Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[bmags]

Never had an OPS over .800, didn't have a higher OPS than Melky last year. So a few nice throws from RF made him one of the best 20 players in baseball? Not buying it at all. Sox should've sold high on him rebuilding or not and glad they got what they did.

 

This is about the time where we get our daily rumor that leads to rampant excitement and eventually dies off around 2 or 3 PM as the reality of not trading Quintana for yet another day sinks in. Just get this over with for gods sakes.

 

Maybe, but on April last year it felt like Eaton was singlehandedly winning is games like few players could.

[Rowand44]

You totally contradicted yourself in two sentences, Row. LOL

Nah. I guess I could be clearer but ill never freak out about rushing someone to the majors because I'm worried about their development or they're not ready or whatever. If you don't want to start their service time then that's a different thing.

[SoxAce]

It is obviously easier for me (FutureSox duh) to be excited about this rebuild than most.

 

Same with the ex FS guys like myself. I still get giddy.

 

[ptatc]

So how does your enjoyment of watching a baseball game change with this Sox team versus past? It is just seeing players like Sale, Eaton or Q?

Doesn't change at all for me. I really don't get tied to players. I've been going to Sox games since the late 70's. I got season tickets (weekend) in the early 2000's when I could afford them. I will continue to go while players come and go until I retire to Colorado when i will probably get rockies tickets.

 

It's obviously fun to watch them win but I will go regardless as I enjoy baseball games.

[OmarComing25]

You just put Reddit and knowledgeable in the same sentence.

I post over at /r/baseball pretty frequently and I find the majority of posters there to be fairly knowledgeable baseball fans. Plus there's few other places you can find opinions from fans of every team that aren't full of mouth breathers like Twitter/Facebook.

[Chicago White Sox]

First off, rebuilding was without question the right strategy for us. We were stuck in the middle with no money and a bottom five farm system. The choice to blow it up was a no brainer.

 

Second, I am super excited to follow some of these young players. By June we could have a rotation that includes Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, & Fulmer. That's four young guys with TOR stuff. For diehard Sox fans, that already makes 80% games at least somewhat interesting. Plus we'll have an electric young arm in the bullpen in Burdi.

 

By June we should also see the most exciting positional prospect the White Sox have had since Frank Thomas called up. I can't understate how excited I am to watch Moncada develop into the superstar he has a legit chance at becoming. I also can't wait to follow Anderson in his second season and see if he can become one of the top young SS in the game. And hopefully there are some other exciting positional prospects on the way between Quintana and/or other potential deals.

 

Hell, I'm even excited to see if any of our C type prospects develop into anything. One or two of Tilson, Liriano, Engel, & May will get some serous playing time in the OF this year. Davidson could get a shot at DH or 3B. Right now Navarez looks to be in the mix at C. There are also a few interesting guys at Charlotte who might eventually get a chance in Delmonico & Peter. I'm not optimistic any of these guys will turn into solid major league players, but rebuilding gives us an opportunity to play these type of prospects and see if any stick.

 

And finally I'm excited to cheer on our remaining trade assets in preparation for what should be an exciting 2017 deadline for us. Assuming Q is dealt in the next month, we could still have guys like Abreu, Frazier, Cabrera, Robertson, Jones, Jennings, Petricka, Putnam, Gonzalez, Holland, etc. that could bring back varying degrees of value. There should be a second influx of prospects come July of 2017.

 

So ultimately while 2017 is going to suck from a wins & losses perspective, there's a lot of things to be excited for if you're willing to consider other angles. And guess what, if the losing is too much for anyone, they can simply change the channel and not feel guilty. There is no expectation to win next year which means following the White Sox can finally be on our own terms. After putting in hundreds of hours into this team over the last few years and receiving nothing in return but regret & unfulfillment, that's a huge plus for me.

[maggsmaggs]

Doesn't change at all for me. I really don't get tied to players. I've been going to Sox games since the late 70's. I got season tickets (weekend) in the early 2000's when I could afford them. I will continue to go while players come and go until I retire to Colorado when i will probably get rockies tickets.

 

It's obviously fun to watch them win but I will go regardless as I enjoy baseball games.

Got it. Was actually just curious.

[steveno89]

First off, rebuilding was without question the right strategy for us. We were stuck in the middle with no money and a bottom five farm system. The choice to blow it up was a no brainer.

 

Second, I am super excited to follow some of these young players. By June we could have a rotation that includes Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, & Fulmer. That's four young guys with TOR stuff. For diehard Sox fans, that already makes 80% games at least somewhat interesting. Plus we'll have an electric young arm in the bullpen in Burdi.

 

By June we should also see the most exciting positional prospect the White Sox have had since Frank Thomas called up. I can't understate how excited I am to watch Moncada develop into the superstar he has a legit chance at becoming. I also can't wait to follow Anderson in his second season and see if he can become one of the top young SS in the game. And hopefully there are some other exciting positional prospects on the way between Quintana and/or other potential deals.

