Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[Kyyle23]

Moves will be made, but very minor ones, especially next offseason.

 

i dont know, I dont think it will be as barren wasteland as you think. They are in full asset acquisition mode right now, they should be looking for bounce back potential players that they can flip, for the next few seasons. On top of that, we will/should be watching the development of a lot of young exciting players, hopefully at the major league level as soon as eligible.

[southsider2k5]

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 28m28 minutes ago

Idle thought: Could @whitesox land switch-hitting prodigy Josh Bell & Tyler Glasnow from Pirates in deal for Quintana & Todd Frazier?

 

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 26m26 minutes ago

@whitesox want Austin Meadows in Jose Quintana deal but Josh Bell also fits the need for young hitters w/big upside.

 

Glad to see they are pushing for Meadows. That is the type of headliner they need.

[Mattchoo]

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 28m28 minutes ago

Idle thought: Could @whitesox land switch-hitting prodigy Josh Bell & Tyler Glasnow from Pirates in deal for Quintana & Todd Frazier?

 

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 26m26 minutes ago

@whitesox want Austin Meadows in Jose Quintana deal but Josh Bell also fits the need for young hitters w/big upside.

 

 

I see a variety of issues with the first tweet.

 

1) Bell & Glasnow for Q and Todd Frazier is not good value for the Sox.

2) The Pirates would never want to take on all that salary. They'd require the Sox to eat the salary. This would make it even worse value of a trade for Sox.

 

Now if it was Q and Todd Frazier and all of Frazier's 2017 salary, then the return from PITT would need to be Meadows, Bell, Glasnow, and Newman/Keller. I doubt the Pirates want to gut their top prospects for just Q and Frazier, even though this is closer to fair value for Sox.

[Bananarchy]

After the Sox trade Q and Robertson and Frazier or Melky, it's going to be really hard to be a White Sox fan. The team will absolutely suck, and next offseason there will be very little action. They will not have much to trade. They won't be signing big names.

Fickle. Should have known.

 

I'm ready to draft talent and develop from within.

[Bob Sacamano]

I see a variety of issues with the first tweet.

 

1) Bell & Glasnow for Q and Todd Frazier is not good value for the Sox.

2) The Pirates would never want to take on all that salary. They'd require the Sox to eat the salary. This would make it even worse value of a trade for Sox.

 

Now if it was Q and Todd Frazier and all of Frazier's 2017 salary, then the return from PITT would need to be Meadows, Bell, Glasnow, and Newman/Keller. I doubt the Pirates want to gut their top prospects for just Q and Frazier, even though this is closer to fair value for Sox.

 

I don't think he is suggesting a 2-for-2 swap. Just that they would be in the deal.

[Bob Sacamano]

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 28m28 minutes ago

Idle thought: Could @whitesox land switch-hitting prodigy Josh Bell & Tyler Glasnow from Pirates in deal for Quintana & Todd Frazier?

 

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 26m26 minutes ago

@whitesox want Austin Meadows in Jose Quintana deal but Josh Bell also fits the need for young hitters w/big upside.

 

Is this the first time we've seen for certain that this is who we want? Or do you think he's just assuming.

[Focurjay]

I've thought the same thing really...wondered if I'm going to watch as many games, wondered if I'm going to set aside as much time/money to come see them play in Chicago as I normally do. But I don't know how much of my fandom will actually change. White Sox baseball is still a large part of who I am...and rarely do the players and the team's success have much to do with it. It's like every day is a good day--but some are just better than others. But everyday is a good day...there's the team, the pinstripes, the black and white, the strategy, the human element, the green grass, the history, the memories. Watching a game still provides at least a couple hours a day where we can just watch baseball and admire the sights and sounds of summer. Those are good days to be alive. Some teams are better than others and like you say, some flat out suck. But there's still that 2 hour experience almost every day that re-calibrates you to some good times in the past--the hope for something great to happen and the possibility that anything could happen. All while soaking in the warm weather and watching the evening come in around a large group of people who have shared many of the exact moments you have. That's not easy to replicate.

 

This made my day

[southsider2k5]

Is this the first time we've seen for certain that this is who we want? Or do you think he's just assuming.

 

It is the most definitive report of who we want that I can remember.

