Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[Dunt]

I think a realistic package has to start around one of Meadows/Bell.

 

Obviously, Medows is much more enticing but I also think he's much more unrealistic.

 

Would everyone be happy with a package of Bell, Newman, Keller & lower level guy? That's 3 top 100 guys & a throw in like with Boston. The caliber of prospects isn't as high as the Sale deal but there's a bit more depth to this one.

 

I would probably be ok with that package depending on the last player. Would make sense for the Pirates too. They could flip Cutch to the Mets and get Dominic Smith and Justin Dunn back and basically replace Bell and Keller instantly.

[Whisox05]

Ancillary benefit of a Quintana trade for PIT: It would give them cover to deal McCutchen. Could say (rightly) they are trying to win in '17

https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/811610653072982019

[bmags]

Sorry for catch-alling the crap out of this thread, but BA's top 10 prospect list for cardinals came out and Magneurius Sierra was ranked ahead of Bader who slipped way down their list.

 

bmagnerius is still alive.

 

edit: mentioned because about 1000 posts ago we discussed Cardinals.

[ChiSox59]

So, I gotta come in and defend the Pirates here. This is a team that won 98 games in 2015 and deserved to. If McCutchen is still able to put up all star numbers, this is a team with a number of strengths.

 

In the OF, you've got 3 plus bats and at least 2 plus defenders - Marte is a borderline all star every year, McCutchen has won MVP awards, Polanco is 24, has gotten better every year, and had an above average bat last year. If his power develops as he ages he'll be an all star, so there's 3 borderline all stars and a guy who has been an MVP. That OF on paper is competitive for best in baseball.

 

Their IF isn't filled with stars like their OF is, but Kang, Harrison, Freese, and Mercer are all 1-3 WAR players in a normal year. Decent defense, decent bats, fills in a fairly deep lineup when you have those 3 big OF bats.

 

1b has been a weak spot for them for years now, but Josh Bell pencils into that role nicely right now.

 

Catcher - Cervelli again, not an all star, but a good strong catcher and handles a staff well.

 

Their pitching rotation - Gerrit Cole is a legit number 1 starter, follow that by Taillon, Glasnow, and Kuhl and you have a young, strong, cheap starting rotation to pair with him. Bullpen has been a strength for years, and they've had an excellent record of both developing pitchers and of pulling out reclamation projects.

 

What happened to them last year? Well first of all their pitching rotation got hurt and fell apart. Cole hit the DL, Liriano was terrible, that took a rotation that was near the top of the NL in 2015 down towards the bottom last year. They had to play a lot of rookies, the rookies have talent but you can only get so far with that young of a rotation. On top of that, McCutchen fell apart - that's the difference between being in the WC race and out of it right there, you don't replace an MVP who has a terrible year.

 

With the young pitching they have, the only reason why that team can't be competitive with the Cubs and Cardinals again is if the same things happened this year. If McCutchen's career is really finished, then they're not competitive unless they trade him, and if Cole can't stay healthy then that does what Sale being hurt would have done to us - destroys them.

 

That's a strong roster if a few things go well. Adding in Quintana could be a really good fit - if they're worried about injuries then add in the most reliable pitcher you can find into that #2 slot and you've made that rotation into as good of a rotation on paper as there is in that division, and if you could do it without subtracting Bell or anyone from the big league rotation by using Meadows as the key piece, then the baseball logic works. That doesn't guarantee they'll beat the Cubs, they need Cole to be healthy and McCutchen to be MVP caliber again to do that, but they would be a strong roster on paper and that's a good place to be. There are other ways to make that work if they got a full return for McCutchen also, so there's a good match on paper for that franchise.

 

So, Balta, I know you're second (first?) team is the Bucs. What do you see as a fair trade for both sides? I see you included Bell in your lineup above, so I assume you think he's not going to be part of the package.

[bmags]

Austin Meadows AA slash line

.311 .365 .611 .976

[Con te Giolito]

Austin Meadows AA slash line

.311 .365 .611 .976

With a good CF and only 17% K rate.

