Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[BlackSox13]

Someone on twitter suggested the Mariners as the 3rd team.

 

Mariners get McCutchen.

Pirates get Quintana

White Sox get Glasnow (MLB Pipeline #8), Lewis (MLB Pipeline #28), O'Neil (MLB Pipeline #60)

 

This would rival the Eaton and Sale returns as far as MLB Pipeline rankings.

Sounds like Seattle would be giving up alot for Cutch who's defensive decline would be even more exposed at Safeco. If Seattle is going to give up that much they should add a bit more and go for Blackmon, not Cutch. Cutch would be bad at Safeco.

 

I could see Seattle being interested in Cole although that doesn't help Pitt with shedding Cutch's salary.

 

I'm getting to the point where if Pitt won't offer up one of Meadows or Bell as the headliner then they can piss off. I like Glasnow's upside but after thinking more about it, nope, it's Meadows, Bell or find another dance partner. If Pitt wants to add Glasnow to Meadows or Bell then that's fine.

[he gone.]

When the Sox acquired Frazier, he had 2 years left on his contract; now he has 1 year left. His control is 50% less, and there is no reason the Sox should expect anymore than 50% of what they gave up for him.

Frazier had a bad year, including leading MLB in infield pop ups. And that was behind a miserable second half to 2015, which most willfully ignored. He will be 31 this season. Could he turn it around? Of course - there's a chance. But teams won't pay any sort of premium right now to see that happen. His value will be better in June or July if he has a good year...it's worth the risk to wait.

 

Quintana, on the other hand, just delivered his fourth quality season. He's consistent as heck and it is his consistency that puts him in the top tier category, if not the ace. A fifth good year added on to four, doesn't really raise his value; and he's not going to suddenly start throwing 96 to get teams to pay for his "stuff." The greater risk is that he has an off year, and that will kill his value as his value is one of consistency and contract, not stuff. A seller's market will not exist this time next year.

Quintana needs to be moved.

 

 

Not to shift any gears here, and I know this is Q thread, just don't want to start a new thread for Frazier.

 

Depending on who we receive back for Q, Jones, Robertson, etc. etc. I wouldn't mind keeping Frazier. Now if we acquire a 3B in trades then yes, I think you deal him. My reasons are:

 

1 - He only has a year left on his contract and is not coming off his strongest year - I don't think you get much in return for him

2 - He seems to be a strong clubhouse presence and has been on some bad teams down in CIN. I think he can handle a few years being the leader to younger guys. He seems to have his head screwed on right and a good work ethic

3 - I honestly do think he'll bat better than last year. I'd expect .250 and 30-35HR's and a bit better plate presence - that being said I'm usually over optimistic on Sox players

4 - I think you can lock him up for a 3-4 year deal before FA for approx. $12-14mm a year. That's a total guess, but seems pretty affordable

5 - The Sox haven't had a serviceable 3B for a damn long time. I won't list them out, but the likes of Mark Teahen come to mind

6 - Even if he starts to declne defensively (we'd have him for ages 32-35/36) then I think you can flip him over to 1B and then Abreu to DH ... or if he really falls apart DH. I think there is still value for a guy who can pop 30HR a year at all 3 positions.

7 - Who is our present internal options? Again we may trade for someone - but I think there are worse things than spending 4yr, 50-56mm on Frazier.

 

The other option is we flip him for a return like Micah Johnson, Thompson and what's his face pitcher... but really the return will be less than that. And that just doesn't excite me.

[he gone.]

And also to add to that ... I obviously also think we should keep Abreu. I know he's looked slower and that he's aged a ton. But I think him at DH for next 4-6 years sounds good to me. I don't think we'll know what were missing til he's traded. Again the right type of guy to have in the clubhouse. I do agree with trading Q, Robertson, Jones, Melky, and everybody else. But would like to keep Frazier and Abreu.

[Buehrlesque]

Not to shift any gears here, and I know this is Q thread, just don't want to start a new thread for Frazier.

