Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[Chicago White Sox]

Which trade would you accept for Q? Do the other teams accept these deals?

 

Q to the Yankees for Frazier, Rutherford, Kaplielian, and Sands

 

Q to the Braves for Albies, Maitian, Soroka, and Toussaint

 

Q to the Astros for Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and Stubbs

 

Q to the Pirates for Glasnow, Bell, Diaz, and Escobar

I'd take that Yankees deal in a heartbeat. And the more I think about it, the more realistic a Frazier trade could be. The Yankees look prepared to give Judge a starting gig next year and Ellsbury isn't going anywhere anytime soon (owed $85M over next 4 years). Assuming they plan on going big after Harper in two years, there really isn't room for Frazier. Obviously he's the superior prospect to Judge, but they need a lot of pitching and I could see them ultimately giving him up in a Quintana deal. The question then comes down to the secondary pieces. I think everyone here would prefer Rutherford to Mateo, but that's where I could seem some resistance from the Yankees. Regardless, a Frazier+Rutherford package plus a lesser prospect or two would be awesome if Hahn could pull it off.

[Con te Giolito]

Which trade would you accept for Q? Do the other teams accept these deals?

 

Q to the Yankees for Frazier, Rutherford, Kaplielian, and Sands

 

Q to the Braves for Albies, Maitian, Soroka, and Toussaint

 

Q to the Astros for Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and Stubbs

 

Q to the Pirates for Glasnow, Bell, Diaz, and Escobar

I would take all these deals gladly but I doubt any of the other teams would be willing to.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I think it would realistically be something more like... Frazier, Sheffield, Andujar, and some random prospect not in their top 30... I'd be all for that deal and would even consider Accevedo(depending on his health) if Sheffield was a hold up. Accevedo at 6'7 with a fastball that sits around 96/97 and touches 102 as a starter with a good change up is extremely intriguing to me.

[tray]

Yankees might expand the prospect hall if the Sox include Todd Frazier with Quintana. Toddfather, a NJ native, would be a perfect fit in the Bronx and I am sure he would love playing there.

[steveno89]

What if quintana goes somewhere that isnt NYY or PIT but all the discussions ultimately send other players to those clubs. Just killing time, a scenario such as this feels nice:

 

Q to Hou: Tucker, Martes, Reed, Cameron

 

Rodon, Robertson to NYY: Rutherford, Mateo, Andujar

 

Abreu, Jones to PIT: Newman, Keller, Hayes

 

Why would the pirates trade for Aubrey when they have bell for way cheaper?

 

That would be selling low on Rodon, who is poised to break out in 2017.

Edited December 31, 2016 by steveno89

[Y2Jimmy0]

I would take all these deals gladly but I doubt any of the other teams would be willing to.

 

 

IF the other teams wouldn't be willing to do something like that, then Q probably stays honestly.

[GGajewski18]

IF the other teams wouldn't be willing to do something like that, then Q probably stays honestly.

 

I agree. In particular, the Pirates. If their fans find out they don't do that deal, they would riot.

 

Also, I think the Braves would accept that deal as all those guys are 2-4 years away.

[flavum]

Sox traded Quentin five years ago today, also a Saturday.

 

[GreenSox]

Which trade would you accept for Q? Do the other teams accept these deals?

 

Q to the Yankees for Frazier, Rutherford, Kaplielian, and Sands

 

Q to the Braves for Albies, Maitian, Soroka, and Toussaint

 

Q to the Astros for Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and Stubbs

 

Q to the Pirates for Glasnow, Bell, Diaz, and Escobar

The Sox should accept any of those, with the Astros trade a tad iffy.

The Yankees would say no.

The Braves would say no. If they actually in position to contend they might say yes, but they aren't.

The Astros should say yes; and I think they would had they not overpaid/traded so many prospects in the last 2 years. They still might.

The Pirates would say no (due to inclusion of Bell).

 

The Sox may need to trade Rodon at some point, but definitely not yet; let him blossom first, and plenty of time for that.

Edited December 31, 2016 by GreenSox

[GGajewski18]

The Sox should accept any of those, with the Astros trade a tad iffy.

The Yankees would say no.

The Braves would say no. If they actually in position to contend they might say yes, but they aren't.

The Astros should say yes; and I think they would had they not overpaid/traded so many prospects in the last 2 years. They still might.

The Pirates would say no (due to inclusion of Bell).

 

The Sox may need to trade Rodon at some point, but definitely not yet; let him blossom first, and plenty of time for that.

 

I agree with all your points except the Pirates. Due to the inclusion of Bell should have no reason saying no in acquiring a talent like Quintana because they still have Freese and Jaso at 1B.

