Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[ptatc]

Yes, if the losing is purposeful. Now that line is sometimes difficult to see. But clearly since 2009, the Sox were trying to win and losing. This year (and the next), it is clear the Sox are trying to lose. "Mired in mediocrity" is the worst position to be in, IMO.

I guess i can see that. But again your enjoyment is tied to eventual winning.

 

i enjoy going to watch baseball.

[LittleHurt05]

Agreed.

 

Loads of high draft picks have done little to help the White Sox system the last few years.

 

Say what? From 2010-2015 the White Sox had five first round draft picks. 4 of them have already appeared in the majors. You can't ask for much more than that.

[Buehrlesque]

I think a lot of people are severely overestimating the amount of time this team will be bad, and how they will be losing intentionally. 2017 will be mostly garbage, no doubt. But really, that's about it. This isn't the kind of rebuild where a moribund, barren franchise begins from zero, accumulating teenagers through draft picks. Thanks to their roster of great players with great contracts (that paradoxically did not produce a great team), the Sox are acquiring close to major league ready, impact talent. Things will change much more quickly than some people seem to think. Especially in the two-Wildcard era, this team will be competing by 2019 for sure, possibly even 2018.

[bmags]

Before the trades the Sox were a bottom third system despite sucking for 5 years. You're saying sucking for 3 years will give them a bunch of draft picks that will improve the system, but if that's the case then why didn't sucking for the last 5 years improve the system?

 

Part of this is moving players very aggressively, we had been up to 12 before several graduations. The other part was a 2015 draft with only one pick in first four rounds (erwin gone)

[Jordan4life_2007]

The White Sox will never have the back-to-back season of massive spending like the Cubs had. 2 of the Cubs top 8 players by WAR are not homegrown, the next two after that are Hendry picks. Following their model and fetishizing losing for a half decade will bring ruin to the Sox.

 

You're overthinking it. The Sox will be locked in and ready to go come 2019.

[maggsmaggs]

I guess i can see that. But again your enjoyment is tied to eventual winning.

 

i enjoy going to watch baseball.

But the thing is there is almost nothing they could do this offseason to win this year. They just don't have the resources to sign someone to a huge deal nor do they have the prospects to make such a move.

 

It would be piecemeal additions, which has consistently failed over and over for this organization.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Before the trades the Sox were a bottom third system despite sucking for 5 years. You're saying sucking for 3 years will give them a bunch of draft picks that will improve the system, but if that's the case then why didn't sucking for the last 5 years improve the system?

 

top 3. it's hard to mess up with multiple top 3 picks.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Jordan4life

[NCsoxfan]

I think a lot of people are severely overestimating the amount of time this team will be bad, and how they will be losing intentionally. 2017 will be mostly garbage, no doubt. But really, that's about it. This isn't the kind of rebuild where a moribund, barren franchise begins from zero, accumulating teenagers through draft picks. Thanks to their roster of great players with great contracts (that paradoxically did not produce a great team), the Sox are acquiring close to major league ready, impact talent. Things will change much more quickly than some people seem to think. Especially in the two-Wildcard era, this team will be competing by 2019 for sure, possibly even 2018.

 

I agree, but then I think "What makes me think that losing Sale, Eaton, Quintana, and others will yield a better team?" These prospects and replacements not only have to equal the players lost, but exceed them as well. The proverbial one step backwards for two steps forward is great, but the one step backwards is still a big one.

[illinilaw08]

Say what? From 2010-2015 the White Sox had five first round draft picks. 4 of them have already appeared in the majors. You can't ask for much more than that.

 

This. The Sox sin over the last several years is that, because there was no depth in the system, they rushed their best prospects to the majors. The refreshing part of this rebuild is that they will promote guys to the majors when they are ready - not in an effort to win now.

[Mattchoo]

I think a lot of people are severely overestimating the amount of time this team will be bad, and how they will be losing intentionally. 2017 will be mostly garbage, no doubt. But really, that's about it. This isn't the kind of rebuild where a moribund, barren franchise begins from zero, accumulating teenagers through draft picks. Thanks to their roster of great players with great contracts (that paradoxically did not produce a great team), the Sox are acquiring close to major league ready, impact talent. Things will change much more quickly than some people seem to think. Especially in the two-Wildcard era, this team will be competing by 2019 for sure, possibly even 2018.

 

This!

 

I was just about to post this. We are in a very unique situation because the FO is trying to acquire the top prospects throughout baseball via our older MLB stars. Essentially, this is a quicker reset because we are infusing our system with our own high picks AND high talented prospects of other teams. This rebuild could in theory be done in 2018 or 2019 season if the like half the players hit their ceiling.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Mattchoo

[NCsoxfan]

Excerpt from a Buster Olney insider article:

 

"The industry perception of the White Sox is that they made a home run trade of Sale, in what they got back from the Boston Red Sox -- acquiring highly touted infield prospect Yoan Moncada, pitching prospect Michael Kopech and minor leaguers Luis Alexander Basabe and Victor Diaz. The assumption is that they will probably be able to do the same with Quintana, who is under team control for four seasons at a tremendous rate.

Rival execs say the asking price is enormous, but the White Sox are in a position to wait until someone says yes, even if that means carrying the process into spring training.

 

This makes me call BS on the supposed trade with the Astros that was turned down. I think they're asking for more than the Musgrove package.

Edited December 28, 2016 by NCsoxfan

[Mattchoo]

This. The Sox sin over the last several years is that, because there was no depth in the system, they rushed their best prospects to the majors. The refreshing part of this rebuild is that they will promote guys to the majors when they are ready - not in an effort to win now.

