on power hitters then? What's the alternative?

 

It's no coincidence that the Sox organization has shifted towards drafting and developing players who know how to get on base

 

Collins and Fisher led the NCAA in OBP this past season

 

The answer was right in front of (technically above) you(r post).

[BlackSox13]

The answer was right in front of (technically above) you(r post).

And every team in the league would love to fill their rosters with those types of players but the problem is there aren't enough high OBP power hitters that don't strike out alot to go round. Next best option is the Todd Frazier types where strike outs come with their power potential. As bad as the Sox offense was last year imagine how much worse they would have been without Frazier's 40 hr and 98 RBI.

 

I don't deny past failures in the development of power hitters but I would rather see the Sox keep trying than give up.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I didn't say they couldn't develop any position players, just that they have a long history of failing at developing the ones that have flaws similar to Judge.

 

Realistically, they haven't developed much of anything in the position player realm for a decade now.

[bmags]

Realistically, they haven't developed much of anything in the position player realm for a decade now.

 

True, you could even say the all power no hit tool no batting eye is the rare player we have graduated to the show.

[BlackSox13]

There's a weird piling on of judge right now. I don't necessarily want him in a Q deal, but sometimes players do need time to develop.

 

He dramatically improved between years 1 and 2 in AAA as you'd like to see. He strikes out, but he was still k'ing at under 30% in AAA and walking at a nice 12% clip. In his abysmal, small sample size, he still walked 10% of the time.

 

 

25 is relatively old for a prospect. As a third piece to a Quintana deal he is worth a gamble, but not as the first or second piece

I agree but my post was in response to the quoted post above highlighted in bold. I don't recall anyone saying they wanted Judge as a first or second piece, but I could be wrong.

[steveno89]

True, you could even say the all power no hit tool no batting eye is the rare player we have graduated to the show.

 

The organization has made it clear they are focusing on actual baseball players, rather than 5 tool "athletes"

 

The have emphasized on base percentage in recent draft picks of Collins, Fisher and Call. They did a great job at drafting arms with upside as well in Hansen, Elliott, Lambert, Flores, and Hamilton

 

Aaron Schnurbusch absolutely raked in Rookie Ball and might turn into a decent prospect.

[hi8is]

BOOOOORRING!

[caulfield12]

Dayan Viciedo.

 

Josh Fields and Hawkins/Barnum (to a lesser extent) would be more misses. The high profile one have to live with every day is Avi Garcia.

Semien and Thompson, otoh, flashed potential last year...particularly Marcus.

 

In a way, the high profiles failures with Dunn and LaRoche have caused most Sox fans to question their ability to identify any power hitters, but it's not like Frazier and Abreu are both chopped liver.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by caulfield12

[Y2Jimmy0]

I proposed something like OF Aaron Judge, OF Blake Rutherford, RHP Dillon Tate, and SS Wilkerman Garcia for Quintana. I think the Yanks would do that probably. I think Rutherford is a potential superstar and I'd be willing to take a chance on Judge's power potential 25 years old or not. White Sox also really liked Rutherford and Tate in their draft years. I'd be in favor of working something around Blake Rutherford but I understand those not in favor.

[caulfield12]

One of these trades, we need to bring some catching talent back...particularly on the defensive side.

 

Perhaps Adams or Tate as the third piece instead of Judge...if you can get Torres and Rutherford and one final flier (ala Diaz), that's about the best we can do with NY.

 

Whatever path they choose, they need to look reminiscent of the potential 2014/15 Cubs in 2019. Rutherford becomes the pivot for the whole deal, depending on scouting evals.

[Quin]

Josh Fields and Hawkins/Barnum (to a lesser extent) would be more misses. The high profile one have to live with every day is Avi Garcia.

Semien and Thompson, otoh, flashed potential last year...particularly Marcus.

 

In a way, the high profiles failures with Dunn and LaRoche have caused most Sox fans to question their ability to identify any power hitters, but it's not like Frazier and Abreu are both chopped liver.

 

He was talking about the all-power players that make it all the way through our system.

[Dam8610]

And every team in the league would love to fill their rosters with those types of players but the problem is there aren't enough high OBP power hitters that don't strike out alot to go round. Next best option is the Todd Frazier types where strike outs come with their power potential. As bad as the Sox offense was last year imagine how much worse they would have been without Frazier's 40 hr and 98 RBI.

 

I don't deny past failures in the development of power hitters but I would rather see the Sox keep trying than give up.

 

I would rather see the Sox target players they are more likely to succeed in developing than keep hitting their head into the brick wall of failure with these high K power guys.

[Dam8610]

I proposed something like OF Aaron Judge, OF Blake Rutherford, RHP Dillon Tate, and SS Wilkerman Garcia for Quintana. I think the Yanks would do that probably. I think Rutherford is a potential superstar and I'd be willing to take a chance on Judge's power potential 25 years old or not. White Sox also really liked Rutherford and Tate in their draft years. I'd be in favor of working something around Blake Rutherford but I understand those not in favor.

 

If that's all the Yankees offer for Q, move on. Torres needs to be in the deal. So does one of Frazier or Rutherford (they're more likely to want to include Rutherford). Which of those two is in the deal would determine what other two pieces I would target.

[fathom]

No way should Rutherford be the main piece coming back.

[BlackSox13]

I would rather see the Sox target players they are more likely to succeed in developing than keep hitting their head into the brick wall of failure with these high K power guys.

As I said in my post you quoted, there's not enough of those high OBP/power players to go around so if power is the desire then sometimes we have to take the strike outs that come with that power.

[Chisoxfn]

Take it for what it's worth, this was at the deadline.

 

whitesoxdave

‏@barstoolWSD

FWIW I was told the #WhiteSox turned down a Benintendi, Kopech, Johnson/Ball, and PTBNL package for Quintana from #RedSox

I know I'm late to the party, but that is a deal that would have really excited me. Oh well...Red Sox move isn't happening now, but I think I'd have made that deal and flipped Sale elsewhere (mainly because I think in order of operation, I'd have rather moved Q before Sale...because I think it would be easier to move Sale vs. Q).