 

Depending on who we receive back for Q, Jones, Robertson, etc. etc. I wouldn't mind keeping Frazier. Now if we acquire a 3B in trades then yes, I think you deal him. My reasons are:

 

1 - He only has a year left on his contract and is not coming off his strongest year - I don't think you get much in return for him

2 - He seems to be a strong clubhouse presence and has been on some bad teams down in CIN. I think he can handle a few years being the leader to younger guys. He seems to have his head screwed on right and a good work ethic

3 - I honestly do think he'll bat better than last year. I'd expect .250 and 30-35HR's and a bit better plate presence - that being said I'm usually over optimistic on Sox players

4 - I think you can lock him up for a 3-4 year deal before FA for approx. $12-14mm a year. That's a total guess, but seems pretty affordable

5 - The Sox haven't had a serviceable 3B for a damn long time. I won't list them out, but the likes of Mark Teahen come to mind

6 - Even if he starts to declne defensively (we'd have him for ages 32-35/36) then I think you can flip him over to 1B and then Abreu to DH ... or if he really falls apart DH. I think there is still value for a guy who can pop 30HR a year at all 3 positions.

7 - Who is our present internal options? Again we may trade for someone - but I think there are worse things than spending 4yr, 50-56mm on Frazier.

 

The other option is we flip him for a return like Micah Johnson, Thompson and what's his face pitcher... but really the return will be less than that. And that just doesn't excite me.

I can go either way with Frazier. I know people want to trade him because of the black and white rebuild strategy, but the reality is you're probably not going to get anything worthwhile back. Is it really worth it to dump him for some A-ball relief pitcher lottery ticket? If the smart thing to do is to trade a hard-to-find TOR SP when the market in a seller's market, wouldn't the flip side of that coin make it smart to "buy" a guy like Frazier in a buyer's market? For the reasons you mentioned, I wouldn't mind re-signing or extending him. He could potentially have more value to the Sox long term that way than whatever would come back in a trade today.

[Dick Allen]

If being horrible means a 2.5 fWAR and 40 homers, sign me up for 25 horrible players on the roster.

[Balta1701]

Not to shift any gears here, and I know this is Q thread, just don't want to start a new thread for Frazier.

 

Depending on who we receive back for Q, Jones, Robertson, etc. etc. I wouldn't mind keeping Frazier. Now if we acquire a 3B in trades then yes, I think you deal him. My reasons are:

 

1 - He only has a year left on his contract and is not coming off his strongest year - I don't think you get much in return for him

2 - He seems to be a strong clubhouse presence and has been on some bad teams down in CIN. I think he can handle a few years being the leader to younger guys. He seems to have his head screwed on right and a good work ethic

3 - I honestly do think he'll bat better than last year. I'd expect .250 and 30-35HR's and a bit better plate presence - that being said I'm usually over optimistic on Sox players

4 - I think you can lock him up for a 3-4 year deal before FA for approx. $12-14mm a year. That's a total guess, but seems pretty affordable

5 - The Sox haven't had a serviceable 3B for a damn long time. I won't list them out, but the likes of Mark Teahen come to mind

6 - Even if he starts to declne defensively (we'd have him for ages 32-35/36) then I think you can flip him over to 1B and then Abreu to DH ... or if he really falls apart DH. I think there is still value for a guy who can pop 30HR a year at all 3 positions.

7 - Who is our present internal options? Again we may trade for someone - but I think there are worse things than spending 4yr, 50-56mm on Frazier.

 

The other option is we flip him for a return like Micah Johnson, Thompson and what's his face pitcher... but really the return will be less than that. And that just doesn't excite me.

I want to see Tyler Saladino play there for 150 games next year. See if he can hit and see if his body can handle it. That's why I'm more focused on us needing to move Frazier than the guy I can't stand seeing in a White Sox uniform in LF. The posts around this one talk about Frazier putting up 2.5 WAR, with his ability on defense if Saladino can put up a .700 OPS he can give similar value and quality defense could help the pitching staff more for a minimal price. He looked like a big league ballplayer in both 2015 and 2016, but he never got a full season there. If his body falls apart again or he puts up a .600 OPS on the year fine, then I won't be able to say he would be deserving of a 2018 spot, but the only way you're going to avoid having me saying the same thing next offseason is to play him. And no, he can't take the 2b slot, because I think someone else gets that position in 2018.

