Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[hi8is]

It's not a matter of patience, it's just my opinion that this isn't a full rebuild. We will see who is right on opening day.

Opening day isn't a deadline when we're talking about this team rebuilding. Come on man, catch up.

[Baron]

I don't think this is a genuine effort to rebuild. I believe they just got rid of the guys that management didnt get along with. The same thing happened with the Bulls.

 

They didnt like Thibs the day he started and he still got a contract extension

[T R U]

It's not a matter of patience, it's just my opinion that this isn't a full rebuild. We will see who is right on opening day.

 

Not gonna lie, im starting to lean in that direction as well. Moncada, Giolito, Lopez are all guys who could not only start on the OD roster, but will more than likely make it there this season..

 

If Quintana gets traded, its definitely a full on rebuild.. but man, there is a lot of evidence to suggest, at the least, that they got rid of the two problem children

[Con te Giolito]

Yankees could put together a good package for Quintana without Frazier or Torres, but I doubt they are willing to go as far as the Pirates are. The Astros are in la la land (not the movie) and the Rangers would have to give up Mazara, Gallo and Profar to even get things started and I think the Pirates are already offering better deals than that.

 

That's just my read on this situation.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Con te Giolito

[Dick Allen]

Heyman on MLBN:

Q to Pittsburgh Longshot

Q to Yankees not serious

Thinks he winds up in Houston

[103 mph screwball]

They aren't going to deal Q. The roster isn't going to be dramatically different aside from Robertson gone. That's how Reinsdorf does things.

 

 

This would not shock me at all. And if that happens, it would not shock me that somehow the Sox compete. Baseball can be funny that way. All indications from Hahn point to rebuild.

[Bob Sacamano]

Heyman on MLBN:

Q to Pittsburgh Longshot

Q to Yankees not serious

Thinks he winds up in Houston

 

I think Houston plays the wait and see game for the first half of the year before deciding to add an arm.

[hi8is]

I think Houston plays the wait and see game for the first half of the year before deciding to add an arm.

Highly likely they're counting on a return to form. Bastards. Oh well... maybe next Wednesday.

[bighurt574]

Not gonna lie, im starting to lean in that direction as well. Moncada, Giolito, Lopez are all guys who could not only start on the OD roster, but will more than likely make it there this season..

 

If Quintana gets traded, its definitely a full on rebuild.. but man, there is a lot of evidence to suggest, at the least, that they got rid of the two problem children

 

Unless the Sox are flat out lying, they've made pretty clear they'll be giving these guys plenty of time to develop in the minors.

 

And if this wasn't a rebuild, they would have seemingly been more active on the free agent market.

Edited December 22, 2016 by bighurt574

[Quin]

 

Q's curveball at :58 is so beautiful.

[BlackSox13]

Unless the Sox are flat out lying, they've made pretty clear they'll be giving these guys plenty of time to develop in the minors.

 

And if this wasn't a rebuild, they would have seemingly been more active on the free agent market.

Agreed. Hahn has said plenty of times these guys are likely starting the season in the minors and will not be rushed which makes sense when looking at the Sox roster as of now. There's only a small market for Frazier/ Robertson and literally none for Melky/Lowrie so we likely start the season with them and look to move Frazier/Robertson in July and hope that Melky/Lowrie can play well enough to get something in return. There's no need to trade Q if teams won't pay and with four years of control left he will have plenty of value at the deadline and next winter. None the less I still think a team will blink and trade for Q. As for Abreu, I don't think the Sox are too interested in trading Abreu and probably prefer to keep him around to mentor Moncada when he's ready for a call up which IMO is the right move unless a team offers a big overpay.

 

Another point is a team does not trade it's best pitcher and overall hitter for prospects that very from A to 3A experience if they are not rebuilding. This is a different and better strategy than what the Sox have used in recent years with the "rebuilding on the fly" and " retooling" routes previously taken.

 

I've taken my fair share of shots at JR but I give him credit for going ahead and rebuilding. Never thought he would do it at 80 years old but he's proved me wrong.

Edited December 22, 2016 by BlackSox13

[ozzfest]

Not gonna lie, im starting to lean in that direction as well. Moncada, Giolito, Lopez are all guys who could not only start on the OD roster, but will more than likely make it there this season..

 

If Quintana gets traded, its definitely a full on rebuild.. but man, there is a lot of evidence to suggest, at the least, that they got rid of the two problem children

Yep.

[BlackSox13]

 

Q's curveball at :58 is so beautiful.

The one that buckled big Papi for a called strike three? Nasty!

 

 

 

 

[hi8is]

 

Q's curveball at :58 is so beautiful.

Such a badass.

 

Season starts today we have a starting 5 of what...

 

Q

Rodon

Shields

Holland

Gonzalez

 

Not to shabby - let's win this thing

[bmags]

 

Q's curveball at :58 is so beautiful.