 

Pirates would need to trade 2 of Meadows, Glasnow, and Bell if they aren't trading Keller or Newman in the deal. They keep those 2 and their top prospect in Meadows, while the Sox get 3 MLB ready guys now and a lottery ticket.

 

If no Bell, then Glasnow, Keller, Newman, and Diaz.

[GreenSox]

I agree with all your points except the Pirates. Due to the inclusion of Bell should have no reason saying no in acquiring a talent like Quintana because they still have Freese and Jaso at 1B.

Freese and Jaso are old veterans, neither of whom is very good.

Bell was very productive for the major league team last year. He was a top prospect, so he has the pedigree. They are trying to win, so why would they give that up? Asking for them to include Bell is as pointless and trade-killing as asking for Mookie Betts was last July (okay, not as silly as asking for Betts, but it's the same problem).

Or dare I use another analogy - as pointless as including Trayce in a trade for Frazier, when you had no center fielder to replace him (yes, Bell is better and has the pedigree Trayce lacked; and the Pirates have some sort of backup; but it's just not a move a contender will make).

[GGajewski18]

Freese and Jaso are old veterans, neither of whom is very good.

Bell was very productive for the major league team last year. He was a top prospect, so he has the pedigree. They are trying to win, so why would they give that up? Asking for them to include Bell is as pointless and trade-killing as asking for Mookie Betts was last July (okay, not as silly as asking for Betts, but it's the same problem).

Or dare I use another analogy - as pointless as including Trayce in a trade for Frazier, when you had no center fielder to replace him (yes, Bell is better and has the pedigree Trayce lacked; and the Pirates have some sort of backup; but it's just not a move a contender will make).

 

What would/should the Pirates offer that the both teams would say yes to?

[southsider2k5]

Which trade would you accept for Q? Do the other teams accept these deals?

 

Q to the Yankees for Frazier, Rutherford, Kaplielian, and Sands

 

Q to the Braves for Albies, Maitian, Soroka, and Toussaint

 

Q to the Astros for Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and Stubbs

 

Q to the Pirates for Glasnow, Bell, Diaz, and Escobar

 

Yankees or Braves.

[bmags]

Asking for Bell is no where near asking for Betts. That's ridiculous.

[iamshack]

Asking for Bell is no where near asking for Betts. That's ridiculous.

I don't buy this line of thinking anyways. It's the damned offseason. This is one of the reasons to transact in the offseason, so you have an opportunity move some pieces around as a response to a big acquisition.

 

We've allowed these GMs to define conditions, simply because they don't want to move ANY pieces from their MLB roster. Now they're trying to define even further conditions, such as they won't move their top prospects, because they could POTENTIALLY be contributors to the MLB roster next year.

 

While its unavoidable that the market will truly set the price for Jose, and even other assets, I think we need make these teams very much aware that they will pay a premium (should they hold this line) for approaching the transaction this way. Should they come back later, when their is true pressure on them to make an acquisition, the price will indeed be significantly more.

 

[Balta1701]

I don't buy this line of thinking anyways. It's the damned offseason. This is one of the reasons to transact in the offseason, so you have an opportunity move some pieces around as a response to a big acquisition.

 

We've allowed these GMs to define conditions, simply because they don't want to move ANY pieces from their MLB roster. Now they're trying to define even further conditions, such as they won't move their top prospects, because they could POTENTIALLY be contributors to the MLB roster next year.

 

While its unavoidable that the market will truly set the price for Jose, and even other assets, I think we need make these teams very much aware that they will pay a premium (should they hold this line) for approaching the transaction this way. Should they come back later, when their is true pressure on them to make an acquisition, the price will indeed be significantly more.

If we're serious about making an appropriate deal I don't believe that will be the case (unless the value of the player goes up due to improvement in the player's performance). Our job here is to make the White Sox world series champions and that means acquiring as much talent as possible. If we aren't offered enough talent for our players, we should avoid moving them until someone offers an appropriate talent level. If that team had refused to meet your demands in the offseason and then they come to you midseason with a truly fair offer, do you turn it down to be vindictive? That might fit in "The Art of the Deal", but it's bad baseball GMing. We clearly have had some "issues" in the past with the nationals as an organization, yet when they put a strong deal on the table for Sale and Eaton we were content to do business with them.

[GreenSox]

Asking for Bell is no where near asking for Betts. That's ridiculous.

I agree he's not Betts and I said so; but it's the same issue. When top prospects succeed in their cup of coffee, their value to the team, especially a contender, is much higher. Trading young productive hitters opens another hole for them; which they may be able to get by with Jaso et al this year, but the Pirates are not and never will be "all in" for one given year.

 

 

The Pirates have several other prospects that the Sox could use.