[Chisoxfn]

A potential pirates deal excites me.

[hi8is]

Austin Meadows AA slash line

.311 .365 .611 .976

So, you're saying he's no good?

[username]

I would probably be ok with that package depending on the last player. Would make sense for the Pirates too. They could flip Cutch to the Mets and get Dominic Smith and Justin Dunn back and basically replace Bell and Keller instantly.

 

Could also be possible the Mets ship Conforto to the Pirates for Cutch...in which case Meadows is expendable.

 

Second thought: would the pirates be interested in Abreu as well? His year to year contract works pretty well for them, especially if they get rid of Cutch's 14.5 or so Million.

[CyAcosta41]

So, I gotta come in and defend the Pirates here. This is a team that won 98 games in 2015 and deserved to. If McCutchen is still able to put up all star numbers, this is a team with a number of strengths.

 

In the OF, you've got 3 plus bats and at least 2 plus defenders - Marte is a borderline all star every year, McCutchen has won MVP awards, Polanco is 24, has gotten better every year, and had an above average bat last year. If his power develops as he ages he'll be an all star, so there's 3 borderline all stars and a guy who has been an MVP. That OF on paper is competitive for best in baseball.

 

Their IF isn't filled with stars like their OF is, but Kang, Harrison, Freese, and Mercer are all 1-3 WAR players in a normal year. Decent defense, decent bats, fills in a fairly deep lineup when you have those 3 big OF bats.

 

1b has been a weak spot for them for years now, but Josh Bell pencils into that role nicely right now.

 

Catcher - Cervelli again, not an all star, but a good strong catcher and handles a staff well.

 

Their pitching rotation - Gerrit Cole is a legit number 1 starter, follow that by Taillon, Glasnow, and Kuhl and you have a young, strong, cheap starting rotation to pair with him. Bullpen has been a strength for years, and they've had an excellent record of both developing pitchers and of pulling out reclamation projects.

 

What happened to them last year? Well first of all their pitching rotation got hurt and fell apart. Cole hit the DL, Liriano was terrible, that took a rotation that was near the top of the NL in 2015 down towards the bottom last year. They had to play a lot of rookies, the rookies have talent but you can only get so far with that young of a rotation. On top of that, McCutchen fell apart - that's the difference between being in the WC race and out of it right there, you don't replace an MVP who has a terrible year.

 

With the young pitching they have, the only reason why that team can't be competitive with the Cubs and Cardinals again is if the same things happened this year. If McCutchen's career is really finished, then they're not competitive unless they trade him, and if Cole can't stay healthy then that does what Sale being hurt would have done to us - destroys them.

 

That's a strong roster if a few things go well. Adding in Quintana could be a really good fit - if they're worried about injuries then add in the most reliable pitcher you can find into that #2 slot and you've made that rotation into as good of a rotation on paper as there is in that division, and if you could do it without subtracting Bell or anyone from the big league rotation by using Meadows as the key piece, then the baseball logic works. That doesn't guarantee they'll beat the Cubs, they need Cole to be healthy and McCutchen to be MVP caliber again to do that, but they would be a strong roster on paper and that's a good place to be. There are other ways to make that work if they got a full return for McCutchen also, so there's a good match on paper for that franchise.

 

Agreed. Virtually everything went south for the Buccos last year and everything went right for the Schlubbies. The Cards will always be somewhere in the mix.

 

With all of their strengths, the Pirates MUST add someone like Q (or better than a Q-type, Q himself), as a best in the game style #2. I think Q is going to explode into national prominence in the NL.

 

The price needs to be steep, but it's go-time for them and they will pony-up. I've long believed that and now feel it. I think we'll see a mixed quality/depth trade we need. I'm thinking the framework might be that we'll get the one bona fide stud in Meadows , plus any 3 in their system of our choosing, not named Glasnow, Bell, Newman, or Keller.