 

I was at that game

[witesoxfan]

That is the exact opposite of what is being reported re:Robertson.

 

I think if they rush to move him, they'd regret it. $25 million over 2 years for a reliever with his upside is something very affordable in this market. He's not at the level of a guy like Miller or Chapman, but he could easily be just a step below that, which still has large value on the open market.

 

Put another way, if the return they got for him was Jorge Soler, I'd be disappointed. Given, the Royals are also looking to capitalize on major league talent, while the Sox are looking at future value, so that's part of the reason too, but I think Robertson is worth more than that.

 

Jones is definitely far more valuable.

[BlackSox13]

Heyman on MLBN:

Q to Pittsburgh Longshot

Q to Yankees not serious

Thinks he winds up in Houston

Well, yesterday's discussions were about the Yanks, today about Pitt so should we expect an Astros rumor/tweet sometime tomorrow morning? That would bring us back full circle.

[Con te Giolito]

Barring a surprise Abreu trade, I think I'm gonna miss Q more than anyone else dealt this offseason. I thought the Sale trade was pretty bad, but at least I had come around to letting go of Sale. Same goes for Eaton, and the return in that trade really washed away any tears about his departure.

 

But there is a workmanlike quality to Quintana that will not be easy to replicate with the kind of production Q has provided. He's gotta go, it's what is best long term, but in my heart of hearts I'd rather keep him.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Couple thoughts about a Quintana trade. Some of us need a perspective check because I keep hearing sheepish suggestions of trade offers--many leaving out the top names of other teams' prospect lists.

 

Reiterating what another poster brought up earlier...we got Moncada and Giolito in trades earlier this off season. Those are top 5 prospects. I'm really surprised to see so many posters say certain prospects are "surely off limits" when we have already been receiving the very top 1-5 prospects in the game as a starting point to even larger packages! When guys like Austin Meadows are mentioned--they are blue chip prospects, but not even top 5--I'm looking at what else can be added to get that value up--not whether Meadows would be available--it's more whether they have the depth to add enough to Meadows to get a deal done. The fact that we are even talking to the Pirates is BECAUSE they have a guy like Meadows to headline a package that would be enough to get Q. There are many teams right now who do NOT have that top 10 name to START the discussion.

 

SO...if you are one who has been nervously hesitant to bring up certain prospects' names as if to say we shouldn't even mention them...I would suggest thinking MUCH bigger--because if they are a prospect at ANY level of the game, they ARE in play for a player like Quintana. Quintana isn't just a guy you trade for, he's a guy who you break the bank to make sure YOU are the team who gets him and not a competitor--because whoever gets him will be enabled to acquire a young, controllable all-star front line starter at virtually no cost $ wise. So yes...to pay for that will require a complete scrounging of whatever value your minor league system holds and hope your offer is more than just about every other team who has intentions of contending in the next 3 years. Especially if you are smaller market with a lower free agent budget, this is your very rare shot to acquire a difference maker for very little monetary compensation.

 

On the flip side...if you're the Sox...you can choose which package suits your liking the most. If you don't see that top 5, top 10 name, or an offer that might lack that name but is VERY saturated with multiple top 50 names, you confidently say Merry Christmas to you and yours, but no thank you!

 

 

Good post. Meadows has to be the headliner. Not only that but I was thinking Q could require a bigger haul than Sale since he has 1 more year and is cheaper than Sale. Plus the Sale trade had the #1 prospect in baseball who cost the Red Sox around $64M which maybe Hahn took into consideration as far as valuations go.

 

5 prospects ( some of whom will bust) headlined by Meadows for a really inexpensive very good pitcher, to keep for 4 years, or flip him and recover some of what they paid for him, while he possibly leads your team to the playoffs or a World Championship, and your team cannot pay market rate for any superstars thus limiting your means to an end, is not asking for too much.

 

Edit. If a trade happens with the Pirates and the Sox get Bell I have dibs on the " Cool Papa" Bell nickname.

 

 

 

[Jerksticks]

Barring a surprise Abreu trade, I think I'm gonna miss Q more than anyone else dealt this offseason. I thought the Sale trade was pretty bad, but at least I had come around to letting go of Sale. Same goes for Eaton, and the return in that trade really washed away any tears about his departure.

 

But there is a workmanlike quality to Quintana that will not be easy to replicate with the kind of production Q has provided. He's gotta go, it's what is best long term, but in my heart of hearts I'd rather keep him.

Well put sir

[caulfield12]

The problem with Q is the same one that Nats/Rizzo have with Eaton.

 

As Sox fans and with most of us aware of even the simplest metrics like WAR, we all know the values of Eaton and Q, and can articulate arguments why Q might be worth the same or even more (rather than the 95% often-quoted) than Chris Sale.