As for the Astros, I would consider Reed among the 2nd tier. He failed in his cup of coffee, but may have been rushed a bit, and the value now is heavily discounted.

 

I think they could do a deal with Yankees, if they would take Rutherford + secondary pieces. Is that enough?

Edited December 31, 2016 by GreenSox

[iamshack]

If we're serious about making an appropriate deal I don't believe that will be the case (unless the value of the player goes up due to improvement in the player's performance). Our job here is to make the White Sox world series champions and that means acquiring as much talent as possible. If we aren't offered enough talent for our players, we should avoid moving them until someone offers an appropriate talent level. If that team had refused to meet your demands in the offseason and then they come to you midseason with a truly fair offer, do you turn it down to be vindictive? That might fit in "The Art of the Deal", but it's bad baseball GMing. We clearly have had some "issues" in the past with the nationals as an organization, yet when they put a strong deal on the table for Sale and Eaton we were content to do business with them.

Well don't misunderstand what I'm writing. This isn't about being vindictive. It's about doing the same thing to them as they are to us. They are moving the market through their negotiating tactics.

 

As to the bolded, honestly you shouldn't find yourself in this position often enough for it to really matter, but I do think you need to push back on these teams a bit. These other teams recognize that we are anxious to keep moving the ball on this rebuild, and yet they have no real pressure on themselves at the moment, and so they aren't offering appropriate value. What needs to happen is pressure needs to be applied to them. If they have every belief that they can take a wait and see approach, seeing where things stand in June and July, then we need to make sure they understand we will not take that risk of holding on to him for another 6 months without compensation.

 

That is good baseball GM'ing. Good negotiating skills are a large portion of a GMs skillset.

[bmags]

I don't know, the reality is Glasnow + Newman is more than probably than 26 other teams could offer at this point. And of the others are teams like phillies/brewers that aren't in Qs market. So when it's just pirates vs yanks/braves/rox and two of the three are hypothetical, why do they feel pressure to offer bell/Meadows right away?

[steveno89]

I don't know, the reality is Glasnow + Newman is more than probably than 26 other teams could offer at this point. And of the others are teams like phillies/brewers that aren't in Qs market. So when it's just pirates vs yanks/braves/rox and two of the three are hypothetical, why do they feel pressure to offer bell/Meadows right away?

 

I don't think the sox feel comfortable with a Glasnow + Newman headlined deal. Newman is solid defensively and has a plus hit tool, but offers no power whatsoever.

 

I'd love him as a third piece, but not as a headliner

[bmags]

I don't think the sox feel comfortable with a Glasnow + Newman headlined deal. Newman is solid defensively and has a plus hit tool, but offers no power whatsoever.

 

I'd love him as a third piece, but not as a headliner

 

And even so, that offer is more than vast majority of league could offer as their framework.

[iamshack]

I don't know, the reality is Glasnow + Newman is more than probably than 26 other teams could offer at this point. And of the others are teams like phillies/brewers that aren't in Qs market. So when it's just pirates vs yanks/braves/rox and two of the three are hypothetical, why do they feel pressure to offer bell/Meadows right away?

That's exactly right. So you must wait until they do feel pressure. However, that requires you to take on additional risk yourself.

 

We just need to remember that when Huntington comes calling when the pressure IS on them.

[iamshack]

And even so, that offer is more than vast majority of league could offer as their framework.

Glasnow + Newman? A lot of teams have the ability to beat that offer.

[Balta1701]

That's exactly right. So you must wait until they do feel pressure. However, that requires you to take on additional risk yourself.

 

We just need to remember that when Huntington comes calling when the pressure IS on them.

So I'm missing one thing here, what is the additional risk that we'd have to take on to apply pressure to them? No matter what we do the calculus isn't going to change - there are only a handful of teams left who could offer an appropriate price, and until more than 1 of them decides he's a priority the other teams can wait for our price to fall. What can the White Sox do to change this dynamic other than drop his price or wait?

[ptatc]

If we're serious about making an appropriate deal I don't believe that will be the case (unless the value of the player goes up due to improvement in the player's performance). Our job here is to make the White Sox world series champions and that means acquiring as much talent as possible. If we aren't offered enough talent for our players, we should avoid moving them until someone offers an appropriate talent level. If that team had refused to meet your demands in the offseason and then they come to you midseason with a truly fair offer, do you turn it down to be vindictive? That might fit in "The Art of the Deal", but it's bad baseball GMing. We clearly have had some "issues" in the past with the nationals as an organization, yet when they put a strong deal on the table for Sale and Eaton we were content to do business with them.

I agree. With Quintana's contract, it is even more important to stick to this. We will be under a reasonable contract when the team is ready to compete again. There is absolutely no reason to move him unless they get a deal they are comfortable with.