[bmags]

It's a Catch 22. You want this to come to a head, but then you have a draft, and minor league or reclamation project signings for another year or 2. Nothing earthshattering. Although it will be interesting to see what the plan is at C. I find it hard to believe the plan is Narvaez and Smith.

 

The thing is we are talking about only a few months before we are already probably watching 2-3 of these guys at MLB club.

 

When sox are contending, everything for me is output related. I just want to win no matter how we are doing it.

 

When we are rebuilding, I'm just concerned about inputs. How is ta playing the game? How is rodon throwing. Each enjoyable if they are not sucking themselves.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Not a bet I'm taking. I don't think Sox need to target DH now with assumption they may be expensive in four years.

Depends who might want to take a 1 or 2 year contract. Say if Trumbo was signed by the Sox and at the trade deadline had 30 HR's that's just trade bait for more prospects . Of course contract plays a large role but he is more of a sure thing than spending on cheap bounce back types and contenders like sure things.

[Southwest Sider]

It's really too bad Pittsburgh is depending on Meadows to be their next big outfielder. They need him, and sadly he isn't as expendable to them as Moncada or Benitendi were to the Red Sox. Although all reports seemed that Boston was not giving up Benitendi anyway, but we will never know if that's true or not. Bell and Meadows sure are interesting prospects, but from the opinions I've seen on here, neither are 1A or 1B type of prospects like Boston had with Moncada and Benitendi. That's just not enough to push a deal over the finish line for the White Sox. The only way I see a Pirates trade working is a 3 team deal in which the Pirates are somehow able to acquire a big time prospect for McCutchen, and the likelihood of that is very slim. There's slim pickings for Q suitors, it seems. Houston doesn't like him enough, Yankees want to keep all their new prospects, Pirates simply don't have enough, Rockies... who knows with them.

 

I really hope a deal is made, but the more time that goes on the less likely it seems. Getting a few great prospects for Q is very important for the rebuild, in my humble opinion. Trading him during the season is a possibility, yes, but don't teams normally seek players with less term on their contracts during the season? There will be more pitchers available, with less term, for a cheaper price than Quintana will cost, no doubt. And while a Q trade is also possible next offseason, there is also a better class of free agent starting pitchers to contend with.

 

If you are not confident about the Sox's chances of moving Q for a better package after this offseason is over, do you eventually settle for the best offer, provided it is reasonable and is something like Bell, Glasnow ++, or do you risk the possibility of injury and potentially lessened market for Q after this offseason in hopes of getting that blue chip headliner in a trade? Or do you just keep him if a solid deal never materializes?

Edited January 3, 2017 by South Sider

[bmags]

I don't want to be too pessimistic as any rumor is welcome but I don't trust that Phil Rogers in a series of tweets that starts with "Idle Thought" necessarily means that he has heard sox want meadows vs. him actually saying "sox WOULD want Meadows".

 

Not saying he would be wrong in assessment but from way he usually tweets I just am skeptical he is actually sourced on that info.

[southsider2k5]

I don't want to be too pessimistic as any rumor is welcome but I don't trust that Phil Rogers in a series of tweets that starts with "Idle Thought" necessarily means that he has heard sox want meadows vs. him actually saying "sox WOULD want Meadows".

 

Not saying he would be wrong in assessment but from way he usually tweets I just am skeptical he is actually sourced on that info.

 

It is literally the only thing in those tweets that isn't a question of some kind. It could be that he left out the "would" part, all though that would be depressing. The other side is that the Sox wanting Meadows makes sense, otherwise I think the deal would be done already.

[Con te Giolito]

It is literally the only thing in those tweets that isn't a question of some kind. It could be that he left out the "would" part, all though that would be depressing. The other side is that the Sox wanting Meadows makes sense, otherwise I think the deal would be done already.

Right. If the Pirates could acquire Quintana without Meadows he'd already be on the Pirates. Its nice that somebody in the media seems to be reporting it but it isn't difficult to surmise what the Sox are asking from Pittsburgh.

[royoung]

Right. If the Pirates could acquire Quintana without Meadows he'd already be on the Pirates. Its nice that somebody in the media seems to be reporting it but it isn't difficult to surmise what the Sox are asking from Pittsburgh.

 

I think the Pirates could acquire Q without Meadows quite easily (Sox aren't turning down Glasnow/Bell/Newman/Keller) but its a game of chicken figuring out how those remaining pieces fit. I think the Pirates are trying to unload McCutchen first and that pursuit is holding up their offer.