[striker]

Except with that knee injury, you never know if he'll come back at 100%.

 

Don't think they would trade for a player unless they've scoured all the doctor's reports and monitored in the spring. Possible, but unlikely. Plus projecting players from Mercer Univ. isn't a simple equation, either.

Yeah, didn't realize Lewis was injurred.

[Balta1701]

And also to add to that ... I obviously also think we should keep Abreu. I know he's looked slower and that he's aged a ton. But I think him at DH for next 4-6 years sounds good to me. I don't think we'll know what were missing til he's traded. Again the right type of guy to have in the clubhouse. I do agree with trading Q, Robertson, Jones, Melky, and everybody else. But would like to keep Frazier and Abreu.

With the way we've seen the market for 1b/DH types collapse this year, I'm at the point of agreeing there's no benefit to moving Abreu. No one will give anything of value for him, and if we're talking about a clubhouse influence I would put his locker specifically next to this "Moncada" guy in spring training and hope for the best. I don't think him being at DH 4 years from now sounds very good to me though, because he seems to be trending really rapidly downwards as of now.

[ptatc]

Except with that knee injury, you never know if he'll come back at 100%.

 

Don't think they would trade for a player unless they've scoured all the doctor's reports and monitored in the spring. Possible, but unlikely. Plus projecting players from Mercer Univ. isn't a simple equation, either.

It's fairly rare that a knee injury will not allow 100% recovery. The only one really is a significant hyaline cartilage injury.

[SoxAce]

It's fairly rare that a knee injury will not allow 100% recovery. The only one really is a significant hyaline cartilage injury.

 

I was gonna say. Its a torn ACL. A couple posters here are acting like the kid completely shredded his knee or had a more serious injury that he'll never be the same again in some aspects (ala Jared Mitchell).

[illinilaw08]

I want to see Tyler Saladino play there for 150 games next year. See if he can hit and see if his body can handle it. That's why I'm more focused on us needing to move Frazier than the guy I can't stand seeing in a White Sox uniform in LF. The posts around this one talk about Frazier putting up 2.5 WAR, with his ability on defense if Saladino can put up a .700 OPS he can give similar value and quality defense could help the pitching staff more for a minimal price. He looked like a big league ballplayer in both 2015 and 2016, but he never got a full season there. If his body falls apart again or he puts up a .600 OPS on the year fine, then I won't be able to say he would be deserving of a 2018 spot, but the only way you're going to avoid having me saying the same thing next offseason is to play him. And no, he can't take the 2b slot, because I think someone else gets that position in 2018.

 

Can't Frazier play 3B/1B/DH? Until Moncada comes up, Saladino can get ABs at both 2B and 3B while playing everyday. Frazier's existence shouldn't prevent Saladino from playing 150 games this year.

 

Conceptually, I agree though. Saladino is one of the guys who needs a full year tryout to see if he's part of the plan going forward.

[he gone.]

With the way we've seen the market for 1b/DH types collapse this year, I'm at the point of agreeing there's no benefit to moving Abreu. No one will give anything of value for him, and if we're talking about a clubhouse influence I would put his locker specifically next to this "Moncada" guy in spring training and hope for the best. I don't think him being at DH 4 years from now sounds very good to me though, because he seems to be trending really rapidly downwards as of now.

 

Eye test? Completely agree.

But hard to argue the results. Lumpy at times. But we just saw a second half that if on a contending team would have been really covered by the media more.

He does seem to be running in quick sand, but so did Big Papi (not comparing the two apple to apples). Who knows how quickly he declines, but I'd take him at DH and Frazier at 1B in 2018. Both can shift over to their old positions every now and again too. It would allow a bit of flexibility. Just my two cents.

 

Again these moves are dictated by the market IMO. These guys are both solid clubhouse guys with great work ethic. I'd take 25 clubhouse guys like them. Also I don't think we'd get close to the return we should out of them.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I'd still like to see the Sox try Saladino in a Zobrist role. If used across 2B, SS, 3B, & LF he could get enough playing time to essentially be considered a regular.

