Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[hi8is]

Fans might say they are patient for a rebuild, but that patience might evaporate if this team becomes the laughing stock in Chicago while the Cubs keep killing it.

In such a case, hopefully fans will oscillate back once we pick someone like Seth Beer in 2018.

[hi8is]

In fact, just make them watch this...

[reiks12]

In such a case, hopefully fans will oscillate back once we pick someone like Seth Beer in 2018.

 

Theres no doubt the Padres have everyone beat in the tankforbeer sweepstakes. They will be historically bad.

[hi8is]

Theres no doubt the Padres have everyone beat in the tankforbeer sweepstakes. They will be historically bad.

I'll gladly take the number 2 pick with open arms. Who knows what's gonna happen in 2017.

[TheFutureIsNear]

The Sox will not trade Quintana without that one headliner - an elite position player prospect. I am among those who think the Sox should wait for the phone to ring now, and not trade Q unless and until they get that player.

 

Frazier is in a different category. The Sox might even consider picking up part of his 2017 Contract if they get prospects in return, and those prospects obviously would not be in that elite category. Therefore, that move would mainly be a salary dump, nothing to get too excited about.

 

It could be argued that the rebuild strategy is now beginning to fizzle a bit and that the Sox might not be able to pull off another trade during the off-season for another elite position player prospect. I fear the worst case scenario - that this rebuild could leave the Sox mired in mediocrity for a longer time than most Sox fans want to endure. The time frame for this rebuild has to be a short one. I already see fans growing impatient, wondering what kind of a team is going to be on the field on Opening Day. Fans might say they are patient for a rebuild, but that patience might evaporate if this team becomes the laughing stock in Chicago while the Cubs keep killing it.

 

Fizzle out?? We're like 3 steps ahead of where we should be right now. Acquiring the #1 hitting and #1 pitching prospect + 3 other top 100's wasn't good enough for you lol? This team has more talent going into year 1 of a rebuild than any other I can think of. Obviously as with any rebuild we need luck on our side, but we really aren't far off at all.

Edited January 1, 2017 by TheFutureIsNear

[Kyyle23]

The Sox will not trade Quintana without that one headliner - an elite position player prospect. I am among those who think the Sox should wait for the phone to ring now, and not trade Q unless and until they get that player.

 

Frazier is in a different category. The Sox might even consider picking up part of his 2017 Contract if they get prospects in return, and those prospects obviously would not be in that elite category. Therefore, that move would mainly be a salary dump, nothing to get too excited about.

 

It could be argued that the rebuild strategy is now beginning to fizzle a bit and that the Sox might not be able to pull off another trade during the off-season for another elite position player prospect. I fear the worst case scenario - that this rebuild could leave the Sox mired in mediocrity for a longer time than most Sox fans want to endure. The time frame for this rebuild has to be a short one. I already see fans growing impatient, wondering what kind of a team is going to be on the field on Opening Day. Fans might say they are patient for a rebuild, but that patience might evaporate if this team becomes the laughing stock in Chicago while the Cubs keep killing it.

 

JFC, Chris Sale was traded less than one month ago, give me a f***ing break already. It's January first and people are talking about the rebuild failing already and it started 25 days ago.

 

[caulfield12]

It's all over.

 

Pull the plug.

[Bob Sacamano]

JFC, Chris Sale was traded less than one month ago, give me a f***ing break already. It's January first and people are talking about the rebuild failing already and it started 25 days ago.

 

I would say it started in July with the negotiating of current player (and Sale) trades and the trade of Zach Duke (good thing we traded him when we did, huh?)

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Add Giolito and Kopech to the list of pitchers with walk issues. That's what I don't understand why people are down on Glasnow due to his walk rates when we've already been through it with Rodon, going through it now with Fulmer, Giolito had problems in his pro debut and Kopech had problems in the minors.

 

Heck, my concern isn't over Glasnow's walk rates, it more about getting a few solid hitting prospects in any trade for Q. For me, one of Bell or Meadows has to be in the deal with Glasnow.