[Con te Giolito]

I think the Pirates could acquire Q without Meadows quite easily (Sox aren't turning down Glasnow/Bell/Newman/Keller) but its a game of chicken figuring out how those remaining pieces fit. I think the Pirates are trying to unload McCutchen first and that pursuit is holding up their offer.

Well yea...I suppose the Pirates could gut their entire farm system and pick up Quintana but realistically speaking a 3 or 4 player return modeled after the Boston return that didnt include Meadows would be a no-brainer for the Pirates.

[steveno89]

I think the Pirates could acquire Q without Meadows quite easily (Sox aren't turning down Glasnow/Bell/Newman/Keller) but its a game of chicken figuring out how those remaining pieces fit. I think the Pirates are trying to unload McCutchen first and that pursuit is holding up their offer.

 

I highly doubt Pittsburgh would be willing to offer a Glasnow, bell, Newman and Keller package for Quintana. No team can clear out that much future talent for one player, even Quintana

[royoung]

Well yea...I suppose the Pirates could gut their entire farm system and pick up Quintana but realistically speaking a 3 or 4 player return modeled after the Boston return that didnt include Meadows would be a no-brainer for the Pirates.

 

I don't think a team like the Pirates can really afford to "gut their entire farm system" like a Boston or Washington could. I would guess they would try to restock it partially with a Cutch deal, but nobody seems willing to pay that price either. So we wait.

[royoung]

I highly doubt Pittsburgh would be willing to offer a Glasnow, bell, Newman and Keller package for Quintana. No team can clear out that much future talent for one player, even Quintana

 

Exactly. I would be happy with three of those players in a deal for Q. I was just illustrating that they could easily pull off a Quintana trade without Meadows.

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't think a team like the Pirates can really afford to "gut their entire farm system" like a Boston or Washington could. I would guess they would try to restock it partially with a Cutch deal, but nobody seems willing to pay that price either. So we wait.

 

Pirates could also deal Quintana (and anyone else: McCutchen like you said, Nova, etc.) to replenish the farm in 2-3 years if they wanted.

Edited January 3, 2017 by soxfan2014

[Mattchoo]

I don't think a team like the Pirates can really afford to "gut their entire farm system" like a Boston or Washington could. I would guess they would try to restock it partially with a Cutch deal, but nobody seems willing to pay that price either. So we wait.

 

I agree with this thinking.

 

However, for PITT in particular, I believe McCutchen has 2 years left on his deal. So if they think they are good enough inserting Q and removing prospects to make the playoffs, then they should roll the dice this year because if it fails then they could just trade McCutchen next offseason.

[Mattchoo]

Pirates could also deal Quintana (and anyone else: McCutchen like you said, Nova, etc.) to replenish the farm in 2-3 years if they wanted.

 

Exactly. They could in theory re-trade Q.

[tray]

The heart of the Cubs rebuild was 4 or 5 young star position players. Once those players came up, the Cubs signed numerous veteran position players - ( Montero, Ross, Lastella, Zobrist, Heyward, Dexter Fowler) and several veteran pitchers. They spent a lot of money to build that roster. Other teams have approached rebuilding by focusing even more on free agents. Whatever works.

 

For the White Sox, I don't envision a long slog to rebuild. That is based on two basic factors. First, I do not think Sox fans will be as patient as some claim they will be. Second, Reinsdorf wants to win and will spend money once he sees a path forward. Those old enough may recall when Reinsdorf/Einhorn acquired Fisk and Luzinski. They built a pretty decent roster around them, even though they never won it. And the 2005 World Series champs were not a team built after a long rebuilding effort.

 

Now, the Sox need to assemble a core of 4 or 5 excellent position players. They already have a pretty decent core of pitching prospects. So Moncada, Tim Anderson and hopefully Zack Collins and perhaps two more premier position players. One might come soon, in a trade for Quintana. Then perhaps get lucky by flipping Gonzo mid season for a prospect if he has a decent year or getting a top prospect for Abreu during the season if he returns to his earlier form. No long term slog will be tolerated by fans or the Sox ownership. We may not get much in the 2017 Draft at #12, and who knows where we will Draft in 2018. So, as soon as this team starts showing it can start to compete, it will be time to start signing players, including free agents to add to the young core.