 

Hell, I'm even excited to see if any of our C type prospects develop into anything. One or two of Tilson, Liriano, Engel, & May will get some serous playing time in the OF this year. Davidson could get a shot at DH or 3B. Right now Navarez looks to be in the mix at C. There are also a few interesting guys at Charlotte who might eventually get a chance in Delmonico & Peter. I'm not optimistic any of these guys will turn into solid major league players, but rebuilding gives us an opportunity to play these type of prospects and see if any stick.

 

And finally I'm excited to cheer on our remaining trade assets in preparation for what should be an exciting 2017 deadline for us. Assuming Q is dealt in the next month, we could still have guys like Abreu, Frazier, Cabrera, Robertson, Jones, Jennings, Petricka, Putnam, Gonzalez, Holland, etc. that could bring back varying degrees of value. There should be a second influx of prospects come July of 2017.

 

So ultimately while 2017 is going to suck from a wins & losses perspective, there's a lot of things to be excited for if you're willing to consider other angles. And guess what, if the losing is too much for anyone, they can simply change the channel and not feel guilty. There is no expectation to win next year which means following the White Sox can finally be on our own terms. After putting in hundreds of hours into this team over the last few years and receiving nothing in return but regret & unfulfillment, that's a huge plus for me.

 

I'm right there with you

 

I just think fans will need to be very patient with how long this rebuild will take. The earliest the Sox will be competitive will be 2019, likely 2020 before making a playoff push

 

 

[bmags]

Nah. I guess I could be clearer but ill never freak out about rushing someone to the majors because I'm worried about their development or they're not ready or whatever. If you don't want to start their service time then that's a different thing.

 

It depends. Was fine with TA callup, but Fulmer/Rodon were up too early and especially Rodon I wish could have worked out change up in AAA

[SoxAce]

First off, rebuilding was without question the right strategy for us. We were stuck in the middle with no money and a bottom five farm system. The choice to blow it up was a no brainer.

 

Second, I am super excited to follow some of these young players. By June we could have a rotation that includes Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, & Fulmer. That's four young guys with TOR stuff. For diehard Sox fans, that already makes 80% games at least somewhat interesting. Plus we'll have an electric young arm in the bullpen in Burdi.

 

And you didn't even mention Kopech who I'm the highest on after Lopez in our system. Hit on some position players and look out. Obviously not all of those guys will pan out, but if the sox can get even 40% of them to... wow.

Edited December 28, 2016 by SoxAce

[ptatc]

Got it. Was actually just curious.

I was curious too. I was wonder from the comments on the board how many people are baseball fans or just fans of winning sports teams.

 

not that either is right or wrong. Everyone has a right to be whatever type of sports fan they want to be.

[southsider2k5]

I think a lot of people are severely overestimating the amount of time this team will be bad, and how they will be losing intentionally. 2017 will be mostly garbage, no doubt. But really, that's about it. This isn't the kind of rebuild where a moribund, barren franchise begins from zero, accumulating teenagers through draft picks. Thanks to their roster of great players with great contracts (that paradoxically did not produce a great team), the Sox are acquiring close to major league ready, impact talent. Things will change much more quickly than some people seem to think. Especially in the two-Wildcard era, this team will be competing by 2019 for sure, possibly even 2018.

 

2018 is crazy talk.

[Con te Giolito]

OPS isn't a great stat, because OBP is about 3x as important as SLG for scoring runs. Eaton was consistently 15-20% better than league average offensively.

But then were talking about a guy who was tied for 33rd last season amongst qualified batters in OBP. Tied for 59th in wRC+. That's not bad, but its also not great. At least not top 20 player in the game great.

 

He also displays power sporadically at best and has good-not-great baserunning with disappointing steals totals. I see him as a fringe top 50 offensive player, the defensive renaissance he enjoyed in RF last year definitely boosts him but not to the kind of heights that justify giving up two of the best farm arms in baseball (PLUS a 1st rounder). Perhaps he fits what the Nationals need more than most teams so it makes more sense for them. Their window is probably only open for 2 more years anyways. But the Sox are likely to find 10 Adam Eaton's before they stumble on another Chris Sale or even Jose Quintana.

[southsider2k5]

But you've enjoyed the last decade?

 

More than I will enjoy the next few years for sure.

[southsider2k5]

I'm right there with you

 

I just think fans will need to be very patient with how long this rebuild will take. The earliest the Sox will be competitive will be 2019, likely 2020 before making a playoff push

 

This is what I see as realistic on the optimistic side. If most things go right, we should be looking at 2020 to have a team that has a chance. Of course that is assuming the Sox actually fill in the blanks and find actual position players.

[Con te Giolito]

2018 is crazy talk.