To me it's not even Bell or Meadows. It's just Meadows. Bell may end up a better hitter than Meadows but as a 1st baseman with a defensive reputation about the same as Frank Thomas ( yes worse than Abreu), he just can't be the center piece as much as a good fielding center fielder. Bell types are a dime a dozen as we have seen on the market this year.

Edited January 1, 2017 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Kyyle23]

I would say it started in July with the negotiating of current player (and Sale) trades and the trade of Zach Duke (good thing we traded him when we did, huh?)

 

That's nice but Hahn told us all we will know what direction they are going with the first move of the offseason. I'm not gonna pick nit about it, the point is people need to relax and stop with the impatience and doomsday declarations. Strap in, it's gonna be a bumpy ride

[GreatScott82]

JFC, Chris Sale was traded less than one month ago, give me a f***ing break already. It's January first and people are talking about the rebuild failing already and it started 25 days ago.

Yes. We all need to be patient here. Very, very patient. They traded 2 of their top 3 chips at the winter meetings. They left the winter meetings leaving a dialogue open for the services of Q among others. Hahn isn't going to just give Q away. He indeed wants a return similar to what they got back for the Sale trade. That's a teams #1 prospect, a #3 or 4 and two additional prospects in their top 20. Seems fair to me. I think one of the Pirates or Yankees will cave soon. I'm calling it now: the Yankees will eventually cave and we will ALL be extremely happy with the return.

[iamshack]

That's nice but Hahn told us all we will know what direction they are going with the first move of the offseason. I'm not gonna pick nit about it, the point is people need to relax and stop with the impatience and doomsday declarations. Strap in, it's gonna be a bumpy ride

Yeah, nothing is fizzling...it's just a matter of it being a loooooonngg process that will be a struggle to be patient through.

 

Just wait til AFTER the Q trade...then we'll really all be twiddling our thumbs.

[BlackSox13]

To me it's not even Bell or Meadows. It's just Meadows. Bell may end up a better hitter than Meadows but as a 1st baseman with a defensive reputation about the same as Frank Thomas ( yes worse than Abreu), he just can't be the center piece as much as a good fielding center fielder. Bell types are a dime a dozen as we have seen on the market this year.

Agree with ya about Meadows but disagree on Bell. Hitters like Bell (BA/OBP/Power/Switch hitter )are not a dime a dozen, not to mention how much would a hitter like him cost in FA? I don't get the knock on Bell's defense either since from what I've read he made improvements last year defensively. If Abreu can play a passable 1b I see no reason why Bell couldn't, in time.

 

Eh, it's probably all for naught anyway since it really sounds like Pitt wants to keep both Meadows and Bell for the upcoming season and that makes the trade much more difficult to accomplish. I'm hoping another team such as the Rockies, Yanks or Cubs step up as serious trade partners. I really like the hitting prospects those three teams have.

 

 

 

 

[TheFutureIsNear]

Agree with ya about Meadows but disagree on Bell. Hitters like Bell (BA/OBP/Power/Switch hitter )are not a dime a dozen, not to mention how much would a hitter like him cost in FA? I don't get the knock on Bell's defense either since from what I've read he made improvements last year defensively. If Abreu can play a passable 1b I see no reason why Bell couldn't, in time.

 

Eh, it's probably all for naught anyway since it really sounds like Pitt wants to keep both Meadows and Bell for the upcoming season and that makes the trade much more difficult to accomplish. I'm hoping another team such as the Rockies, Yanks or Cubs step up as serious trade partners. I really like the hitting prospects those three teams have.

 

The problem is that Bell's power is pretty mediocre....unless he makes adjustments to his swing he's looking like 15-20 HR's with an SLG% below .450. That doesn't make him a bad player, but when he's limited to 1B/DH I think there are legit questions about what exactly Bell's value should be. I personally wouldn't want him as the top hitting prospect back for Q either.