Edited December 21, 2016 by CyAcosta41

[OmarComing25]

Man is Cameron phoning it in these days. Where to even start with how lazy that argument is?

 

You choose wOBA as a single stat to make your argument? So, let's just ignore how much better Q has been the last two years, the defense behind him, the park he pitched in, the framing differences, the 70 extra innings he threw, the two years younger he is, the contract affordability, and most of all there is no argument that anything should be framed as Q vs. McHugh. It's what does Q do to their rotation, and team, as a whole?

Yeah I'm usually a big fan of Cameron but that article was garbage. Using one stat to compare the two without accounting for any of the other factors that pitchers don't have control over? Bringing up unearned runs in a Fangraphs article? Saying Quintana isn't a fit because one of their current top three would only get one playoff start in a series (way to put the cart way before the horse Dave)? Saying Keuchel/McCullers are a reliable top two despite the year Keuchel just had and McCullers still having yet to throw more than 125 innings in a year? Saying their rotation will be fine because Steamer has Paulino and Musgrove as league average starters next year? So many problems with that article, c'mon Dave.

[bmags]

I know I'm putting some sort of cart device ahead of a horse-like animal, but to me Meadows is equal to getting a Bregman/Swanson etc. He needs AAA time, but this is a big time offensive prospect. And I know I'm counting some sort of animal harvesting shell before the animal pops out, but a future of Anderson, Moncada, Meadows, Collins is

[hi8is]

Well... it's Wednesday.

[Dunt]

I know I'm putting some sort of cart device ahead of a horse-like animal, but to me Meadows is equal to getting a Bregman/Swanson etc. He needs AAA time, but this is a big time offensive prospect. And I know I'm counting some sort of animal harvesting shell before the animal pops out, but a future of Anderson, Moncada, Meadows, Collins is

 

With that pitching too

[Rowand44]

I bet the Pirates would give up one of Meadows/Bell but don't want to give up both. "Settling" on the 2nd and 3rd pieces will be the hold up here I'm betting.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Rowand44

[Bob Sacamano]

I bet the Pirates would give up one of Meadows/Bell but don't want to give up both. "Settling" on the 2nd and 3rd pieces will be the hold up here I'm betting.

 

Similar to the Sale deal (we wanted Devers as third piece, settled for Basabe and Diaz).

[Balta1701]

So, Balta, I know you're second (first?) team is the Bucs. What do you see as a fair trade for both sides? I see you included Bell in your lineup above, so I assume you think he's not going to be part of the package.

I would not say that my Second team was the Bucs, I just happened to live there for 2 years. I'm starting to get to know the Astros this year.

 

If I were in their GMs shoes, I would headline it with Meadows. I don't think they'll get the return for McCutchen they need, if he had a recovery year he's great for that franchise anyway, and Bell and their young pitchers are a perfect fit for their current needs.

 

Meadows, Elias Diaz (the White Sox need catching depth and the Pirates have Cervelli signed), and I don't know anything about Mitch Keller but him or Brault would make a strong top 3 package that the Pirates could part with, without doing any damage to their big league roster now or in the next 3 years.

[Baron]

But seriously they should ask for Diaz. One of the better catching prospects.

[Con te Giolito]

These Pirates fans I keep reading who say "Meadows and Glasnow to start..." or something similar have me too excited.

[he gone.]

I would not say that my Second team was the Bucs, I just happened to live there for 2 years. I'm starting to get to know the Astros this year.

 

If I were in their GMs shoes, I would headline it with Meadows. I don't think they'll get the return for McCutchen they need, if he had a recovery year he's great for that franchise anyway, and Bell and their young pitchers are a perfect fit for their current needs.

 

Meadows, Elias Diaz (the White Sox need catching depth and the Pirates have Cervelli signed), and I don't know anything about Mitch Keller but him or Brault would make a strong top 3 package that the Pirates could part with, without doing any damage to their big league roster now or in the next 3 years.