Have to see what the Quintana trade brings, but for right now I expect the Sox to be good in 2018. Perhaps not playoff ready, but the rotation of Rodon-Giolito-Lopez plus the two most worthy suitors from the minors to that point (competition for spots is going to be nice) and the Moncada-Abreu-Anderson core that's brewing should lead to watchable if not good baseball.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Con te Giolito

[Thad Bosley]

This still has nothing to do with enjoying a baseball game unless your enjoyment is tied to winning.

Of course it's tied to winning. See, this is the problem with a team like the Sox that rarely wins - fans start rationalizing away the emphasis on winning. How much White Sox baseball have you "enjoyed" watching these past four years, when winning has been in such short supply?

 

The long-term hope on this rebuild is that for the first time in this team's long history, some sustained "winning" will begin to happen, such that comments about enjoying baseball without the need for winning go away.

[southsider2k5]

Have to see what the Quintana trade brings, but for right now I expect the Sox to be good in 2018. Perhaps not playoff ready, but the rotation of Rodon-Giolito-Lopez plus the two most worthy suitors from the minors to that point (competition for spots is going to be nice) and the Moncada-Abreu-Anderson core that's brewing should lead to watchable if not good baseball.

 

We will be looking at a 70 to 75 win team in 2018.

[steveno89]

But then were talking about a guy who was tied for 33rd last season amongst qualified batters in OBP. Tied for 59th in wRC+. That's not bad, but its also not great. At least not top 20 player in the game great.

 

He also displays power sporadically at best and has good-not-great baserunning with disappointing steals totals. I see him as a fringe top 50 offensive player, the defensive renaissance he enjoyed in RF last year definitely boosts him but not to the kind of heights that justify giving up two of the best farm arms in baseball (PLUS a 1st rounder). Perhaps he fits what the Nationals need more than most teams so it makes more sense for them. Their window is probably only open for 2 more years anyways. But the Sox are likely to find 10 Adam Eaton's before they stumble on another Chris Sale or even Jose Quintana.

 

That's why you take the pitching back in return for Eaton. Most teams would love to have 1 pitching prospect the caliber of a Giolito, Kopech or Lopez. Even Dunning has potential and performed very well over 8 starts this season and could be a fast riser.

 

He was relegated to being a reliever in college due to Florida's absurd amount of pitching, but he could develop into a starting pitcher or quality bullpen piece. I felt he was an outstanding third piece to the trade.

Edited December 28, 2016 by steveno89

[bmags]

We will be looking at a 70 to 75 win team in 2018.

 

So in two years we are already where we are now and on the up and up? Sounds good.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

I'll just add that our 2016 draft was outstanding. Collins, Burdi, Hansen, Call and another guy I can't think of right now just add to the talent Hahn is obtaining. The future- the near future- is bright.

[bmags]

I'll just add that our 2016 draft was outstanding. Collins, Burdi, Hansen, Call and another guy I can't think of right now just add to the talent Hahn is obtaining. The future- the near future- is bright.

Fisher and Curbelo

[southsider2k5]

So in two years we are already where we are now and on the up and up? Sounds good.

 

Again, assuming the Sox find some actual position players to start slotting in at some point.

 

Realistically, 2017 is a lost year. None of the players we are talking about will be on the opening day roster. They will all be in the minors. The front end of this group looks like it should start coming up mid season or later. Optimistically guys like Gio, Lopez and Moncada get a half a year on the major league roster. This season will be loaded with 4A and has been players playing everywhere.

 

2018 should be the first full season for a the front end of these guys. The rest of the guys are years away. The end of 2018 is super optimistic for guys like Basabe, Kopech, Dunning, and Collins. They are probably looking at 2019 to debut, and maybe start contributing.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see 2018 as the worst year of the rebuild, and not 2017.

[Con te Giolito]

We will be looking at a 70 to 75 win team in 2018.

If they get a Torres/Rutherford package for Q? Yea it pushes things out a bit. But if they go the Pirates route and get more close to the majors guys 2018 could be competitive.

 

Right now they really need a well rounded OFer because that's one the thing the system is very light on until you get down to like Winston-Salem. Of course the W-S OF will probably be Call-Basabe-Fisher, all three pretty legit prospects, but another guy closer to the majors could accelerate the return to competitive baseball.

[Buehrlesque]

2018 is crazy talk.

 

 

We will be looking at a 70 to 75 win team in 2018.

It does sound crazy now, but just wait. Crazier things have happened, and things change fast in the game today. If the Sox pull off one more "home run" style trade with Quintana and bring in MLB-ready prospects, I think you're underselling the 2018 team. I'm not predicting 90 wins or anything, but I think they could make a run at .500 pretty quick. In the modern playoff era, that is not far off from actually contending. The difference of course will be that it's a .500 team on the rise, not a .500 team of veterans maxing out and declining.