 

HOWEVER, if that Eaton trade blows up for the Nationals or any future trade for Q, the respective fanbases will be even more enraged because at least Chris Sale's a known quantity to nearly every baseball fan...the old, well, Dombrowski really rolled the dice and "went for it" line of thinking.

 

When you're trading the same packages or potentially better ones for "non-star" players that aren't going to draw fans by name recognition alone, it's a dicier game for GM's. Another good example would be Shelby Miller, who was acquired partially because of "attachment/sentimental" reasons by LaRussa. When those trades go bad, they get you fired.

 

 

 

With all that said, there will be a ton of GM's interested in Q still because they know his true value, contract, everything...and that doesn't mean we have to lower our trade expectations because of everything I just highlighted. But it's an additional factor to consider.

Edited December 22, 2016 by caulfield12

[BlackSox13]

Barring a surprise Abreu trade, I think I'm gonna miss Q more than anyone else dealt this offseason. I thought the Sale trade was pretty bad, but at least I had come around to letting go of Sale. Same goes for Eaton, and the return in that trade really washed away any tears about his departure.

 

But there is a workmanlike quality to Quintana that will not be easy to replicate with the kind of production Q has provided. He's gotta go, it's what is best long term, but in my heart of hearts I'd rather keep him.

I'm with ya. Going into the off season I think there was a thread about which pitcher fans would prefer to trade/keep. My choice was trade Sale and keep Q. I like Q's consistency, durability and I like how he quietly goes about his business. He and Abreu both are the quiet leader types.

 

Honestly, if the pitching market wasn't so bare I'd rather keep Q but if a team is willing to meet Hahn's high price then go for it. If Q ends up staying with the Sox I sure as hell won't complain.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The problem with Q is the same one that Nats/Rizzo have with Eaton.

 

As Sox fans and with most of us aware of even the simplest metrics like WAR, we all know the values of Eaton and Q, and can articulate arguments why Q might be worth the same or even more (rather than the 95% often-quoted) than Chris Sale.

 

HOWEVER, if that Eaton trade blows up for the Nationals or any future trade for Q, the respective fanbases will be even more enraged because at least Chris Sale's a known quantity to nearly every baseball fan...the old, well, Dombrowski really rolled the dice and "went for it" line of thinking.

 

When you're trading the same packages or potentially better ones for "non-star" players that aren't going to draw fans by name recognition alone, it's a dicier game for GM's. Another good example would be Shelby Miller, who was acquired partially because of "attachment/sentimental" reasons by LaRussa. When those trades go bad, they get you fired.

 

 

 

With all that said, there will be a ton of GM's interested in Q still because they know his true value, contract, everything...and that doesn't mean we have to lower our trade expectations because of everything I just highlighted. But it's an additional factor to consider.

I don't think it's a factor between the GM's/ teams making the deal. I can't see the Pirates GM saying " hey Rick your killing me here asking for all that. I don't want to be Rizzo-ized . Besides after the initiial backlash against Rizzo its come back around to well Giolito isn't everything he's cracked up to be. Backlash is just peoplse opinion all copying each other. The results of the Eaton trade won't be known for a few years.

[Con te Giolito]

I don't think it's a factor between the GM's/ teams making the deal. I can't see the Pirates GM saying " hey Rick your killing me here asking for all that. I don't want to be Rizzo-ized . Besides after the initiial backlash against Rizzo its come back around to well Giolito isn't everything he's cracked up to be. Backlash is just peoplse opinion all copying each other. The results of the Eaton trade won't be known for a few years.

 

What got Rizzo in trouble was him letting it be known that he was down on Giolito. You can't devalue your own guys like that, especially a guy who 6 months prior was the best farm arm in the game.

 

[ptatc]

The problem with Q is the same one that Nats/Rizzo have with Eaton.

 

As Sox fans and with most of us aware of even the simplest metrics like WAR, we all know the values of Eaton and Q, and can articulate arguments why Q might be worth the same or even more (rather than the 95% often-quoted) than Chris Sale.

 

HOWEVER, if that Eaton trade blows up for the Nationals or any future trade for Q, the respective fanbases will be even more enraged because at least Chris Sale's a known quantity to nearly every baseball fan...the old, well, Dombrowski really rolled the dice and "went for it" line of thinking.

 

When you're trading the same packages or potentially better ones for "non-star" players that aren't going to draw fans by name recognition alone, it's a dicier game for GM's. Another good example would be Shelby Miller, who was acquired partially because of "attachment/sentimental" reasons by LaRussa. When those trades go bad, they get you fired.

 

 

 

With all that said, there will be a ton of GM's interested in Q still because they know his true value, contract, everything...and that doesn't mean we have to lower our trade expectations because of everything I just highlighted. But it's an additional factor to consider.

there is no scenario where this is true. The teams trading for Q want to make the playoffs. Sale is better than Q. sale has a better chance of getting the team to the playoffs and WS. The Sox will not get the same talent in return for Q that they did for Sale.