 

Exactly. We've added 7 prospects (that are arguably better than all of our current drafted ones) just by trade. If we were hoping our recently drafted prospects were going to be ready in 2017/2018, well now they have competition from similar age (draft year) players. Who ever is ready will be promoted. Those that need more time will be able to get it.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Mattchoo

[Mattchoo]

I agree, but then I think "What makes me think that losing Sale, Eaton, Quintana, and others will yield a better team?" These prospects and replacements not only have to equal the players lost, but exceed them as well. The proverbial one step backwards for two steps forward is great, but the one step backwards is still a big one.

 

 

I always loved Eaton the person... and his play was definitely very good. But my own eyes saw him as replaceable. Sale is the guy that will be hard to replace in my opinion. However, in our situation, I fully supported trading Sale for the players we received. Moncada has that chance to be an annual all-star. If he does do that, then the trade will have been worth it.

[ptatc]

But the thing is there is almost nothing they could do this offseason to win this year. They just don't have the resources to sign someone to a huge deal nor do they have the prospects to make such a move.

 

It would be piecemeal additions, which has consistently failed over and over for this organization.

This still has nothing to do with enjoying a baseball game unless your enjoyment is tied to winning.

[reiks12]

This makes me call BS on the supposed trade with the Astros that was turned down. I think they're asking for more than the Musgrove package.

 

I hope so. I thought it was very light

[bmags]

Excerpt from a Buster Olney insider article:

 

"The industry perception of the White Sox is that they made a home run trade of Sale, in what they got back from the Boston Red Sox -- acquiring highly touted infield prospect Yoan Moncada, pitching prospect Michael Kopech and minor leaguers Luis Alexander Basabe and Victor Diaz. The assumption is that they will probably be able to do the same with Quintana, who is under team control for four seasons at a tremendous rate.

Rival execs say the asking price is enormous, but the White Sox are in a position to wait until someone says yes, even if that means carrying the process into spring training.

 

This makes me call BS on the supposed trade with the Astros that was turned down. I think they're asking for more than the Musgrove package.

 

Thanks. Re: last paragraph, I think it just depends how you rate Musgrove.

[Rowand44]

I'll never have a problem with "rushing" prospects because I'll always believe the best way to get better is to play against the best competition. That said, there's definitely no reason to start these guys in the majors this year, no need to start/add to their service time.

[maggsmaggs]

This still has nothing to do with enjoying a baseball game unless your enjoyment is tied to winning.

So how does your enjoyment of watching a baseball game change with this Sox team versus past? It is just seeing players like Sale, Eaton or Q?

[shipps]

I'll never have a problem with "rushing" prospects because I'll always believe the best way to get better is to play against the best competition. That said, there's definitely no reason to start these guys in the majors this year, no need to start/add to their service time.

 

You totally contradicted yourself in two sentences, Row. LOL

[steveno89]

Thanks. Re: last paragraph, I think it just depends how you rate Musgrove.

 

Musgrove's plus plus control helps his stuff really play up. He throws a ton of strikes, and barely ever walks batters.

 

There's some injury concerns, but overall he could develop into a very good #3 starter

[Con te Giolito]

I always loved Eaton the person... and his play was definitely very good. But my own eyes saw him as replaceable. Sale is the guy that will be hard to replace in my opinion. However, in our situation, I fully supported trading Sale for the players we received. Moncada has that chance to be an annual all-star. If he does do that, then the trade will have been worth it.

Never had an OPS over .800, didn't have a higher OPS than Melky last year. So a few nice throws from RF made him one of the best 20 players in baseball? Not buying it at all. Sox should've sold high on him rebuilding or not and glad they got what they did.

 

This is about the time where we get our daily rumor that leads to rampant excitement and eventually dies off around 2 or 3 PM as the reality of not trading Quintana for yet another day sinks in. Just get this over with for gods sakes.

[Mattchoo]

I will likely watch more Sox games this year than last if some of our younger guys are up and playing (the ones that are ready for the competition). It was PAINFUL to watch this team with our "stars" continue to be mired in mediocrity.

 

I know this isn't related to the thread, but I was wondering on people's opinion of Ventura as a manager. Personally, I felt his style was a reason our roster was not winning at least 80 games a year.

[Rowand44]

Eh. I have no interest in wasting major league money on an intentionally bad product, nor do I feel like getting excited about knowing this is going to be the worst time to be a Sox fan in decades. Hoping what might happen in five years isn't really a reason to be excited today for me. It is the route we have chosen and all, but it is so depressing. It isn't like you can sim this time period to see if it works like OOTP. You have to live through the misery. Bleh.

But you've enjoyed the last decade?

[steveno89]

Never had an OPS over .800, didn't have a higher OPS than Melky last year. So a few nice throws from RF made him one of the best 20 players in baseball? Not buying it at all. Sox should've sold high on him rebuilding or not and glad they got what they did.

 

This is about the time where we get our daily rumor that leads to rampant excitement and eventually dies off around 2 or 3 PM as the reality of not trading Quintana for yet another day sinks in. Just get this over with for gods sakes.

 

Washington is convinced that Adam Eaton is Alex Gordon entering his prime right now, with slightly less gap and home run power

 

That's not an awful comparison if you look at their stats

[Feeky Magee]

Never had an OPS over .800, didn't have a higher OPS than Melky last year. So a few nice throws from RF made him one of the best 20 players in baseball? Not buying it at all. Sox should've sold high on him rebuilding or not and glad they got what they did.

 

This is about the time where we get our daily rumor that leads to rampant excitement and eventually dies off around 2 or 3 PM as the reality of not trading Quintana for yet another day sinks in. Just get this over with for gods sakes.

OPS isn't a great stat, because OBP is about 3x as important as SLG for scoring runs. Eaton was consistently 15-20% better than league average offensively.