 

Whereabouts in Houston are you living? Lived down there myself a stint. Have some suggestions if you need any.

 

Myself, and this is just looking at the top 30 prospect list (something I've been doing a lot lately) I would rather do a deal with the Bucs or Astros than the Yanks or other teams being whispered about.

 

If I'm the Sox? Meadows and Bell are looking real good. That Catching "prospect" is 26 which gives me some pause. He may be decent, but if you're that old generally you have figured it out by now.

 

The Astros still have the pieces but are being stubborn. I like Reed and a few of their guys, but I for one would rather have hitting prospects rather than more pitching ... and as another poster said I think Meadows is really a Bregman in a way. Maybe a poor man's Bregman, but hard to tell this early in either career.

 

 

[reiks12]

These Pirates fans I keep reading who say "Meadows and Glasnow to start..." or something similar have me too excited.

 

They are much more reasonable than Astros fans. You would have thought Q was a garbage #5 the way they talked about him.

[Balta1701]

Whereabouts in Houston are you living? Lived down there myself a stint. Have some suggestions if you need any.

 

Myself, and this is just looking at the top 30 prospect list (something I've been doing a lot lately) I would rather do a deal with the Bucs or Astros than the Yanks or other teams being whispered about.

 

If I'm the Sox? Meadows and Bell are looking real good. That Catching "prospect" is 26 which gives me some pause. He may be decent, but if you're that old generally you have figured it out by now.

 

The Astros still have the pieces but are being stubborn. I like Reed and a few of their guys, but I for one would rather have hitting prospects rather than more pitching ... and as another poster said I think Meadows is really a Bregman in a way. Maybe a poor man's Bregman, but hard to tell this early in either career.

I'm in College Station (Aggieland) and thus about 1.5 hour drive from downtown Houston. If I'm still here next September I get the Sox for a 3 game series at whatever Minute Maid park is called for now.

 

I've said since Sale was traded that I can't fathom how the Astros would make the moves they made and go into this season with this rotation. They made strong, short term moves to upgrade their lineup. They won't give up Bregman fine...they have an all star laden infield, they have guys like Gurriel who could be moved to 1b, they absolutely need reliable starting pitching and they have the non-Bregman talent available to get it. On paper they're as good as the Rangers and Texas outperformed in 1 run games last year which you can't expect them to repeat, but on paper I'm looking at the Indians vs. Red Sox ALCS and thinking that series looks epic. The Astros have to change that dynamic.

[Con te Giolito]

Whereabouts in Houston are you living? Lived down there myself a stint. Have some suggestions if you need any.

 

Myself, and this is just looking at the top 30 prospect list (something I've been doing a lot lately) I would rather do a deal with the Bucs or Astros than the Yanks or other teams being whispered about.

 

If I'm the Sox? Meadows and Bell are looking real good. That Catching "prospect" is 26 which gives me some pause. He may be decent, but if you're that old generally you have figured it out by now.

The Astros still have the pieces but are being stubborn. I like Reed and a few of their guys, but I for one would rather have hitting prospects rather than more pitching ... and as another poster said I think Meadows is really a Bregman in a way. Maybe a poor man's Bregman, but hard to tell this early in either career.

Lucroy didn't have his breakout until age 26 if you're looking for a direct positional comparison. Plenty of players dont fully bloom until their late 20's. Most famous example right now is Josh Donaldson, but there are many guys like him.

 

As of right now I like the Yankees most, the Pirates as a close second and the Astros 3rd as far as actual rumored partners go. If you want to throw the Rockies into the pile they're about tied with the Astros.

[Polar Bear]

A few the things I've read say a deal with Pitt would be something like glasnow, diaz, ++

Edited December 21, 2016 by Moncada

[Baron]

Check out this post on the Astros forum

 

"Also, right now there isn't any competition to him"

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?thread....279088/page-19

 

Gave me a good laugh. Does this guy honestly think rumors being leaked mean no one is interested?