 

I don't see the Sox tanking the team in 2017. No way they will be as bad as 4 or 5 other teams, even if they try. Another Fulmer or Rodon is not worth tanking a season. The Sox will try to compete in 2017 to the extent they can. I will root for them to win every game they can. I'm not sitting back waiting to win. Field the best team possible and play the games to win.

 

 

[Con te Giolito]

Pirates could also deal Quintana (and anyone else: McCutchen like you said, Nova, etc.) to replenish the farm in 2-3 years if they wanted.

The Pirates are so good at drafting and development they replenish the farm system every 2 or 3 years without trading away anyone. They have a Meadows-like (or better) outfield prospect about every other year. First McCutchen, then Marte, then Polanco (dark horse MVP candidate, get ready for the breakout this year) now Meadows, they are extremely good at finding and developing young outfielders. Probably the best in the baseball at it.

 

And it kind of brings up a flaw in Pittsburgh's thinking here re: Cutch and Meadows. Their fear is that in 2 years McCutchen walks, then Pirates get nothing, and there's nobody on the farm to replace him. So they are trying to get out in front of that by getting what they can for Cutch now (even though his value has cratered) and using Meadows to take his place. Normally that would make sense but if history is any indication the last thing Pittsburgh , of all teams, should be worried about is nothing having a young OF on the farm two years from now. Maybe they will need a bridge player in 2019, but that's probably the worst-case scenario.

 

Meadows is excess for them and Quintana really is a perfect guy to exchange that excess for. It gives them two years (and probably more) not only to compete with the Cubs and Cardinals in the AL Central, but also two years to develop a hier apparent in CF. McCutchen still walks at the end but look around baseball and ask yourself who is going to give the Pirates more value in a trade than what they would get out of two seasons of Cutch. The Nationals might've but the Sox outdid them with Eaton.

 

The only argument left is that they are running scared because the big bad Cubs caught lightning in a bottle with that pitching staff and rode it hard. If that's really how the Pirates org feels they should all quit their jobs and find something else to do. You're in this game to compete and Pittsburgh's roster is without a doubt a contending roster with Quintana.

[chitownsportsfan]

The heart of the Cubs rebuild was 4 or 5 young star position players. Once those players came up, the Cubs signed numerous veteran position players - ( Montero, Ross, Lastella, Zobrist, Heyward, Dexter Fowler) and several veteran pitchers. They spent a lot of money to build that roster. Other teams have approached rebuilding by focusing even more on free agents. Whatever works.

 

For the White Sox, I don't envision a long slog to rebuild. That is based on two basic factors. First, I do not think Sox fans will be as patient as some claim they will be. Second, Reinsdorf wants to win and will spend money once he sees a path forward. Those old enough may recall when Reinsdorf/Einhorn acquired Fisk and Luzinski. They built a pretty decent roster around them, even though they never won it. And the 2005 World Series champs were not a team built after a long rebuilding effort.

 

Now, the Sox need to assemble a core of 4 or 5 excellent position players. They already have a pretty decent core of pitching prospects. So Moncada, Tim Anderson and hopefully Zack Collins and perhaps two more premier position players. One might come soon, in a trade for Quintana. Then perhaps get lucky by flipping Gonzo mid season for a prospect if he has a decent year or getting a top prospect for Abreu during the season if he returns to his earlier form. No long term slog will be tolerated by fans or the Sox ownership. We may not get much in the 2017 Draft at #12, and who knows where we will Draft in 2018. So, as soon as this team starts showing it can start to compete, it will be time to start signing players, including free agents to add to the young core.

 

I don't see the Sox tanking the team in 2017. No way they will be as bad as 4 or 5 other teams, even if they try. Another Fulmer or Rodon is not worth tanking a season. The Sox will try to compete in 2017 to the extent they can. I will root for them to win every game they can. I'm not sitting back waiting to win. Field the best team possible and play the games to win.

 

One of these is not like the other. One is completely worth tanking for, the other is not. I've showed the graph time and time again: expected WAR of the first 2-3 picks is much, much greater than the rest of the 1st round. You need to suck hard to get the potential superstars. Yes, they don't always pan out, but more often than not if you draft top 3 you get at least an average MLB player eventually.