GGajewski18 Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (peppers312 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) is it at all possible that a sub-par White Sox team affects Quintana's value if he goes into the season as the #1? i mean what if the wheels come off because of a crappy team surrounding him and he has a bad year...? That's why you trade him now. Arguably, Q's value will never be higher, especially on a bad White Sox team. The time is to trade him for both the Sox and Q's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) Then he'd likely have another 24 no decision season or something like it and still have a metric s*** ton of value. Yeah, i think the only thing you need to worry about him is injury and with his history that's not much of a worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 03:34 PM) After reading around, sounds like a lot of Pittsburgh fans think Keller is as good of a prospect as Glasnow, just may not be recognized nationally as such yet. Meadows, Bell, Keller and Elias Diaz would have me very happy. I was just reading the Prospect List on the Pirates and thought the same package. I think the White Sox would have to throw a bullpen arm in there as well. Robertson or Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) How are the Pirates trading McCutchen and Meadows? Shift Marte to CF and Conforto to LF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (kwill @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:37 PM) I was just reading the Prospect List on the Pirates and thought the same package. I think the White Sox would have to throw a bullpen arm in there as well. Robertson or Jones. Meh. Jones is a lot more than a throw in. I want more if Jones is included. Robertson, sure I guess. Jennings maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) Shift Marte to CF and Conforto to LF? You think they view Conforto and Meadows evenly? Seems to me they're really high on Meadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:38 PM) Shift Marte to CF and Conforto to LF? They plan to put Marte in CF this year anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) FIP is a stat that takes team defense into account when evaluating a pitcher Quintana's career FIP of 3.47 is excellent He is certainly a top 20 mlb starting pitcher, no matter how you slice it If you're going with pitching stats I think SIERA is better. They are all still somewhat subjective but IMHO SIERA is the best at attempting to isolate a pitcher's performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:38 PM) Shift Marte to CF and Conforto to LF? This is the current plan as everything stands now for the Pirates so this^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) You think they view Conforto and Meadows evenly? Seems to me they're really high on Meadows. No? But adding an ace in Q and cushioning the blow of losing Cutch/Meadows by acquiring Conforto makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (peppers312 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) is it at all possible that a sub-par White Sox team affects Quintana's value if he goes into the season as the #1? i mean what if the wheels come off because of a crappy team surrounding him and he has a bad year...? If a bad team was going to negatively affect Quintana, then we would have seen that happen already. Next year's team is still likely to be better than the team in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 FIP is perhaps best suited to evaluating shorter-term performance, say 2 or 3 seasons for a starter. Past that, metrics that focus more on actual runs allowed will be better at evaluating a larger body of work. FIP can also be helpful for figuring out if a change in performance is legit...you might have a guy who has a 3.50 ERA one year and 2.50 ERA the next, but if his FIP is consistent over those two seasons he probably didn't pitch that much differently in either year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) I could see something more along the lines of: Mets get - McCutchen, Jones Pirates get - Q, Conforto Sox get - Meadows, Bell, Newman, Gsellman, Dunn/Plawecki I'd do this if the Sox could get Hayes and Brandon Nimmo as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 03:42 PM) No? But adding an ace in Q and cushioning the blow of losing Cutch/Meadows by acquiring Conforto makes sense to me. If the Pirates are willing to trade Meadows, then I would bet he's your Q centerpiece. If the Pirates aren't willing to trade Meadows, then I have to think that whatever they would get back for McCutchen would be a major piece of any deal to get Quintana, if they chose to move for Q (I do think they'd be less likely to make that move if they traded McCutchen, FWIW - they could put Meadows out there and hold on to see how their pitching staff develops). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) I could see something more along the lines of: Mets get - McCutchen, Jones Pirates get - Q, Conforto Sox get - Meadows, Bell, Newman, Gsellman, Dunn/Plawecki Are you referring to Justin Dunn or Kevin Plawecki as the final piece? There is a huge value difference between those two players This proposal effectively swaps McCutchen for Conforto straight up. Which I'm not sure makes sense to the Pirates. Mets effectively only give up Conforto/Gsellman/ (Dunn and Plawecki have hugely different values) for McCutchen + Jones which feels light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) Are you referring to Justin Dunn or Kevin Plawecki as the final piece? There is a huge value difference between those two players This proposal effectively swaps McCutchen for Conforto straight up. Which I'm not sure makes sense to the Pirates. Mets effectively only give up Conforto/Gsellman/ (Dunn and Plawecki have hugely different values) for McCutchen + Jones which feels light I dont think Rosario goes anywhere. I could see them including Dominic Smith, but not sure it makes sense to have both Smith and Bell coming to the Sox unless one is to DH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Holy s***, there are 140+ users reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 01:57 PM) The #Rangers are another club that's inquired on #WhiteSox Jose Quintana. But Texas is probably not serious suitor unless price drops. https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/811660260574380032 The teams discussed Quintana at trade deadline. Heard #WhiteSox wanted Profar and a "lot more.'' The ask was too steep for #Rangers tastes. https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/811660399171014656 I think Dodgers would be a good fit for Profar as they are looking to fill the hole at second base. Edited December 21, 2016 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) Holy s***, there are 140+ users reading this thread. Sox fans are just waiting for the proverbial hammer to fall on Quintana We are in the fortunate position of having leverage in trade talks. The market is the perfect storm for us to land a boatload of prospects. Any offer we get we will just say "Ok, thanks..." and then immediately call other teams and say "Guess what team X is offering me, can you beat that?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:55 PM) I think Dodgers would be a good fit for Profar as they are looking to fill the hole at second base. Profar has not been impressive to anyone since 2012 His days as being seen as a top prospect are long gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) Holy s***, there are 140+ users reading this thread. QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:55 PM) Sox fans are just waiting for the proverbial hammer to fall on Quintana We are in the fortunate position of having leverage in trade talks. The market is the perfect storm for us to land a boatload of prospects. Any offer we get we will just say "Ok, thanks..." and then immediately call other teams and say "Guess what team X is offering me, can you beat that?" All these people checking and nothing may even happen until July haha I'm hoping if something happens, its before the holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:52 PM) Holy s***, there are 140+ users reading this thread. IT IS WEDNESDAY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:57 PM) Profar has not been impressive to anyone since 2012 His days as being seen as a top prospect are long gone Yeah I know I was just spit-balling. There's no room for him to get at bats in Texas and he would probably be cheaper than Dozier coming off a 40+ bomb season. I'd prefer Profar over Micah Johnson. Edit: s***, maybe if they fill the hole at second without giving up anyone too important, maybe they can jump back into the pitching market. Edited December 21, 2016 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) I heard that Meadows is unavailable, because they still expect to trade McCutchen, and Meadows would be the heir apparent. Where did you hear this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) If you're going with pitching stats I think SIERA is better. They are all still somewhat subjective but IMHO SIERA is the best at attempting to isolate a pitcher's performance. If you're focusing on SIERA, Carlos Rodon posted the 25th best SIERA in the majors leagues in 2016...very interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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