[Con te Giolito]

Bell and Keller as headliners would he fine by me. Not as sure about Bell and Glasnow leading a deal, but I'd still probably take that as well as long as the Pirates weren't to resist much on the low ranked guys the Sox scouts have identified or the Pirates tossed in Newman.

 

Glasnow has a lot of baggage with that walk rate. It hasn't gone down much at all in all his years in their system and if he cannot correct it it puts his ceiling as a high leverage reliever. If you want to compare hypothetical Pirates returns with the Sale haul I would seriously put Glasnow closer to Basabe value-wise than I would Kopech. Unless the Sox see a magic fix Glasnow is more of a third piece than he is a headliner.

 

It sucks because Meadows, Keller, Bell and Newman are all guys I want and they have a lot of interesting depth pieces the Sox could pick through as well. Bell and Meadows are both clear headliners for me and Keller is not far off from those two. Newman is a step back but from those 3 but he's about as solid a 2nd piece as I would expect coming back. If I had any faith in Glasnow at all a Newman + Glasnow deal would have a lot of appeal by itself.

[maggsmaggs]

Bell and Keller as headliners would he fine by me. Not as sure about Bell and Glasnow leading a deal, but I'd still probably take that as well as long as the Pirates weren't to resist much on the low ranked guys the Sox scouts have identified or the Pirates tossed in Newman.

 

Glasnow has a lot of baggage with that walk rate. It hasn't gone down much at all in all his years in their system and if he cannot correct it it puts his ceiling as a high leverage reliever. If you want to compare hypothetical Pirates returns with the Sale haul I would seriously put Glasnow closer to Basabe value-wise than I would Kopech. Unless the Sox see a magic fix Glasnow is more of a third piece than he is a headliner.

 

It sucks because Meadows, Keller, Bell and Newman are all guys I want and they have a lot of interesting depth pieces the Sox could pick through as well. Bell and Meadows are both clear headliners for me and Keller is not far off from those two. Newman is a step back but from those 3 but he's about as solid a 2nd piece as I would expect coming back. If I had any faith in Glasnow at all a Newman + Glasnow deal would have a lot of appeal by itself.

A consensus top-10 prospect in baseball is a third piece?

[Jerksticks]

A consensus top-10 prospect in baseball is a third piece?

I see. So Rick or any GMs are only allowed to make trades that value players using BA rankings.

 

Rick: We don't like Glasnow

Hutch: Neither do we, that's why we want Quintana

Rick: Exactly so give us Meadows.

Hutch: But Glasnow is top 10. You're getting fair value.

Rick: Yea but he sucks.

Hutch: So? Top 10. It's fair.

Rick: Yea but he looks timid out there, MLB players lit him up AND he has no control.

Hutch: That's why we don't want him

Rick: Then why do you think you can get Quintana for him?

Hutch: Look at his prospect ranking. Fair value. You're not allowed to disagree. Message board rules

Rick: Silly me. I always forget.

[maggsmaggs]

I see. So Rick or any GMs are only allowed to make trades that value players using BA rankings.

 

Rick: We don't like Glasnow

Hutch: Neither do we, that's why we want Quintana

Rick: Exactly so give us Meadows.

Hutch: But Glasnow is top 10. You're getting fair value.

Rick: Yea but he sucks.

Hutch: So? Top 10. It's fair.

Rick: Yea but he looks timid out there, MLB players lit him up AND he has no control.

Hutch: That's why we don't want him

Rick: Then why do you think you can get Quintana for him?

Hutch: Look at his prospect ranking. Fair value. You're not allowed to disagree. Message board rules

Rick: Silly me. I always forget.

(1) It's not just BA's rankings.

(2) These scouting services' rankings are based talking to scouts and coaches in the various leagues.

(3) I never said a deal had to be made using prospect rankings.

 

My only point is that a consensus top-10 prospect in all of baseball is not a third piece.