[Balta1701]

I'd still like to see the Sox try Saladino in a Zobrist role. If used across 2B, SS, 3B, & LF he could get enough playing time to essentially be considered a regular.

With Cabrera, Anderson, Frazier, and Lawrie all on this roster, you have 2 guys there who played 150-158 games in each of the last 2 years, Anderson who played 154 last year, and a guy who is regularly injured for 2 months. Basically, your setup seems very likely to me to wind up with Saladino playing 60 games when he has to sub for the injured Lawrie and 15 games elsewhere.

[Saufley]

With Cabrera, Anderson, Frazier, and Lawrie all on this roster, you have 2 guys there who played 150-158 games in each of the last 2 years, Anderson who played 154 last year, and a guy who is regularly injured for 2 months. Basically, your setup seems very likely to me to wind up with Saladino playing 60 games when he has to sub for the injured Lawrie and 15 games elsewhere.

 

Is Lawrie really needed on this team?

 

[steveno89]

With Cabrera, Anderson, Frazier, and Lawrie all on this roster, you have 2 guys there who played 150-158 games in each of the last 2 years, Anderson who played 154 last year, and a guy who is regularly injured for 2 months. Basically, your setup seems very likely to me to wind up with Saladino playing 60 games when he has to sub for the injured Lawrie and 15 games elsewhere.

 

This board is starving for a Q update

[Dick Allen]

This board is starving for a Q update

I think fans everywhere are starving for some action. There seems to be more decent players still looking for homes at this point than any year I can remember. A lot of teams still have a lot of work left.

[steveno89]

I think fans everywhere are starving for some action. There seems to be more decent players still looking for homes at this point than any year I can remember. A lot of teams still have a lot of work left.

 

I feel like most teams have done absolutely nothing this offseason, which is strange

 

Outside of the Sale and Eaton big trades, plus a few free agent signings, there has not been that much activity and a ton of players still have not signed

[hi8is]

This board is starving for a Q update

Have no fear - answers are near.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Is Lawrie really needed on this team?

A question many GMs are asking themselves.

[Bob Sacamano]

Is Lawrie really needed on this team?

 

Not really. I'd honestly rather see Saladino at second every day until Moncada is ready. I guess Lawrie could play third if Frazier gets dealt but I'd rather add a sign and flip or see what Davidson can do.

[striker]

I was gonna say. Its a torn ACL. A couple posters here are acting like the kid completely shredded his knee or had a more serious injury that he'll never be the same again in some aspects (ala Jared Mitchell).

Prospects already come with enough risk though, you don't want to add more. IMO. Especially since Lewis would be the #2 piece in the deal. If he was a throw in, then not as big of a deal.

[Dick Allen]

Not really. I'd honestly rather see Saladino at second every day until Moncada is ready. I guess Lawrie could play third if Frazier gets dealt but I'd rather add a sign and flip or see what Davidson can do.

Not calling you out but I don't understand why several people want to see Matt Davidson yet don't want anything to do with Avi Garcia playing in a rebuild. At least Avi failed in the major leagues. What is it about Matt Davidson that screams anything but in two weeks we will have seen more than enough, if it even takes that long?

 

Yes his numbers improved his 4th year of AAA, but his OPS was still .001 lower than Leury Garcia's.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Feeky Magee]

Not calling you out but I don't understand why several people want to see Matt Davidson yet don't want anything to do with Avi Garcia playing in a rebuild. At least Avi failed in the major leagues. What is it about Matt Davidson that screams anything but in two weeks we will have seen more than enough, if it even takes that long?

 

Yes his numbers improved his 4th year of AAA, but his OPS was still .001 lower than Leury Garcia's.

Meanwhile Addison Reed actually turned out to be really, really good (although typically, after he left the Diamondbacks)

[ptatc]

Prospects already come with enough risk though, you don't want to add more. IMO. Especially since Lewis would be the #2 piece in the deal. If he was a throw in, then not as big of a deal.

There shouldn't be an issue. Especially, once he goes through the physical. This type of injury will be very easy to assess if there is any long term issues.