[GGajewski18]

(1) It's not just BA's rankings.

(2) These scouting services' rankings are based talking to scouts and coaches in the various leagues.

(3) I never said a deal had to be made using prospect rankings.

 

My only point is that a consensus top-10 prospect in all of baseball is not a third piece.

 

Exactly. Glasnow still has fantastic stuff and is by no means a 3rd piece. If it wasn't for Meadows, Glasnow is definitely a headliner.

[striker]

Sickels Pirates top 20. Rates Keller higher than Bell.

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/31/...spects-for-2017

[iamshack]

Sickels Pirates top 20. Rates Keller higher than Bell.

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/31/...spects-for-2017

I want one of the top 2, another one of the 3-5, one of the 5-10, and one of the 10-20.

 

To me, that is a fair framework.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I want one of the top 2, another one of the 3-5, one of the 5-10, and one of the 10-20.

 

To me, that is a fair framework.

 

Just slightly outside of your parameters but Austin Meadows, Ke'Bryan Hayes, Taylor Hearn, and Barrett Barnes? To me, if the Pirates wouldn't do that I don't think there is a deal to be made. If it's not Meadows then I would take a deal from another team if possible. Bell and Newman are fine prospects in their own right, but we need a better hitting prospect than those 2 back for Q.

[Balta1701]

Just slightly outside of your parameters but Austin Meadows, Ke'Bryan Hayes, Taylor Hearn, and Barrett Barnes? To me, if the Pirates wouldn't do that I don't think there is a deal to be made. If it's not Meadows then I would take a deal from another team if possible. Bell and Newman are fine prospects in their own right, but we need a better hitting prospect than those 2 back for Q.

Give me Diaz instead of Barnes, because of the position he plays?

[beautox]

I want one of the top 2, another one of the 3-5, one of the 5-10, and one of the 10-20.

 

To me, that is a fair framework.

 

I would be for Glasnow, Bell, Hayes & Hearn if Meadows if truly untouchable. Even with Glasnow's "warts" if there is a system that could get the most out of him it is the sox. Bell solves a lot of needs and can spend some more time down at AAA to work on his defense and slow his clock while we hope Abreu continues his second half dominance before being moved. The more I look at Hayes the more I really like him and third base can be a challenge to develop, he could be better than his father Charlie. Hearn has health issues and was the piece they received for Melancon, I think if the sox make a trade with the pirates and Meadows isn't included Hearn needs to be included to up the total value of the package over someone like Diaz and Escobar.

[Balta1701]

I would be for Glasnow, Bell, Hayes & Hearn if Meadows if truly untouchable. Even with Glasnow's "warts" if there is a system that could get the most out of him it is the sox. Bell solves a lot of needs and can spend some more time down at AAA to work on his defense and slow his clock while we hope Abreu continues his second half dominance before being moved. The more I look at Hayes the more I really like him and third base can be a challenge to develop, he could be better than his father Charlie. Hearn has health issues and was the piece they received for Melancon, I think if the sox make a trade with the pirates and Meadows isn't included Hearn needs to be included to up the total value of the package over someone like Diaz and Escobar.

If Austin Meadows is untouchable, the White Sox should play the waiting game. If the Pirates will NOT move Meadows then at some point they are going to HAVE to move McCutchen - there simply is no way for that team to play both of them this season. They have found a market for Cutch but so far haven't gotten offers that motivated them to make the move. If they move McCutchen, that should add at least 1 more piece to their top 3 prospects, making that a substantially different list and potentially adding a piece that would be more of interest to us than Bell or Glasnow.

 

If the Pirates simply cannot move McCutchen, then when the deadline of ST starting gets close, they may change their tune about who is untouchable. It may take us giving up some money to make the deal work based on previous statements about the Bucs being unable to add salary, but a deadline will shake this up. Similarly, knowing that the season is getting close may make competing teams nervous about the Pirates opening things up and that could shake up the Cubs or other organizations as well.